haplo2112
join:2003-05-12
Charlton, MA
| Yeah right UH...VZ your a liar...
...just look at the deployment map for the state of MA, the list of haves and have nots is an obvious case of cherry picking and red lining. Just the fact that primary deployment area so far is the North Shore makes that obvious.
Come talk to me about your DNA when we start seeing the Central-Western MA area (I'll define that as between Worcester and Springfield, for the sake of having a definition), and a good deal more of the South Shore, lit up. |
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Lee325
join:2006-12-12
New Salem, MA | How about towns like Petersham and New Salem Ma. that don't even have cable! No chioce but High price Satellite for internet. |
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Laura Unger
Premium
join:2007-02-28
Montclair, NJ
| There's nothing to stop cherry picking
Of course all our communications companies are cherry picking. There's nothing to stop them. We need public policy that mandates higher speeds and access for all, no matter where they live. We need a real map of who has access and who doesn't and a way to confirm what speeds people are actually getting. These companies won't do it on their own. We need Pulic Policy on these issues with a real plan for oversight, investment,built out. Whether it is mandated federal or state by state, we can't leave this up to private companies. Check out »www.speedmatters.org. |
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AnonDOG
@kaballero.com
| Broadband Providers ...
File your form 477s today please. The FCC estimates that only 10% of wireless providers are filing this form.
Before anyone can support wireless providers, they have to exist. The only way the FCC can know you exist is for you to file. This prevents the FCC from accurately reporting broadband penetration in rural areas AND REDUCES OUR LEVERAGE WITH THE FCC.
File!
»www.fcc.gov/broadband/data.html
Good graduation speech at Ft. Benning
»»www.youtube.com/results?search_q···h=Search
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inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK | I really hate humanizing corporations.
there is no 'DNA' in a corporation, nor is there any other biological element. Corporations are heartless, souless, mechanical monsters bent on doing one thing, making money and accumulating power. |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| I want an honest answer here
quote:
Verizon has to cherry pick to some degree in order to offer FiOS in neighborhoods where demand is high and ROI is maximized. That said, there has to be some fairly sophisticated statistical analysis that goes into making neighborhood by neighborhood determinations, and we'd love to get our hands on the meeting minutes and spreadsheets involved.
Does anyone here with even a smidgen of common sense things that it makes sense for Verizon to deploy a brand spanking new and widespread commercially untested technology in areas where demand is now and ROI is minimized? Just think about it?
In full disclaimer, I currently have FiOS internet. I live in a medium sized city (Fort Wayne, Indiana). Verizon deployed Fios here and in the neighboring city of New Haven about 2 years ago. The average income in Fort Wayne is around $36k. The national average is about $10k more then that and the midwest average is about $8k more. We aren't particularly an affluent area and we don't have a huge tech industry although we do have at one time a large GTE presence and still maintain 1 of 3 Verizon call centers. When FiOS was deployed, it was done over most of the city at during the same period. Crews were rationalized to some degree just maximize use of equipment, but it wasn't like they did pockets here and there. The only exception was the southeast corner of the city that is generally considered the "poorer" section of town. They were done a year later after the winter freeze that shut down the work crews. Now just about everyone has access to fiber (apartments excluded). There are some areas on the fringes of town that may not be covered but that is because of how the existing POTS network is laid out and you will always have that.
If Verizon is cherry picking their installations, it's not around here. Remember that there is a difference between cherry picking, and not deploying in a area because it's not profitable.
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Go Colts |
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SD6
join:2005-03-26
| FIOS deploment is fairly predictable
"Verizon has to cherry pick to some degree in order to offer FiOS in neighborhoods where demand is high and ROI is maximized. That said, there has to be some fairly sophisticated statistical analysis that goes into making neighborhood by neighborhood determinations, and we'd love to get our hands on the meeting minutes and spreadsheets involved."
A few presumptions here. I am beginning to think this issue is a broadband Rohrschach test - what you say informs the reader more about what you think than it does about Verizon's strategy.
A local paper in Westchester County, NY did a statistical analysis a year ago based on census bureau statistics, and found no discernible difference in income between those towns where FIOS had been deployed versus those towns where it had not been deployed. I'd like to see similar analysis elsewhere and to have them reported. But no presumptions please.
