 Kearnstd Elf Wizard Premium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ
| why not just build it?
the citizens voted over a year ago to build this thing, what right does the court have to overturn that vote to make AT&T happy. a smart judge would force the cable and telcos to pay back all the legal fees. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
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  Maxo Your tax dollars at work. Premium,VIP join:2002-11-04 Tallahassee, FL clubs: | The courts have the power to overturn any law, voted on by the people or not, that they deem unconstitutional. |
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 AJICQ499087
join:2001-12-01 Louisville, KY
| The courts have the right to make up laws and drop laws from the books the people voted on. Is it justice? Of course Not. But foolishly the courts have too much power and often abuse the power. -- low cost and fast speed is what customers want in broadband |
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  Maxo Your tax dollars at work. Premium,VIP join:2002-11-04 Tallahassee, FL clubs:
| said by AJICQ499087 :The courts have the right to make up laws and drop laws from the books the people voted on. Is it justice? Of course Not. But foolishly the courts have too much power and often abuse the power. Justice or not, determining the constitutionality of a law is exactly what they are there for. Of course, not everyone is going to agree with all of their rulings. I certainly don't. -- "Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter
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  ff1324 Everybody Goes Home Premium join:2002-08-24 On Four Day
| reply to AJICQ499087 said by AJICQ499087 :The courts have the right to make up laws... No, they don't. They may strike down laws deemed unconstitutional, but they do not draft new legislation.
said by AJICQ499087 :But foolishly the courts have too much power and often abuse the power. What powers would you remove from the courts? -- The funny thing about firemen...night and day they're always firemen »www.stlfire.com |
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  Rob In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA Premium join:2001-08-25 Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| reply to AJICQ499087 said by AJICQ499087 : But foolishly the courts have too much power and often abuse the power. Courts don't have too much power. Citizens (and Corps) who can continue to file frivolous lawsuits causing our legal system to be caught up in stupid crap instead of focusing on more important issues is whats wrong with our court systems.
BellSouth should have never been allowed to file a lawsuit. The PEOPLE voted. The PEOPLE want it. It's THE PEOPLE's MONEY.
I hope the Supreme Court rules that BellSouth is out of line. Forces them to repay every single penny that LA has had to pay to fight this frivolous lawsuit instead of laying the fiber and connecting their citizens. -- YourIP.US - It's Your IP .. and more! rr.cx - Personal Site.. coming soon. |
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  TKJunkMail Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
1 edit | Parish President Durel lies for effect
Durel says the city has spent some $3.5 million ... Durel notes that the majority of that money was spent paying legal costs in an effort to fend off Cox & BellSouth lawyers Not true. $1.18 million went to all legal fees and an unknown part of that would have been incurred lawsuits or not.
See the following from the news item:
Thirty-four percent or $1.2 million of the $3.5 million spent thus far went to R.W. Beck, an engineering consultant ...
The city spent $1.18 million for six law firms to steer the project through a legal and judicial maze that included several appeals court appearances and a Louisiana State Supreme Court battle. How much of the $1.18 million is the result of lawsuits rather than unrelated legal matters - such as writing ordinances and an election referendum - has not been computed, said City-Parish Attorney Pat Ottinger.
"If the Supreme Court rules in our favor, it won't be that it cost us $1.1 million in legal fees. It's that the lawsuit saved us $6.9 million because the cost of the technology and hardware dropped," he said. -- -- My BLOG My Web Page |
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  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to ff1324 Re: why not just build it?
said by ff1324 :they [The Courts] do not draft new legislation. They don't draft it, they just make it up.
