odog
Cable Centric Vendor Biased
Premium
join:2001-08-05
Norcross, GA
clubs: | the only bad thing....
Until BT can shed the stigma of being P2P... it is pretty hard to get it mainstream.
BT may be 55% of the internet's bandwidth, but 99% of that bandwidth is illegal  |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| said by odog  :Until BT can shed the stigma of being P2P... it is pretty hard to get it mainstream. I think you mean the stigma of being a tool for pirates. BT will always be P2P. Nothing wrong with that. Skype is P2P and it has no stigma. |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
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join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| RTFA
It's a good write from Bram:
Clearly, digital computers test great. In application however, they have a ton of challenges.
Clearly, the internet tests great. In application however, it has a ton of challenges.
Clearly, BitTorrent tests great. In application however, it has a ton of challenges. |
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odog
Cable Centric Vendor Biased
Premium
join:2001-08-05
Norcross, GA
clubs: | reply to Maxo
Re: the only bad thing....
I see your point, but in most circles... P2P = piracy. |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
 ·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to odog
But, you've made an interesting point. If 99% of 55% of the internet bandwidth (i.e. 54%) is 'illegal', then isn't the law wrong? I mean, if we say over 50% of the traffic on the internet is 'illegal', then, by definition, it's NOT immoral.
"Group morality develops from shared concepts and beliefs and is often codified to regulate behavior within a culture or community. Various defined actions come to be called moral or immoral." I would argue, if the majority of the population engages in said beliefs, then no matter what the law says, our moral compass has decided that what we are doing is NOT immoral. There are many laws that tried to codify morality, but that does not mean they are good laws (prohibition comes to mind).
So, to summarize. If everyone is doing it, then it's the socially accepted standard for society, thus, cannot be considered immoral, notwithstanding what the 'law' says.
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
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join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| reply to odog
said by odog :I see your point, but in most circles... P2P = piracy. Very true. Especially when they watch the news. Newsmen can simply swap the words P2P and piracy around as desired and most people's brains would process the same thing. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| reply to karlmarx
said by karlmarx :If everyone is doing it, then it's the socially accepted standard for society, thus, cannot be considered immoral, notwithstanding what the 'law' says. Heh... I saw someone try to use this legal defense in court to get out of a speeding ticket. It didn't work out too well for him 
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
 ·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| I love the media spin
Ok, first off lets be honest here. Cuban didn't say bittorrent was doomed. He did point out the shortcomings of bittorrent, and those shortcomings are quite true.
He pointed out that there are many conflicting clients and no standard. Uh, true. Look at the amount of banned clients on different torrent sites, the clients that cheat ratios, and prevent uploading, and so on.
He pointed out that many end users don't know how it works. Once again, true. I have had to go over to people's homes to set it up, and help walk people through the setup. There are some people who want to get it working, but can't because of firewalls, routers, and so on.
I will quote my analysis on bandwidth savings and seeding problems from a previous post...
quote:
Bandwidth savings for end user and the problem with seeding - Cuban says that bandwidth can be a problem and TorrentFreak says that more and more people are going after unlimited plans. Lets rephrase here...More and more people who are broadband aficionados are asking for unlimited plans. The bulk of the people out there don't understand how it works and don't download a lot. If the email is coming in and their webpages are popping up, whats the problem? Not everyone is a broadband expert out there. As for uploading while downloading, TorrentFreak is right on that. Users just don't care while they are downloading. If the download gets completed though and they shut the torrent off, Cuban is right. You aren't going to be able to upload as fast as you download so if you download 4gb and you only upload 250 meg and shut the torrent off, how are other people going to get that file as fast as you did?
Karl, I normally don't have a problem with the way you title your news stories, but this is getting ridiculous.
Read Mark Cubans reply to Bram's post. You will see that what I am saying is quite true.
