moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | And I thought Universities are bastions of liberal thought..
Guess only when it suits them. 
Fight the power....unless it's the university.  |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| The Univ network must control its costs ...
... and legal liabilities by blocking P2P use. Tor can be used to bypass University controls on P2P. If the professor can't follow employer guidelines, fire his ass.
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| said by TKJunkMail  :... and legal liabilities by blocking P2P use. Tor can be used to bypass University controls on P2P. If the professor can't follow employer guidelines, fire his ass. Do you know whether he's tenured? That would create a contractual obligation to only terminate him for cause. Did he actually violate the acceptable use policy, or is it vague and doesn't cover what he's doing, as he claims? This may not be a simple case of an at-will employee violating an employer's rules. |
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bolt
Former Broadband Exile
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Charlestown, IN
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :... and legal liabilities by blocking P2P use. Tor can be used to bypass University controls on P2P. If the professor can't follow employer guidelines, fire his ass. As spouted by a corporate shill who does not understand how the academic environment works. For academics, there are no employer guidelines such as you see in the corporate world. There are faculty guidelines and handbooks, but I would bet that the newer technology problems are covered in only 10% of those. For someone to teach and research, a certain amount of latitude has to be given. Read the article. The professor did NOT violate any university policies, as those policies were written well before there was any kind of P2P. His IT people were a little heavy handed by telling him what he should and shouldn't teach in class. Here's an idea. Why don't they go back and do their job and leave the faculty member to do his, teach his class. Any time academic integrity is dictated by policy, you have bigger problems than having 100 students learn about TOR.
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bolt
____________________________
"And, you know, it'll take time to restore chaos and order—order out of chaos. But we will."— George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 13, 2003
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Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
clubs:   | A university is still a business. |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
1 edit | said by Mike :A university is still a business. Universities intentionally give up certain rights that an employer would have for the purpose of promoting academic freedom. They codify this in the university's charter, policies, and in giving tenure to faculty. |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :... and legal liabilities by blocking P2P use. Tor can be used to bypass University controls on P2P. If the professor can't follow employer guidelines, fire his ass. In my opinion, this is a situation where the university is stifling the use of a great tool to curtail one unsavory activity. Tor has many other uses than surreptitious illegal P2P use. Tor shouldn't be banned for it's potential to do harm any more than P2P software itself.
One could argue that, along with the professor's Tor education, he should provide an education on responsible use.
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Wiki Wiki
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge |
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JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
| reply to bolt
So now I guess unless you agree with the majority opinion on BBR you get branded a corporate shill. TCH's comment makes perfect sense but like always we can't let "THE MAN KEEP US DOWN."
After reading the professor's posting It seems like he will most likely think a little about what the detectives said during his next class when he is lecturing on TOR. The professor even states ; "That was why the police had come to see me. They told me that only two people on our campus were using Tor: me and someone they suspected of engaging in an online scam. The detectives wanted to know whether the other user was a former student of mine, and why I was using Tor."
It would have been nice to know if the "other" was actually a student or not? I'm assuming the professor left the answer to that in limbo for a reason.
Looks like IT rep. and detectives were just doing their job , no one was flown to Guantanamo or ordered to stop teaching on a particular subject.
If the professor has a follow up I'm sure it will be an interesting read.
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www.seabee.org |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs: | Let Legal Figure It Out
When the shit hits the fan and if Cesarini loses his position, a judge will ultimately decide whether he violated anything. |
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viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25
 ·Qwest.net
| reply to Mike
Re: The Univ network must control its costs ...
said by Mike :A university is still a business. A private university may be a business, but public schools are quasi-governmental entities. The primary goal of a business is to generate revenue and profit. A public university's primary goal is to educate it's students, and has typically been placed to educate the citizens of a particular state, using public and private funding. Governments and their entities are NOT businesses, but mechanisms put in place, in the case of the USA, by the citizens to provide public services. My daughter is attending a public university, and she is a CITIZEN, not a customer. So stop being so pro business, with that itchy firing finger, and let the man do his job. |
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bolt
Former Broadband Exile
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Charlestown, IN
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to JSRoman
said by JSRoman :Looks like IT rep. and detectives were just doing their job , no one was flown to Guantanamo or ordered to stop teaching on a particular subject. If they could have stopped him, they would have. Or at least that's what I get from the article. The only reason they can't stop him is that I pretty sure school policies won't allow the local IT person and security to dictate course content. The only real grounds they would have to actually stop him is if he were violating a law or an academic policy. That's why the "asked" him. I certainly would not like to see him succumb to the wants of IT just because they don't want him to teach about TOR. Actually, by doing this, they have made TOR more visible, especially on their campus. I wouldn't be surprised if they had 20 users by the end of the day.
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bolt
____________________________
"And, you know, it'll take time to restore chaos and order—order out of chaos. But we will."— George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 13, 2003
_____________________
»www.boltweb.com |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
1 edit | reply to JSRoman
Maybe the professor left the answer in limbo, because there was NO PROOF OF A CRIME. The ONLY people who even have a right to ask that question is the police. And the professor would be wholy within his rights to refuse to answer the question.