By the way, if you look at factors like population density, % of owner-occupied single family housing, competition, aerial vs. buried, regulatory environment, the FIOS general deployment strategy makes a lot of legitimate business sense. As to detailed neighborhood by neighborhood, I wouldn't expect there to be a lot of sophisticated analysis except maybe the aerial vs buried factor. |
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Dolgan
Premium
join:2005-10-01
Sun Prairie, WI
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to cdru
Re: I want an honest answer here
The only reason FIOS was deployed in Ft Wayne and New Haven was because of a sweetheart deal for a GTE Exec when Verizon bought out GTE. Your facts and figures are absolutely meaningless as there are no other deployemnts are scheduled in the Midwest. |
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SD6
join:2005-03-26
| said by Dolgan  :The only reason FIOS was deployed in Ft Wayne and New Haven was because of a sweetheart deal for a GTE Exec when Verizon bought out GTE. Your facts and figures are absolutely meaningless as there are no other deployemnts are scheduled in the Midwest. I recall the GTE merger (six years ago). Are you saying the decision to fiber Ft. Wayne was part of the GTE exec's buyout? The timeframe doesn't fit. The information is useful because it tends to disprove the cherry picking charge, they fibered a large area ($$$), not just the GTE exec's neighborhood.
Also, Verizon doesn't have a whole heck of a lot of wire centers in the Midwest. |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| reply to Dolgan
said by Dolgan :The only reason FIOS was deployed in Ft Wayne and New Haven was because of a sweetheart deal for a GTE Exec when Verizon bought out GTE. Your facts and figures are absolutely meaningless as there are no other deployemnts are scheduled in the Midwest. Oh bullshit. You have absolutely no basis for this. As SD6 pointed out the time frames don't fit. Plus do you really think Verizon is going to plop down that chunk of change to roll out FiOS just so an exec can get a fast connection? Please.
Verizon did the roll out here for several reasons. Verizon already had had a significant in the area. We have one of the call centers as well as a data center (although I'm not sure if it's still used as it once was). We had dual SONET rings connection all the COs in the area already so rolling out fiber was less of an impact. Plus local government lobbied Verizon heavily to be included in on the early cities that were deployed and fast tracked the permitting process instead of tying it up with red tape like many communities did.
So what if Verizon isn't doing any other Midwest installs. My point was that Verizon did Fort Wayne despise the fact that there were many other areas in much larger metroplexes that could have been done. Could it possibly be that Verizon hasn't done other Midwestern areas because most of their Midwest territory is in smaller towns that would have had much higher initial costs just to get the bandwidth there. Or maybe it's because Verizon is trying to sell off their Midwest region (except around Fort Wayne) and they didn't want to put in a huge investment into an area going to the competition. Nah, it can't be any of that. I bet they aren't deploying it just to spite you.
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Go Colts |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| reply to SD6
Re: FIOS deploment is fairly predictable
I believe I heard that when Verizon started deploying around my area, it wasn't the rich areas that had the higher subscription rates. It was the middle income and the lower income teetering on becoming middle income that had a higher adoption rates. In the "rich" part of town the adoption rate was actually quite a bit lower then was expected. I don't remember what the source of the statistics was so take all this with a grain of salt.
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Go Colts |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| reply to inteller
Re: I really hate humanizing corporations.
said by inteller :there is no 'DNA' in a corporation, nor is there any other biological element. Corporations are heartless, souless, mechanical monsters bent on doing one thing, making money and accumulating power. Define: Metaphor
Corporations aren't suppose to give you warm fuzzies. They aren't suppose to play fetch, purr, love you everlasting. They aren't suppose to be with you for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, till death do you part. They are there to make money. Period.
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Go Colts |
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SD6
join:2005-03-26
| reply to cdru
Re: FIOS deploment is fairly predictable
said by cdru :I believe I heard that when Verizon started deploying around my area, it wasn't the rich areas that had the higher subscription rates. It was the middle income and the lower income teetering on becoming middle income that had a higher adoption rates. In the "rich" part of town the adoption rate was actually quite a bit lower then was expected. I don't remember what the source of the statistics was so take all this with a grain of salt. I hate stereotypes and demographics, but this is consistent with marketing data that I saw about six years ago when my county changed from analog to digital CATV. It seems that CATV serves as cheap entertainment and leisure activity. The conclusions drawn by marketing was that rich people can travel, get NBA season tickets, and generally do those things which are more fun and more expensive than CATV. |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| reply to inteller
Re: I really hate humanizing corporations.
said by inteller :there is no 'DNA' in a corporation, nor is there any other biological element. Corporations are heartless, souless, mechanical monsters bent on doing one thing, making money and accumulating power. Or more acurately and less melodramatic, they are heartless, souless, mechanical entities that are brought into existence to do one thing: enhance shareholder value; nothing more.
