 
Voodoo288
Common Sense Dictates
Premium
join:2002-08-19
Richmond, VA
clubs:
1 edit | WoW Junky ah the WoW junky, almost as bad as a crack head  but not quite. | |
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Healbot
Premium
join:2003-07-16
Vancouver, WA
| Re: WoW Junky said by Voodoo288  :ah the WoW junky, almost as bad as a crack head but not quite. haha I can relate to both of those. | |
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| | matrix3D
join:2006-09-27
Deep River, CT | Re: WoW Junky I don't know if that's something you want to put down on your next job application. | |
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CC addict
@verizon.net | actually he wasn't on wow, he was on conquer club.  | |
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D_WeBB
Road Runner User
join:2006-07-11
Inglewood, CA
| said by Voodoo288 :ah the WoW junky, almost as bad as a crack head but not quite. Well id say it is. Its pretty sad sometimes. | |
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rudnicke
Premium
join:2004-10-23
Rantoul, IL | Here it comes again Another debate on whether it's legal or not. Sit back and enjoy the ride. | |
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Re: Here it comes again said by rudnicke :Another debate on whether it's legal or not. Sit back and enjoy the ride. Upon reflection, I do not wish to post. Take me back!
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TheGlobalMind.com | Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? | Angus the IT Chap | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| said by rudnicke :Another debate on whether it's legal or not. Sit back and enjoy the ride. The quirk here is that he was using a public hot spot. Could it possibly be illegal to use a public hot spot after hours? I'd say no, but who knows what the legal system thinks about it. | |
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Ark
join:2002-06-08
Hudsonville, MI
 ·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Here it comes again Once I had a flat tire in the middle of nowhere on a borrowed car, and the spare tire only just barely fit on because the lug nuts could only get a single turn into the threads for some reason. A friendly cop who happened to stop and talk to us and keep his lights on to warn traffic not to hit us while changing the tire told us if it wasn't very drivable, we were free to limp the car up to a nearby elementary school and park it there overnight. If we left it on the side of the road, it would get ticketed and towed unless it was completely off the asphalt, which is impossible with the big snow banks at that time of the year.
I'm sure the school wasn't opened at 1:00 am, but it was a public school and thus the parking lot was public space for anybody to use legally. I really don't see how a public library could claim any differently on any public service they offer. If the doors are closed and locked, you can't go in, if the WiFi is turned off, you can't use it. If the parking lot is gated off and closed, you can't park there. If the stuff is open and public, you're free to use it. | |
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AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
Premium
join:2001-05-12
ß | Re: Here it comes again Incorrect. Just because a cop tells you ok does not mean it is OK.
To that end, many schools are "No Trespass" between the housrs of x and y.
Same with MANY "public" spaces. | |
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Ark
join:2002-06-08
Hudsonville, MI | Re: Here it comes again I think we'd have to assume that unless there WAS a no trespassing sign, that such a sign doesn't exist. The default for a public space is that it is public. | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs: | Re: Here it comes again I work in Florida's Department of Correction Central Office. There are no "No Trespassing" signs, but if you are found inside the building without a badge you can be arrested for trespassing, even if you work there. | |
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Ark
join:2002-06-08
Hudsonville, MI
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Here it comes again Is somebody checking badges at the door? Is there a front desk? I'd say that if it's like a police department, you can go there and park in their parking lot and walk inside and talk to somebody at a desk. No, you don't just roam freely around the building, but it's clear there is a line between the public and non-public parts of buildings like that. Just like even when a public library is opened during the day, you don't walk behind the counter to where the librarian is just because it's a public building. | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| Re: Here it comes again said by Ark :Is somebody checking badges at the door? Is there a front desk? There are places to badge in at the doors. The front door has a security guard, but the other doors do not. It's real easy to just ride in with someone else. | |
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Ark
join:2002-06-08
Hudsonville, MI
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Here it comes again
I'd call that similar to a no trespassing sign then. Guards at the front doors don't mean you can sneak around to a back door, just like a no hunting sign posted on your property near the road doesn't mean you can sneak around into the forest from behind and shoot anything you want. | |
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LegalEagal
@reuters.com
| Um, no. The offence of "tresspass" requires an agent of the owner of the property to inform you that you must leave the property, and then you must decline to leave before any offence is committed. Signs and proclamations are worthless, and if you leave when you are told you have committed no offence. | |
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ROCINANTE 2112
Original Member 007
join:1999-06-29
Hartsdale, NY
clubs:
| Re: Here it comes again On the tort side, don't signs matter?