Things like the Kelo decision, getting rid of the death penalty for minors, requiring the PGA to allow for exceptions for physically unqualified athletes and other such rulings have no basis in the Constitution, but are law now nonetheless. -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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  Maxo Your tax dollars at work. Premium,VIP join:2002-11-04 Tallahassee, FL clubs:
| said by pnh102 :Things like the Kelo decision, getting rid of the death penalty for minors, requiring the PGA to allow for exceptions for physically unqualified athletes and other such rulings have no basis in the Constitution, but are law now nonetheless. The death penalty ruling is the courts exercising their duty to interpret the Constitution Amendment 8, "nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." They can define cruel and unusual punishment however they want. It's subjective and that subjectivity is the burden of the courts. You can agree on the ruling or not, but it's certainly their ball to play. I know nothing about the basis of the physically unqualified athletes case, but I'm sure if you read the judges rulings they filed it explains that basis of their reasoning for that decision. -- "Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter
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  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by Maxo :The death penalty ruling is the courts exercising their duty to interpret the Constitution Amendment 8, "nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." They can define cruel and unusual punishment however they want. Except when the Constitution makes very clear that a person may be deprived of life through due process of law. As a result, the death penalty is not "cruel and unusual" punishment. Look at this another way. There are 12 states which do not impose the death penalty for any crime. An activist opinion on the Supreme court say, with full legality, that these bans are illegal and these states must impose the death penalty.
said by Maxo :I know nothing about the basis of the physically unqualified athletes case, but I'm sure if you read the judges rulings they filed it explains that basis of their reasoning for that decision. And its perfectly wrong, because the Constitution does not grant the government the power to regulate the rules of professional sports. Come to think of it, I will go sue the NBA so that I can play even though I am nowhere close to being physically able to play any professional sport  -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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  T1 Rocky
join:2002-11-15 Dallas, TX
·Time Warner Cable
| reply to TKJunkMail Re: Parish President Durel lies for effect
The telcos were awarded the contract by the US government via the Telecom Act of 1996 to build out fiber to homes in America. They have already collected the funding to build out this network. However, they have not built out the network (AT&T has not even started and says dsl is sufficient for consumers!) They took the billions they recieved and dumped a significant amount of it into lobbying, to the tune of about $30 million annually »www.opensecrets.org/lobbyists/in···code=B08 So what do they get for that lobbying? A lot of political friends and new laws requiring them to collect more and more money to "upkeep infastructure." That's why Bellsouth/AT&T will keep this tied up in court indefinately. And thats also why there's a 95% chance your not reading this post from a fiber connection to your residence. 
If AT&T allows the town to build out this fiber then there's precedent and they risk losing their monopoly nationwide. They will throw a billion dollars at defeating this. Unfortunately, there's really no way to stop it. Even if the town wins the decision, they are going to tied it up for court 10 years and who knows what the telcom landscape will look like then, although there's still a good chance it will still be dsl at least in AT&T territory.
Regarding $1.2 million going to the engineer, I'm astonished that it was that cheap? I wouldn't have thought that would cover the cost of filing for the right of ways with the city. Your going to invest $50 million (I pulled that number out of the air) in a network infastructure that will be in place for 100 years. I would think that a $1.2 million on the blue prints is a good investment. |
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  ff1324 Everybody Goes Home Premium join:2002-08-24 On Four Day
| reply to pnh102 Re: why not just build it?
said by pnh102 :Things like the Kelo decision, getting rid of the death penalty for minors, requiring the PGA to allow for exceptions for physically unqualified athletes and other such rulings have no basis in the Constitution, but are law now nonetheless. Again, they have not written NEW legislation. They have ruled on the interpretation of EXISTING legislation. No NEW law has been created. They do NOT just "make it up." -- The funny thing about firemen...night and day they're always firemen »www.stlfire.com |
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  Maxo Your tax dollars at work. Premium,VIP join:2002-11-04 Tallahassee, FL clubs:
| reply to pnh102 said by pnh102 :Except when the Constitution makes very clear that a person may be deprived of life through due process of law. As a result, the death penalty is not "cruel and unusual" punishment. Look at this another way. There are 12 states which do not impose the death penalty for any crime. An activist opinion on the Supreme court say, with full legality, that these bans are illegal and these states must impose the death penalty. Last time I checked the US still implements the death penalty. -- "Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter
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  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by Maxo :Last time I checked the US still implements the death penalty. The US Federal Government, military, and all but 12 states have a death penalty.
