texans20
Weapons of Masturbation
Premium
join:2002-09-28
Texas!
clubs: | Greedy business...
Just killed Shoutcast. I've been buying my stuff using stores the legal way, but I think I'm just about to start downloading music. If they can be greedy, so can I. |
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RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
 ·XMission
| This happened once before
Back in the late 80's the RIAA put the screws to Square and Round dance callers in this same way. After all, the callers were making money off of records they had already paid for. Only problem was, most callers did not make much money, and most of that went to new records or equipment. It was more a labor of love for most of them and akin to most people going jogging after work.
After finding out that forcing the callers to pay more for one night than most clubs TOOK IN for a year was a bit like killing the goose that laid the golden eggs, they ended up taking a yearly fee from the umbrella association that many of the callers paid dues to.
Another example of greed without thinking.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| It's all about control
They don't care that much about the money, they just want the control. They want to control WHAT you listen to, WHEN you listen to it, HOW you listen to it. They want to make brittney spears a star, and the only way they can do that is force their radio playlists. They control the artists, they control what's popular. I myself, don't listen to almost ANY artist past 1990. There are a few I like, but for the most part, ever since rap came out, I've tuned out.
Well, they don't control ME. I don't buy their CD's, I download what I like. I don't listen to the radio, I have an mp3 car adapter. I don't read the gossip columns, I really don't care about paris hilton. I am the antithesis of everything they stand for, and they get ZERO money from me.
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Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs:
| Stiffling innovation
Sounds like they are trying to stifle innovation here. Whether they mean to or not this will directly stifle innovation and competition. I do think it is right for the people who make the content to be paid but I think that there should be a happy median.
Will the riaa start shutting down internet radio sites like they do napster and the like? Maybe this is to get more customers in their speedy checkout line at »p2plawsuits.com . Maybe they realize now it is all about the customer, so they are just trying to get more customers on their website, right? Tongue and cheek of course but think about it.
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www.LakeSemaJ.com |
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Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
clubs:
 ·Packet8
| reply to texans20
Re: Greedy business...
said by texans20  :Just killed Shoutcast. I've been buying my stuff using stores the legal way, but I think I'm just about to start downloading music. If they can be greedy, so can I. DAMN took the words right out of my mouth... as soon as I heard of this I thought of shoutcast...
I use to listen to shoutcast about 80 hours of a week.. but hardly any now that I have XM and I listen to it at home and in the car.
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
1 edit | Oh well.
I submitted a much more detailed story a several hours ago with citations directly from those affected, not "radio ink", a broadcast trade rag.
He're's what it said:
said by me three hours ago :
RIAA-lobbied Copyright Royalty Board effectively increases Webcasting royalties 1,000%, threatens to bankrupt independent Internet Radio Operators.
From Kurt Hanson's Radio And Internet Newsletter (RAIN) comes news that the Library of Congress' Copyright Royalty Board, which sets the rates that Internet broadcasters pay for the rights to play music on the Internet, has retroactively set a new rate schedule for 2006 which amounts to 125% or more of even the best-run webcaster's monthly income.
Radio Paradise's Bill Goldsmith, who is staring at an increase from $5,000 to over $50,000 a month, reacts:
"Maybe I'm just a hopeless optimist, but I find it hard to believe that a decision as thunderingly misguided as this one will stand. This royalty structure would wipe out an entire class of businesses: small independent webcasters such as myself and my wife, who operate Radio Paradise.
Our obligation under this rate structure would be equal to over 125% of our total income. There is no practical way for us to increase our income so dramatically as to render that affordable.
What makes our operation so different from satellite services like XM & Sirius, who pay royalties based on a percentage of their revenue (as we have been doing up to this point)? Sadly, the only thing I can think of that sets us apart is they can afford squadrons of attorneys to defend themselves against the predatory attacks of the major music conglomerates, and we cannot.
That's a truly sad — and deeply un-American — state of affairs. I can only hope that the copyright board recognizes their error in time for the business that I have devoted 7 years of love, sweat, time, and energy building up is torn to pieces by the wolves of the music industry. " Outfits like Live365 and AOL's Shoutcast are also affected. Some quick math comes up with a monthly Shoutcast tribute to the RIAA's SoundExchange coffer of around $1.65 million, or about $20 million for 2006.