--
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Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| reply to karlmarx
Re: the only bad thing....
said by karlmarx :But, you've made an interesting point. If 99% of 55% of the internet bandwidth (i.e. 54%) is 'illegal', then isn't the law wrong? I mean, if we say over 50% of the traffic on the internet is 'illegal', then, by definition, it's NOT immoral. "Group morality develops from shared concepts and beliefs and is often codified to regulate behavior within a culture or community. Various defined actions come to be called moral or immoral." I would argue, if the majority of the population engages in said beliefs, then no matter what the law says, our moral compass has decided that what we are doing is NOT immoral. There are many laws that tried to codify morality, but that does not mean they are good laws (prohibition comes to mind). So, to summarize. If everyone is doing it, then it's the socially accepted standard for society, thus, cannot be considered immoral, notwithstanding what the 'law' says. Back in the 1940's & 1950's, I would suggest that over 50% of the German population didn't think that concentration camps, exterminating the jewish population & the "final solution" was wrong. By your line of reasoning, are you suggesting that it wasn't immoral? |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | reply to karlmarx
Not everyone is doing it. Just because something is not immoral, doesn't make it legal. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to odog
said by odog :BT may be 55% of the internet's bandwidth, but 99% of that bandwidth is illegal Did you just PDOOMA those stats? |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
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join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
1 edit | reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :said by karlmarx :If everyone is doing it, then it's the socially accepted standard for society, thus, cannot be considered immoral, notwithstanding what the 'law' says. Heh... I saw someone try to use this legal defense in court to get out of a speeding ticket. It didn't work out too well for him What's moral and what's legal are two different things.
Edit: Oh crap, I posted a response that has to do with karlmarx posting. Dang it! |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by Maxo :What's moral and what's legal are two different things. Oh I know, but it was still fun to hear everyone in court snicker as the guy said "everyone else was going 75 in a 55, why pick on me?"
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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odog
Cable Centric Vendor Biased
Premium
join:2001-08-05
Norcross, GA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Metrocast Communic..
 ·Vonage
| reply to karlmarx
Morality is a personal judgment, and doesn't really have any relevance to the question of legality. I won't get in an analogy war, but using your logic genocide could very well be justified. It certainly has happened before, in Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Germany, etc etc etc. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to karlmarx
said by karlmarx :But, you've made an interesting point. If 99% of 55% of the internet bandwidth (i.e. 54%) is 'illegal', then isn't the law wrong? I mean, if we say over 50% of the traffic on the internet is 'illegal', then, by definition, it's NOT immoral. NO.
Speeding is illegal, even though the majority of people do speed. But if you get caught, you still pay the fine. And that fact that everyone speeds doesn't change the fact that it is wrong and puts others in danger.
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odog
Cable Centric Vendor Biased
Premium
join:2001-08-05
Norcross, GA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Metrocast Communic..
·Vonage
| reply to openbox9
You know it! But ya know... I'm probably wrong It's probably closer to 99.9%  Regardless of the exact number it is the lions share of overall BT traffic illegal. Unfortunately it is also a nearly impossible statistic to reliably gather. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to Cod
said by Cod :[Back in the 1940's & 1950's, I would suggest that over 50% of the German population didn't think that concentration camps, exterminating the jewish population & the "final solution" was wrong. By your line of reasoning, are you suggesting that it wasn't immoral? Of course he is. He espouses the theory of "moral relativism" ( »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism )where there is no right or wrong except what anyone says it is.
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·T-Mobile US
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Nightfall
Re: I love the media spin
I actually agree with you on this:
If you search on Bittorrent.com for pirated content, you'll find the pirated content of the sponsored companies, which doesn't make sense for a business. On top of that, ISP's don't want the extra upstream bandwidth to be used for bittorrent, and many have spent quite a bit on packet-shaping technologies. Of course, chances are, most people will just download what they want, and then turn off the client and do something else. The only way to get around that would be to make the torrent downloads and uploads a background service that people wouldn't easily close. Of course, there's also the issue of port-forwarding and NAT traversal which currently poses a hurdle for BT users. And once again, when Cuban follows up with his explanation of last-mile issues, I have to agree. Based upon what ISPs are already doing to stifle bt usage, it's quite probable that this crackdown on BT and upstream bandwidth will continue. In the end, as far as Cuban's criticism of Cohen's business model, I'm surprised to say, I have to say I agree with Cuban.
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to odog
Re: the only bad thing....
said by odog :Unfortunately it is also a nearly impossible statistic to reliably gather. Then the stat, no matter what the number is or who states it, is irrelevant. The **IAs can "make up" whatever statistic they desire (in their favor of course). The root of the issue is how to support BT or kill it off altogether, not whether 99.99999% of BT traffic is illegal. |
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BenPTK
@ameritech.net | Let us not forget...
That weather we use the moral relativity argument or not, just because 50+% of the TRAFFIC is 'illegal' most DEFINATELY does not mean that 50% of People or even 50% of Internet users are transferring 'illegal' traffic.
Ben |
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