The original poster can't stand the idea that someone would actually stand up to "THE MAN", for in his worldview, the only people who question authority are terrorists and malcontents.
If the bush regime had sent people, you could be pretty sure the professor would have been sent on a 'vacation' to cuba, where he could relax in a cell with other so called 'terrorists' for mates.
The IT rep was way out of line. The use of TOR, bittorrent, or any other technology is well within the rights of ANY student or faculty at a university. Unlike the whacko worldview, I see a university as a place where people are taught how to think, not a place where they are force fed the corporate line about the evils of TOR.
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Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. |
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brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL |  TOR!
I always use Tor and will continue to use it everywhere I go  |
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TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON | hello mama
Hm this program sounds nice. So if I use can private tracker's still see my upload and download ratio?
Seems if everyone used this you'd be much safer on BT. |
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JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
1 edit | reply to karlmarx
Re: The Univ network must control its costs ...
said by karlmarx :Maybe the professor left the answer in limbo, because there was NO PROOF OF A CRIME. The ONLY people who even have a right to ask that question is the police. And the professor would be wholy within his rights to refuse to answer the question. The original poster is a right wing nut case, everyone knows that. To him, blowing up abortion clinics is a good thing, and should be supported. He can't stand the idea that someone would actually stand up to "THE MAN", for in his worldview, the only people who question authority are terrorists and malcontents. If the bush regime had sent people, you could be pretty sure the professor would have been sent on a 'vacation' to cuba, where he could relax in a cell with other so called 'terrorists' for mates. The IT rep was way out of line. The use of TOR, bittorrent, or any other technology is well within the rights of ANY student or faculty at a university. Unlike the whacko worldview, I see a university as a place where people are taught how to think, not a place where they are force fed the corporate line about the evils of TOR. I'll ignore all the crap in the 1st couple of paragraphs and deal with the only one that should really be commented on.
The IT representatives job is to maintain and protect the university's network and if TOR,bittorent or any other technology is or has the possiblity to cause problems ie. massive congestion, then Mr. IT is definitely doing his job by bringing that to the attention of the professor.
He is what the professor says.
"Their job is to protect the network that allows me to do my job: to teach classes that are mostly or entirely online, and to conduct research. If they weren't here as the first or even only line of defense against the unscrupulous elements of our technological society, my university would cease to function. It's as simple as that."
The professor is actually being very practical about the matter.
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :... and legal liabilities by blocking P2P use. Tor can be used to bypass University controls on P2P. So...basically, have the university just turn off the internet access, right? After all, any computer that connects to their network is also potentially a P2P threat. May as well do the one course of action that guarantees no P2P use.
Sounds stupid, no? Yes, TOR can be used for P2P (although that's got to be god-awful slow), but people can also distribute illegal files over HTTP/FTP connections too. There are plenty of legitimate uses for the TOR product/network as well. Punish the people who use technology illegally - don't restrict technology for potential illegal use. |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to TOPDAWG
Re: hello mama
said by TOPDAWG :Hm this program sounds nice. So if I use can private tracker's still see my upload and download ratio? Seems if everyone used this you'd be much safer on BT. The delay lag from encryption/decryption/transfer would absolutely slaughter any good data transfer rates. Thus, while you could use TOR to hide P2P use, you wouldn't be seeing near the download rates you could be while straight-shooting. |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| reply to major marco
Re: Let Legal Figure It Out
It would never come to that (or at least it shouldn't). The network administrator is only doing his job (protecting the network) and the detectives were doing theirs (tracking down a scam). Both the admin and the detectives were not in positions to make judgements as to what was or wasn't violating a university policy. That would be left up to department chairs or other university officals. The guys may have had "best intentions" in mind when they said that there could be a violation, they were mistaken, particularly on the idea of teaching the concept of Tor in the classroom. No department chair would ever bow to an influence like what they were trying to push.
The one thing that they might have a little ground on is the installation of Tor. Depending on what the university policy was on installing software on computers. While I'm sure that they don't have a policy that is based on an effort to stifle academic freedoms, they may have one for keeping in compliance with licensing issues. If that is the case, it was probably more of a no-no and might get a slap on the wrist, but definitely not fired.
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to vpoko
Re: The Univ network must control its costs ...
said by vpoko :said by TKJunkMail :... and legal liabilities by blocking P2P use. Tor can be used to bypass University controls on P2P. If the professor can't follow employer guidelines, fire his ass. Do you know whether he's tenured? That would create a contractual obligation to only terminate him for cause. Did he actually violate the acceptable use policy, or is it vague and doesn't cover what he's doing, as he claims? This may not be a simple case of an at-will employee violating an employer's rules. Does all that matter? In TKJunkMail -land, the twin IP Gods of MPAA and RIAA must be worshipped and obeyed. Teaching someone how to use tools that might be abused in ways that could anger those Gods is to be punished.
Oh, wait: that pretty much wipes out a CS/CE department, doesn't it?
-tom
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"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to yock
said by yock :Tor shouldn't be banned for it's potential to do harm any more than P2P software itself. It would be sort of like arguing that Chemistry shouldn't be taught because someone might use the knowledge to make illegal drugs, bombs or chemical weapons.
-tom
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"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis |
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