For example, if someone decides to ignore no trespassing and other warning signs on a property and he gets hurt on that property, the owners would not be liable because the trespasser was not invited.
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CRUNCH THIS! | |
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| | | | dc4072
join:2000-09-12
Ashburn, VA
| said by AnonProxy :Incorrect. Just because a cop tells you ok does not mean it is OK. To that end, many schools are "No Trespass" between the housrs of x and y. Same with MANY "public" spaces. Gee I thought cops enforce the law ? | |
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moocow1200
@insightns.com
| If this guy works his Tax dollars help to fund that library and the library's Wi-fi connection I see no reason why he should not be able to use it whenever he wants. If it was a private organization like a hotel or restaurant I could see where the problem would be but anything public should be for use by the public. | |
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| Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| said by rudnicke :Another debate on whether it's legal or not. Who cares if it's legal or not. The police should either charge him with something, or give him his property back...even if he's not really deserving of it. | |
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| | grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY | Re: Here it comes again I think the problem here might be more that it is illegal to use Public Library wifi for games and such although I am not sure if it actually is. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| Re: Could have been handled better said by Nightfall :Its reasons like this that the demand for network admins and engineers should be higher. Basic setup of a AP should be easy. Yea but this is as common-sense as insisting on people installing locks on their doors. No way anyone is going to do that!
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| | | ender7074
join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Could have been handled better Being ignorant of how to secure your AP is not an excuse. There's pleanty of info on how to do this and the problem is not a new one. In fact, there's probably books about it in the library where this happened. The guy shouldnt have been leaching a net connection but the other side shares half the blame. The "stupid user" excuse is tired. If you want the technology, take the hour it requires to learn how to use it properly. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Could have been handled better said by ender7074 :Being ignorant of how to secure your AP is not an excuse. There's pleanty of info on how to do this and the problem is not a new one. In fact, there's probably books about it in the library where this happened. The silly part of this is that a $10 plug in electric timer which automatically turns on and off the AP would have prevented this problem from occurring in the first place.
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blueeyesm
join:2003-09-05
Waterloo, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| said by ender7074 :Being ignorant of how to secure your AP is not an excuse. Librarians, ironically, have much more to do than to read books. the librarians I have met tend to be more luddite than technical. The know the stuff on the screen can show what they want from their inventory, but have no clue about how its done technically.
I dare say it would be up to whomever installed it for the library to have ensured the security features were set up. | |
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jesuslovesmorons
@ameritech.net
| Re: Could have been handled better said by blueeyesm :said by ender7074 :Being ignorant of how to secure your AP is not an excuse. Librarians, ironically, have much more to do than to read books. the librarians I have met tend to be more luddite than technical. The know the stuff on the screen can show what they want from their inventory, but have no clue about how its done technically. I dare say it would be up to whomever installed it for the library to have ensured the security features were set up. No, it is up to the people who use it to fix it. It doesn't require more than 5 mins of reading on the Internet to figure out how to secure it. 
Just like it isn't Ford's job to teach me how to turn on my car or drive it. | |
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visio
join:2001-08-29
Clifton, NJ
| Re: Could have been handled better if they had to get someone else to install it, its obvious they dont know how to secure it. therefor the person doing the install should have picked up on that, and secured it for them.
and if you look in your glovebox in your car, theres an owners operation manual, where Ford DOES tell you how to turn on your car and drive it. | |
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| | | | | ender7074
join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Could have been handled better Very true! I know nothing about tons of subjects but that is not affecting someone else. Take cars for instance. I know that when I push the gas it should go forward (most of the time  ). When it doesn't, I call a mechanic. These people either were either negligant in setting up the AP or the people that installed it were. Either way, the library shares half of the blame. Even if they didn't know how to configure and secure the router, someone above suggested a $10 timer. There are multiple steps they could have taken to make sure that the AP was secure or, at the very least, supervised but they didn't do it. Both sides are wrong in this. | |
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| | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
| I Googled for Palmer Alaska. There are quite a few web sites hosted by the local government and the library pages seem to be part of the same network of sites. Palmer has a population of 5,742 and someone has spent considerable effort creating and maintaining web sites for the local government. I'm not convinced that consumer-caliber staff setup the library WiFi network.