»www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article···&scid=11 -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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  marigolds Gainfully employed, finally Premium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO
| reply to pnh102 said by pnh102 :Things like the Kelo decision, getting rid of the death penalty for minors, requiring the PGA to allow for exceptions for physically unqualified athletes and other such rulings have no basis in the Constitution, but are law now nonetheless. Of the three, the death penalty case is probably the best argument that the court "made up law" even though it is based in an interpretation of the 8th amendment.
Kelo: Ruled that there was not existing law forbidding what happened in Kelo and that the redevelopment project did not compose a takings under the 5th amendment. No existing law made such a project a "takings" (and it is actually common for laws to elevate certain types of permissable public use to a takings, like Measure 37 in Oregon). Overturning the actions in Kelo would have been much close to "made up law". Still, the "public purpose" test used in Kelo is akin to "made up law", but since there was no existing law to create a test between public and private use, something had to be implemented either way.
Death Penalty: The ruling focused on the death penalty for minors. At the time of the ruling, the United States was the only country in the world that still legally allowed the execution of minors and carried out such executions (Somalia was the only other country not to ratify the Rights of the Child treaty, but still outlaws child executions, Bangladesh allows the practice, but has not executed a minor in 20 years and did ratify the Rights of the Child treaty). The big disagreement in the Supreme Court was whether the cruel and unusual standard applies under modern standards, or whether it has to be applied to standards that existed when the bill of rights was ratified. Otherwise, O'Connor was the only justice who argued that under current standards execution of a minor is not cruel and unusual punishment. Scalia believed that only the legislature could change the standards of cruel and unusual from those that existed when the bill of rights was ratified.
PGA (Casey Martin): Ruled that the PGA was required to allow Martin to use a golf cart as an accomodation for his handicap in order to perform his job as walking between holes was not as essential component of the athletic competition. The PGA is cleary engaging in interstate commerce and subject to ADA. Unlike you playing in the NBA, Martin qualifed for the PGA tour and thus clearly demonstrated he had the physical skills to play professional golf, (and even the physical skills to walk between holes0 He just could not walk between holes without taking a significantly higher risk of death than other golfers. In other words, Martin was not a "physically unqualified athlete". He proved his qualifications in tour qualifying. The existing law (ADA) was applied. -- ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com Professional Geographer Geographic Information Science researcher |
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  Maxo Your tax dollars at work. Premium,VIP join:2002-11-04 Tallahassee, FL clubs: | reply to pnh102 So we are in agreement. The Supreme Court has not overruled that a person may be deprived of life through due process of law. |
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 Kearnstd Elf Wizard Premium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ
| reply to Kearnstd however the SC might rule a person can be deprived on broadband because a corperation doesnt see their county as profitable while prohibiting the town from solving that problem. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
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 Nuts
join:2006-04-27 Forest, OH
| AT&T Double Standards
While I understand that this was origianlly done by Bellsouth, if AT&T is still part of this legal wrangling, then they are truely setting a double standard.
AT&T offers internet service through Utopia in Utah. If they did not nor would not offer this service in that area except for the Utopia network, then it should be easy for the Supreme Court to site them for double standards and through the case out, or at least their part of it. |
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  ff1324 Everybody Goes Home Premium join:2002-08-24 On Four Day | reply to Kearnstd Re: why not just build it?
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of 10 Gbps fiber connections? |
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  komodo7d
join:2006-10-17 Lafayette, LA
| reply to T1 Rocky Re: Parish President Durel lies for effect
said by T1 Rocky :The telcos were awarded the contract by the US government via the Telecom Act of 1996 to build out fiber to homes in America. They have already collected the funding to build out this network. However, they have not built out the network (AT&T has not even started and says dsl is sufficient for consumers!) interesting info...
nope, sure not reading this post from a fiber connection....not dsl either since Bellsouth/AT&T's dsl "up to" 3 mbps deteriorated to a steady avg of 485 kbps when the connection wasn't dropping (Bellsouth/AT&T have/had "network issues" here) that kind of dsl isn't "sufficient" for me...not holding my breath for fiber, (I should live so long ) one would have to know the whole story of this LUS fiber issue to appreciate just how crazy the whole thing has been |
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