Criticizing a corporation for caring about nothing but making money is like criticizing a fish for swimming. That's their whole reason for existing. |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| reply to Lee325
Re: Yeah right UH...VZ your a liar...
Well, this is their proposal for the local franchise here:
»www.maccor.org/MACC%20franchise%···INAL.pdf
So yea, anyone at Verizon who says they are not interested in cherry picking is lying. The three lowest income incorporated cities in the Service Area are specifically excluded from FIOS TV. |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:
 ·LINGO
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·surpasshosting
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to SD6
Re: FIOS deploment is fairly predictable
said by SD6 :...A few presumptions here. I am beginning to think this issue is a broadband Rohrschach test - what you say informs the reader more about what you think than it does about Verizon's strategy. A local paper in Westchester County, NY did a statistical analysis a year ago based on census bureau statistics, and found no discernible difference in income between those towns where FIOS had been deployed versus those towns where it had not been deployed. I'd like to see similar analysis elsewhere and to have them reported. But no presumptions please. .... So you make presumptions, but we're not allowed to!! 
Well take this for what it's worth. It's certainly not a statistical analysis (and may even be presumptious), but back when Verizon first broke ground in MCMD, a bunch of us tried to guess how Verizon determined deployment priority. At the time we were unaware of "the Rockville situation", so we didn't consider a community's permitting process to be important (in retrospect, it may be the most important factor). But we honestly couldn't see a pattern. Income, aerial vs buried, CO size, WhoKnowsWhatElse? Nada. No obvious patterns. I mean, it wasn't like VZ rolled in and only covered Chevy Chase and Potomac.
We actually concluded that COs where Councilmembers live might be more relevant than income, but that was just a wild unconfirmable guess. |
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soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX
1 edit | reply to haplo2112
Re: Yeah right UH...VZ your a liar...
said by haplo2112 :...just look at the deployment map for the state of MA, the list of haves and have nots is an obvious case of cherry picking and red lining. Just the fact that primary deployment area so far is the North Shore makes that obvious. Come talk to me about your DNA when we start seeing the Central-Western MA area (I'll define that as between Worcester and Springfield, for the sake of having a definition), and a good deal more of the South Shore, lit up. Verizon isn't lying, that is just your perception. I visited Massachusetts, people don't even want apartment complexes being built much less having their streets dug up for FiOS.
I hate when knuckleheads make generalized comments about Verizon cherry picking. You do business where is easiest, period. In Dallas-Forth Worth area, Verizon certainly isn't cherry picking. Beltline Road in Irving is fully wired for FiOS, this is definitely not a rich area. But 4 miles away in Coppell an affluent area ALSO ON BELTLINE ROAD, they don't have FiOS.
Stop passing of your bogus opinions off as fact. |
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tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| NY metro as comparison
If we look at the Verizon vs Cablevision footprint in NY metro, we see that Verizon has approx. 850,000 of the 3.X million subscribers with FTTP. How much longer until we're at 50%, 75%, 90%, 100%? Who knows, but one thing is clear.. Verizon is dragging out deployments longer than they have to be.. the "weather" has been completely great for deployment work and the only thing holding them back is the willpower to do the work in the areas that need deployment.
Another problem is competing on an apples to apples basis, which Verizon all but refuses to do:
Fios Internet (comparable speeds or faster)
FIOS TV (LOWER THE PER SET TOP BOX FEES GODDAMIT!!!)
VOIP delivered over fios.
At a better bottom line price to cablevision, once they accomplish this (to the chagrin of their shareholders) they can make some miraculous headway in marketshare.. otherwise, it's same old, same old verizon-- while Cablevision keeps plugging away at the $29.95 each triple play for 1 year (if you qualify-- believe you/me less and less people qualify these days)... and what kind of service you get for saiving over FIVE HUNDREDS DOW-LARS-- who's to say the QOS? |
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haplo2112
join:2003-05-12
Charlton, MA | reply to soothsayer15
Re: Yeah right UH...VZ your a liar...
I am only speaking from the evidence. |
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haplo2112
join:2003-05-12
Charlton, MA
| reply to soothsayer15
"people don't every want apartment complexes being built"
Your right I don't want apartment complexes built.
Houses only more apartment complexes brings more population density. It lowers the over all property value and the tax base.
The families in an apartment complex do not contribute as much in taxes to the roads, schools, etc as the families in houses. This ends up lowering the per capita investement in such services.
So yeah no apartment complexes, just homes, thanks. |
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