It's probably equally as rational to think that they want the AP open to simplify access and support. Locking it down with something like the airports/hotels use might be cost prohibitive to setup and maintain.
This is the same kind of problem all public outdoor recreational facilities face (pools, basketball/tennis courts, common areas, parks). Sure, you can sneak back into these areas and do something at midnight but if you're caught, you might spend a night in the clink and/or get fined.
Unless the guy was using the AP for proven illegal activity, I don't see this as anything other than a minor infraction worth of a small fine and/or a few days of community service. | |
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| said by Nightfall :said by pnh102 :said by Nightfall :Its reasons like this that the demand for network admins and engineers should be higher. Basic setup of a AP should be easy. Yea but this is as common-sense as insisting on people installing locks on their doors. No way anyone is going to do that! Installing locks on the doors have been around since the dark ages. Wireless access points have only been mainstream for the last 5 years or so. Thats a big difference. Most people don't think about a lock on the AP, especially the novice users. The users here all expect the novice users to know that and think they are idiots. I just see it differently because I can see the users point of view I think. Knowledge is key as with anything else. The folks who put these things up normally just don't understand nor consider all of the ramifications of installing an open AP.
This goes to underscore your earlier point on the need for qualified network admins.
I believe many of the APs also have rules which could define when access is enabled for certain ports, which would seem to be a good method of preventing after-hours access.
k.
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TheGlobalMind.com | Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? | Angus the IT Chap | |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
 ·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| Re: Could have been handled better said by GlobalMind :Knowledge is key as with anything else. The folks who put these things up normally just don't understand nor consider all of the ramifications of installing an open AP. This goes to underscore your earlier point on the need for qualified network admins. I believe many of the APs also have rules which could define when access is enabled for certain ports, which would seem to be a good method of preventing after-hours access. k. I don't see how it underscores it. It just goes hand in hand with it. There will always be people out there that don't want to take the time to know or learn technology like this. In that situation, there should be a market for people like network admins or engineers to help those who don't know how to set something like this up.
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My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal | |
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Re: Could have been handled better said by Nightfall :said by GlobalMind :Knowledge is key as with anything else. The folks who put these things up normally just don't understand nor consider all of the ramifications of installing an open AP. This goes to underscore your earlier point on the need for qualified network admins. I believe many of the APs also have rules which could define when access is enabled for certain ports, which would seem to be a good method of preventing after-hours access. k. I don't see how it underscores it. It just goes hand in hand with it. There will always be people out there that don't want to take the time to know or learn technology like this. In that situation, there should be a market for people like network admins or engineers to help those who don't know how to set something like this up. Well the point is that the fact that they don't know how to best set it up provides an example of where a qualified network admin/engineer should be employed.
However, the individual first needs to understand that something needs to be done...
K.
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TheGlobalMind.com | Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? | Angus the IT Chap | |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| said by Nightfall :said by pnh102 :said by Nightfall :Its reasons like this that the demand for network admins and engineers should be higher. Basic setup of a AP should be easy. Yea but this is as common-sense as insisting on people installing locks on their doors. No way anyone is going to do that! Installing locks on the doors have been around since the dark ages. Wireless access points have only been mainstream for the last 5 years or so. Thats a big difference. Most people don't think about a lock on the AP, especially the novice users. The users here all expect the novice users to know that and think they are idiots. I just see it differently because I can see the users point of view I think. True.. however, there wasn't a flood of information, howtoo's or the geek squad around back in the dark ages. Just like parents are freaking out because someone says Wii's can surf porn... They blame someone else for their:
1. Inability to parent (or just not taking the time).
2. Being ignorate towards the technology.
3. Because they don't want to take responsibility and start blaming someone else for little johnny's ability to see Pam A's big servers.. 