Now is probably a good time to contact your favorite webcaster and give them a little encouragement. They're going to need every bit they can get. Even the smallest hobby operation is on the hook for $500 a year or more.
This happened five years ago as well (go look for discussion here in 2002) and it set up the pay-per-slot-per-song system, which the RIAA then used to bargain individual percentage-of-income deals with webcasters. Let's hope that happens again this time.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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Ericthorn
It only hurts when I laugh
Premium
join:2001-08-10
Paragould, AR
clubs:
 ·Paragould.net
| reply to texans20
Re: Greedy business...
I wonder how much of that money will actually make it to the artists who actually make the music, rather than going to the RIAA who does, imho, absolutely nothing worthwhile.
The other day, I went and bought some CD's. I haven't done that in a few years. But, these were groups I really appreciate for making music. Not the 'one song on the CD I like' type, but the ones I can put the CD in my player and let it roll.
It's decisions like this that only affirm the idea of the RIAA supporting it's own ass. It seems they'll do anything to put a buck in their pocket while taking it from others who aren't making more than what would buy a happy meal at Mickey D's.
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | reply to texans20
thank god EVE-Radio is outside the US where the RIAA cant get them. but i wonder how will the RIAA get all the personally run shoutcast stations who dont make any money.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Rates don't look that bad
These web sites get ad revenue and if they can't cover their costs, a shakeout is the usual result. Does the internet NEED 1000 different internet music streaming operations when a dozen will do?
2007 - $.0011 per performance
2008 - $.0014 per performance
2009 - $.0018 per performance
2010 - $.0019 per performance
Oxenford explains that the 2007 rate essentially translates to one-tenth of a penny per song per listener. Extrapolating from there, a webcaster will have to pay one penny for every ten listeners who hear a single song.
For noncommercial webcasters, the fee will be $500 per channel, for up to 159,140 Aggregate Tuning Hours (one listener listening for an hour) per month. Noncommercial webcasters who exceed that level must pay the commercial rate for all listening in excess of that limit.
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to Subaru
Re: Greedy business...
said by Subaru :I use to listen to shoutcast about 80 hours of a week.. but hardly any now that I have XM and I listen to it at home and in the car. I have Sirius for the car and use them on the internet when not playing my own CD music loaded on the PC.
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My BLOG
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elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO
·Mediacom
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Rates don't look that bad
said by TKJunkMail :These web sites get ad revenue and if they can't cover their costs, a shakeout is the usual result. Does the internet NEED 1000 different internet music streaming operations when a dozen will do? 2007 - $.0011 per performance
2008 - $.0014 per performance
2009 - $.0018 per performance
2010 - $.0019 per performance
Oxenford explains that the 2007 rate essentially translates to one-tenth of a penny per song per listener. Extrapolating from there, a webcaster will have to pay one penny for every ten listeners who hear a single song.
For noncommercial webcasters, the fee will be $500 per channel, for up to 159,140 Aggregate Tuning Hours (one listener listening for an hour) per month. Noncommercial webcasters who exceed that level must pay the commercial rate for all listening in excess of that limit. not all have ad revenue
an internet radio i used to DJ for we could barely pay our bandwidth bills with what little we got from ads and donations
and we had 500 slots for wile and they were always filled on the weekends |
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shane349
Premium
join:2005-03-21
Delta, OH
·buckeye cable
| reply to TKJunkMail
do you need a 1000 different channels on your tv when a dozen will do? i think not! otherwise we would all have VHF tv's still with no digital cable, satellite, HDTV.. all of those things. and i bet you that every internet radio station has something unique about it, not one the same. they may play the same genre, but i have yet to find a rock station that i like more than chronix radio. before you know it, the RIAA will charge royalties to play mp3's in your car and your pc! |
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elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO
·Mediacom
| said by shane349 :do you need a 1000 different channels on your tv when a dozen will do? i think not! otherwise we would all have VHF tv's still with no digital cable, satellite, HDTV.. all of those things. and i bet you that every internet radio station has something unique about it, not one the same. they may play the same genre, but i have yet to find a rock station that i like more than chronix radio. before you know it, the RIAA will charge royalties to play mp3's in your car and your pc! they tryed that a few years back and got shot down pretty fast
there line was the radio in the car is for the driver only and that any one else listing had to pay a fee |
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BigVe
join:2005-07-15
Gulliver, MI | There is no end.........
to record industry greed is there? |
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RideRed
Vista needs a popup blocker for Vista
Premium
join:2005-06-18
USA
1 edit | They're stupid
These record dopes bribe radio stations to get airplay of their crappy artists yet will kill internet radio, the only ones willing to play anything that's not top 40.