Sometimes, reading the users manual will help. But hey, even putting WARNING labels on cigarettes didn't stop people from smoking, why should it make the library or anyone else close the pipes? | |
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| | | | grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY
| Re: Could have been handled better The porn thing kind of reminds me of the liberation of totalitarian states through liberation. Seems like the natural state of things is to not prevent kids from looking at porn when they get to the age where they start to feel those instincts. I mean sure someone will come and make that same argument about drugs, but there is a clear argument for why drugs are bad. I have yet to see a scientifically or psychologically accurate argument for why porn is bad. | |
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PhoenixAZ
Joshua
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Phoenix, AZ
| said by Nightfall :said by pnh102 :said by Nightfall :Its reasons like this that the demand for network admins and engineers should be higher. Basic setup of a AP should be easy. Yea but this is as common-sense as insisting on people installing locks on their doors. No way anyone is going to do that! Installing locks on the doors have been around since the dark ages. Wireless access points have only been mainstream for the last 5 years or so. Thats a big difference. Most people don't think about a lock on the AP, especially the novice users. The users here all expect the novice users to know that and think they are idiots. I just see it differently because I can see the users point of view I think. So you are saying we are going to have to wait another thousand years to get people to secure their AP
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Josh | MySpace | About Me | |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| Re: Could have been handled better Yeah.. or till the feds show up knocking on the locked door looking for kiddie porn on the person PC... then maybe, they will get educated REAL fast.. | |
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| | mrbueno
join:2002-08-03
US
| quote:
Yea but this is as common-sense as insisting on people installing locks on their doors. No way anyone is going to do that!
Yeah, I mean if people don't have locks on their door I totally have the right to go in their house without permission and use their Internet.
(If you are going to use an analogy, make sure it works.) | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: Could have been handled better Yes, let's make the analogy accurate. If the library didn't lock the doors at night, would you think it strange if someone went in and used the library's computers at night?
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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| | | | axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC | Re: Could have been handled better I used the library computers late at night all the time. God my computer sucked back then | |
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PhoenixAZ
Joshua
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Phoenix, AZ
| said by calvoiper :Yes, let's make the analogy accurate. If the library didn't lock the doors at night, would you think it strange if someone went in and used the library's computers at night? calvoiper Not at our library, the computers have software that makes it not work after the set closing time.
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Josh | MySpace | About Me | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by mrbueno : quote:
Yea but this is as common-sense as insisting on people installing locks on their doors. No way anyone is going to do that!
Yeah, I mean if people don't have locks on their door I totally have the right to go in their house without permission and use their Internet. (If you are going to use an analogy, make sure it works.) Where in my post did I claim that the wifi freeloader was in the right?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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AnonD3wd
| Yea but this is as common-sense as insisting on people installing locks on their doors. No way anyone is going to do that!
Yeah, I mean if people don't have locks on their door I totally have the right to go in their house without permission and use their Internet.
(If you are going to use an analogy, make sure it works.) Apply the analogy to an unsecured WAP.
Having an unsecured WAP is much like draping ethernet cables out the window. If you lay cables in my yard, would you expect anyone to connect to them, or not? Since many devices will connect automatically to any open WAP, it's expected that devices that are in range of the WAP will try to connect, whether the user knows or not.
I am responsible for the signal coming from my WAP, and if it penetrates my neighbor's walls, who is responsible if my neighbor decides to connect to my WAP? They are FCC part 15 devices, and must accept any harmful interference they receive (script kiddie, microwave oven) and must not emit harmful interference. An interesting read on part 15 can be found at »www.lns.com/papers/part15/Regula···2_11.pdf
If you have an open WAP and broadcast SSID, you are basically telling any device within range to connect. No one is intruding on your property, they're being invited by a signal that isn't necessarily limited to their physical boundary. The public will connect. | |
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| Primis1
join:2005-06-13
Coldwater, MI
| said by Nightfall :Its reasons like this that the demand for network admins and engineers should be higher. Basic setup of a AP should be easy. This hits the nail on the head.
Libraries cheap out when it comes to their IT infrastructure (can't tell you how many I've interviewed at and then was offered a pathetic amount of pay for the job). They get what they pay for. It's sad...
Instea do fhiring someone that knows something, they hire the cheapest poser. | |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| Re: Could have been handled better said by Primis1 :said by Nightfall :Its reasons like this that the demand for network admins and engineers should be higher. Basic setup of a AP should be easy. This hits the nail on the head. Libraries cheap out when it comes to their IT infrastructure (can't tell you how many I've interviewed at and then was offered a pathetic amount of pay for the job). They get what they pay for. It's sad... Instea do fhiring someone that knows something, they hire the cheapest poser. Thats the truth. Libraries are not in it for profit. Same with the school systems that hire in total idiots to work on their computer systems. The companies that get the best people to work for them are the ones that are making money and can afford them.
Look at any job in these systems and you will see a drastic difference in pay and experience between the for profit and non profit organizations.
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My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA | After Hours? HELLO!
Turn the damn thing off? | |
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TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL
| Re: After Hours? said by dadkins :HELLO! Turn the damn thing off? Seriously. Its called an electric timer. Its not just for Christmas lights anymore.  | |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| Re: After Hours? Yep.. lets see...
1. Before closing shop, ensure the following:
A. Make sure everyone is gone.
B. Feed the fish.
C. Turn off the copier(s)
D. TURN OFF THE WAP(s)
E. Turn off lights
F. Lock doors
G. Report any suspicious cars in the parking lot to the police.
Failure to follow the above closing process will result in immediate termination (meaning your butt is fired).
Thank you
Head Librarian. | |
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brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL | haha Oh, gosh this is a keeper. I'm hooked on World of Warcraft as well, but that is cause I make money off of it. | |
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| brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL | Re: haha It also states when the guy got arrested he said "For the Hord!" | |
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| Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| said by brianiscool :I'm hooked on World of Warcraft as well, but that is cause I make money off of it. Other than being a Chinese gold farmer ringleader, I highly doubt WoW is as well-paying as an offline job. Well, besides botting, but that's just a matter of time before your operation gets reamed. | |
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jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ | Check his library card First things first...
Did he have a library card? | |
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ccoggle
join:2001-08-06
Salt Lake City, UT | So what's so about using his tax dollars? Soooo...
The library is able to offer its services 24 hours a day...
Uhhh...what's the problem? It's fine for him to do it when its' open but not when the library is closed? I'm confused... | |
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Primis1
join:2005-06-13
Coldwater, MI
| Pretty Weak case All I can say is that the library had better have a written rule explicitly stating that the wifi is for normal hours usage only, or else they actually can't do or say a lot about it. It's pretty hard to come in after the fact and cry "But, but... we didn't WANT you to do that!!!!" if there was no rule specifically written stating such.
And yeah, I wonder if the kid had a library card. Because then it even gets stickier, since he then *is* an official patron of the library. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN | Re: Pretty Weak case The other thing is even if the library has a written rule about it, does it make it a criminal case? I suppose that there could be some generic "theft of service" or "tresspassing" type charge...
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tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
·Comcast
1 edit | said by Primis1 :All I can say is that the library had better have a written rule explicitly stating that the wifi is for normal hours usage only, or else they actually can't do or say a lot about it. It's pretty hard to come in after the fact and cry "But, but... we didn't WANT you to do that!!!!" if there was no rule specifically written stating such. And yeah, I wonder if the kid had a library card. Because then it even gets stickier, since he then *is* an official patron of the library.
But gaming, porn, P2P and other things could be unauthorized use 24/7.
Hard to say as the library doesn't seem to post it useage rules/requirements online.
If (like most libraries) logging on to the WLAN requires an account, then those rules would/should have been part of the appliciation form. So having a card might imply he was informed of the policies/ terms of use.