Beyond stupid. Internet radio is free advertising so people can go buy the music. Internet radio is where I first heard bands like The Fratellis (before Apple made them popular) and Zolof The Rock and Roll Destroyer...who the F else is going to play them? Easy answer? NO ONE.
If it's not talentless American Idol bubble gum garbage no traditional radio station will touch them.
These RIAA asswipes should be teaching classes on how not to run a successful business because they take every step possible to make sure no one hears the music they're trying to sell.
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There's only 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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RideRed
Vista needs a popup blocker for Vista
Premium
join:2005-06-18
USA
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Rates don't look that bad
said by TKJunkMail :These web sites get ad revenue and if they can't cover their costs, a shakeout is the usual result. Does the internet NEED 1000 different internet music streaming operations when a dozen will do? 2007 - $.0011 per performance
2008 - $.0014 per performance
2009 - $.0018 per performance
2010 - $.0019 per performance
Oxenford explains that the 2007 rate essentially translates to one-tenth of a penny per song per listener. Extrapolating from there, a webcaster will have to pay one penny for every ten listeners who hear a single song.
For noncommercial webcasters, the fee will be $500 per channel, for up to 159,140 Aggregate Tuning Hours (one listener listening for an hour) per month. Noncommercial webcasters who exceed that level must pay the commercial rate for all listening in excess of that limit. You can say the same for traditional OTA radio...except the dozen stations that are left are all playing the same 40 crappy songs. You need 1000 different stations to cover the variety of music and bands available. You get them down to 10 and they'll be playing talentless crap American Idol garbage.
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There's only 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| reply to TKJunkMail
1000 becomes a dozen, a few mergers later and you have 2 who both lock everyone down to the latest service pack of Windows Vista and locks everyone out by using thier own proprietary hardware and codecs both of which suck.
So much for freedom of choice when it comes to radio. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to TKJunkMail
Do the math. A popular stream with, say, 5,000 listeners during the day would pay:
Using 2006 (which they are already on the hook for), 0.08 cents per song per listening connection, or $4.00 per play.
At 15 songs per hour, that's $60 per hour.
Let's say that they only have that many listeners for half of the day and the overnight is minimal:
$60 x 12 hours = $720 per day.
$720 x 30 days = $21,600 per month
$21,600 x 12 months = $259,200 per year.
That's only the performance royalty at last year's rate. The author's royalty is already taking ~3.5% of the station's revenue via ASCAP, BMI etc.
This does not include bandwidth or any other costs of running the station, let alone any income for those running it. These rates have no basis in reality. A percentage of income formula, which is what the satellite radio companies are assessed by makes much more sense, and is what the Internet radio industry was using based on negotiations with the RIAA five years ago when this came up the last time.
Nobody not in on the take can defend this. Nobody. Expecting a business which may be bringing in around $100K a year to pay 2.5 times that to play music is utter insanity.
If the money were actually going to the artists it may have some merit but I guarantee you that the vast majority of those who are played on Internet radio never see a cent of any RIAA-administered royalty. They barely see any from ASCAP and BMI.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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slaphappy65
join:2004-07-22
Evansville, IN | The new "Mob"
I thought racketeering was illegal.
Ladies and gentlemen I give you.... the RIAA. |
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nightdesigns
Gone missing, back soon
Premium
join:2002-05-31
AZ
·Cox HSI
| reply to RadioDoc
Re: Oh well.
I"m glad they got a quote from Radio Paradise. I listen to them 90% of the time and 90% of their mix are songs you WON'T hear on the radio.
I enjoyed them because they are a free service, no advertising and play damn good music.
I do have XM in my car and I can tell that they are paid off by the industry as well to play specific songs. I mean, is it really necessary to play Bon Jovi or Sheryl Crow on 3 channels at the same time?
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