I doubt the police would arrest him without some compliant from someone in authority at the library, who would be risking a lawsuit or arrest, if they just made up some rule on the spur of the moment. | |
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| | Primis1
join:2005-06-13
Coldwater, MI
| Re: Pretty Weak case said by tshirt :said by Primis1 :All I can say is that the library had better have a written rule explicitly stating that the wifi is for normal hours usage only, or else they actually can't do or say a lot about it. It's pretty hard to come in after the fact and cry "But, but... we didn't WANT you to do that!!!!" if there was no rule specifically written stating such. And yeah, I wonder if the kid had a library card. Because then it even gets stickier, since he then *is* an official patron of the library. But gaming, porn, P2P and other things could be unauthorized use 24/7. Hard to say as the library doesn't seem to post it useage rules/requirements online. The kicker is, he wasn't abusing the libraries computers. He was on his own laptop. So that's why I say unless the library has very specific language that they really can't say or do much.
Besides let's be honest here... running a wide-open AP is just plain dumb. | |
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matastas
join:2006-11-29
Hopkins, MN
| Clarification. Dear BBR,
On this article, we see a nasty parting shot at the library for not securing its WiFi and thus mitigating Alaskan Guy's responsibility for leaching WiFi.
On another article, we think it's absurd that the owner of a WiFi spot is liable for all activity on it and the thought that the burden on private WiFi owners to secure their networks is nuts.
...which is it?
Love,
A Confused Reader. | |
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Fireshield
join:2001-10-08
Champlin, MN
| Re: Clarification. This story is about someone using an open AP and getting arrested for trespassing. Trespassing is the only violation that will have any chance of sticking here, and that's what will get prosecuted if it goes that far.
The other story you reference is regarding someone's liability for HOW the open AP is used, in that case to share music.
Apples and oranges. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: Clarification. Dear BBR:
We notice on your website some nasty shots at our library procedures, rules, and web administrator. This is in violation of our library rules. We are sending Officer Obie from the Palmer PD to confiscate your servers, business office, and URL. Please be cooperative. Thank you.
The Library Galactica of Palmer
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| Trespassing does not apply unless the AP was protected. It would make more sense for him to break a rule of terms using the AP by playing a video game.
The only way it would be considered trespassing is if he was inside the parking lot of the library and of course was locked down yet you decided to stay there yet nobody saw your vehicle.
The AP's if being broadcasted are entering private domain and if he is able to receive a signal in his car then the law of trespassing is useless in this case.
Although I think the guy is a complete waste of a life this charge is retarded at best.
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The only limits we have are the one's we set ourselves. | |
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Fireshield
join:2001-10-08
Champlin, MN
| Re: Clarification. My assumption was that he would have been on library property, hence the trespassing. If the signal was available off library property then they really have nothing to stand on. You can't hold someone liable for accessing an open AP unless, perhaps, there is a disclaimer 'hotel page' that must be agreed to first. | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | Re: Clarification. Agreed. | |
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brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL | Lol when he goes for a job interview. Have you ever been arrested before?
Yes for playing World of Warcraft outside a library. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | Re: Lol when he goes for a job interview. Go sit on the "Group W" bench....
calvoiper (channelling Alice)
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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| | dentman42
join:2001-10-02
Columbus, OH
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Lol when he goes for a job interview. said by calvoiper :Go sit on the "Group W" bench.... calvoiper (channelling Alice) And you can get anything you want
At Alice's....library? nah, doesn't work. | |
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| | | kdhamann
join:2003-11-08
Medina, OH | Re: Lol when he goes for a job interview. But you can't get books at a restaurant can you? | |
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porkchops
...meh
Premium
join:2003-05-17
Saint Marys, WV
| Access restrictions are nice...
ddwrt |
DD-WRT ftw | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| Re: Access restrictions are nice... Wow, while completely off topic I did not know the buffalo router's came with dd-wrt installed on them. I sell those exact same router's at the computer shop I work in and I thought they where a peace of crap by just the packaging.
Goes to show how naive I can be.
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The only limits we have are the one's we set ourselves. | |
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porkchops
...meh
Premium
join:2003-05-17
Saint Marys, WV
| Re: Access restrictions are nice... Mine is actually a linksys.
Also, Buffalo routers don't ship with DDWRT. You have to re-flash the router yourself.
DDWRT will support most routers running a broadcom chipset
(including your buffalo routers); and again, there are different flavors of firmware available depending upon the router.
My point being, the majority of consumer grade routers - even with the default firmware - support access restriction policies and QoS. The library's administrator could have easily access to blocked WOW as well as anything else for that matter. | |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs: | charges what law would they charge him with??
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www.LakeSemaJ.com | |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
 ·Verizon FIOS
| the cents of it... This sounds like a great debate. The offender could have likely had his own internet connection if you factored in the cost of gas and travel to find wifi points that were open (WAR..) and idle time...
Then again, he could be addicted (personality) to WoW and just had to get his fix.
Is the library responsible for an open node?
He obviously has a history of repeat abuses of the wifi connections. So is this really more of a concern for another social-addiction of the internet, gaming and personal disorders?
Republicans: lock him up
Democrats: he needs help/his civil liberties are being violated. | |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| Re: the cents of it... 2 things:
1. Do the police have the right to take the laptop away from him eventhough he didnt break the law??
2. Im guessing that since this is a government building there's no funding for a system admin to do the necessary admin work to secure the system. Im seeing soo many companies skipping on full time admin positions.
So basically, the government is being cheap.
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Fossils, Not Gospels. | |
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tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
·Comcast
| Re: the cents of it... said by hopeflicker :2 things: 1. Do the police have the right to take the laptop away from him eventhough he didnt break the law?? 2. Im guessing that since this is a government building there's no funding for a system admin to do the necessary admin work to secure the system. Im seeing soo many companies skipping on full time admin positions. So basically, the government is being cheap. 1} yes, protecting any physical evidence, of a crime (particularly since this could be tamper with) is normal. They are filing for a warrant, before searching the laptop
2} not too suprising that they don't have a full time IT staff, or even one tech for a single town library, even their county library system is only 6-7 location this being one of them. so one or two admin/tech or maybe limit time contract service might be all their budget allows for,
Obviously the library will have to reconsider their policies and increase their support dollars, to meet the need.
It doesn't excuse his behavoir. | |
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tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
·Comcast
| ......the rest of the story... here is the full story from the anchorage daily news
»www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/86···68c.html
The wi-fi was not normally on at night (waiting for a tech to install a timer.automate the service hours )
He had been caught at the library before at night, and been warned by the police "that his activity constituted theft of services and was told to leave". (the apparent reason for his "arrest" and the confiscation of his laptop)
Overall a sad story, 21 years old, lives with parents, who don't allow internet access after 9pm, spends his days at the library for the free access (apparent has no job/no life except WOW and being a mod at »conquerclub.com/ (a risk like game)) and spends nights after 9pm trying to find open WLAN's to leech from. | |
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See 10 replies to this post |
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Chuckles
Premium
join:2006-03-04
Saint Paul, MN | More sneaky! You'd think after being caught so many times this man would start being more sneaky! | |
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capecoddah
join:2005-03-18
Yarmouth Port, MA | Who Sez Who said working at home can't be fun?
This is funny stuff, the flame wars on the WOW forum are too funny.
"did he have a library card?" LMAO!!!
People actually thinking about legal ramifications... You are more bored than I am! | |
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mrchris
We don't miss you Bush
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | What a bum What's stopping him from having a connection at home to play there instead of mooching off public wi-fi waves? | |
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tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA | Re: What a bum His parents won't let him, after 9 pm. | |
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| | jseldon
join:2003-04-22
Auburn, WA
| Re: What a bum He's 21. He should get a job, move out, and get his own damn connection. His own damn fault really.
said by tshirt :His parents won't let him, after 9 pm. | |
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atuarre
Here come the drums
Premium
join:2004-02-14
Lake Charles, LA
clubs: | Re: What a bum I agree. I equate this to stealing service. So what if the access point is or is not secured? It's like saying if your access point isn't secured, and someone commits fraud, or a crime, it's the company that is running the ap's fault. I think not. | |
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Free Guy
@com.ar | Another example of the US life ... ermmm ...what life? Ahhh ... the American freedom, right?
Well ... who cares. | |
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inurenegade
join:2006-06-11
Wilmington, DE | he shouldnt get hit with this this guy shouldnt get ticketed for using wifi after hours in a library parking lot but he probably should get hit with idoling his car if he was using that to play on his laptop | |
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