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Comments on news posted 2007-03-23 11:11:53: While phone company lobbyists couldn't sell new "franchise reform" laws on the federal level via Ted Stevens, they've had great success convincing the FCC, state legislators (and the press and public) that stripping towns and cities of their regulato.. ..

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RJ44

join:2001-10-19
Nashville, TN

Cherry picking vs nada

Does anyone actually believe that requiring Telcos to do a community-wide buildout will result in them offering IPTV to *more* subscribers than if they could pick and choose?

IMO they would just walk away and nobody gets IPTV in that community. At least with statewide franchises they will offer it in profitable areas, and as time goes by and costs go down, the definition of a profitable area will change to include more and more places.



Varlik
Without Honor You Will Never Be Free
Premium
join:2002-01-06
Anderson, SC
reply to Mr Ambien

Re: Cherrypicking plus USF?

said by Mr Ambien:

said by jjoshua:

So the phone co wants to cherry pick and then they will expect the USF to pay them to build out the less desirable areas?

Did I get that right?
This is why municipal broadband, phone service, and TV is becoming ever more desirable.
True but if it ever really takes off large scale across the nation the telco's and Cable co's will move at breakneck speeds to kill it at the federal level.
--
"Sir SIR! We don't use DHCP servers. We only use IBM & Microsoft servers." From there my call to tech support went steadily downhill.

--Don't bother telling us that we're too loud. Cause there ain't no way that we'll ever turn down.


marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:2
reply to wstwrdho

Re: The history of the cable world.........................

said by wstwrdho:

A state franchise could be used to insure that boogerville is covered at some point down the road if handled right.
That is one of the major problems. Not the state level franchise concept itself, but how the state level franchises are being handled.
Look at the Iowa law: mandatory buildout only for unserved incorporated areas with no other provider with 250 households per 4000 fiber feet within 4000 feet of existing facilities, and the rules only apply to providers with 500,000 or more access lines (there are 1.2 million households in the state) and 50%+ penetration in the incorporated area.
And the state board has no enforcement powers. The law explicitly states that the buildout clause can only be enforced by the courts.
(This is better than Missouri which has no mandatory buildout at all and forbids any state or municipal entity from creating a mandatory buildout requirement of any level.)
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher


marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:2
reply to RJ44

Re: Cherry picking vs nada

said by RJ44:

At least with statewide franchises they will offer it in profitable areas, and as time goes by and costs go down, the definition of a profitable area will change to include more and more places.
Costs do not go down over time in television retransmission land. With the advant of broadcast retransmission consent, the marginal costs should escalate dramatically over the next six years. There will be fewer profitable areas rather than more. We would need to get rid of syndex if we want the costs of television retransmission to go down.
If you look at the cable and television factbooks over time, coverage has gone up considerably since mandatory buildout ordinances started happening.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
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ross7

join:2000-08-16
reply to openbox9

Re: Sounds Good to Me

said by openbox9:

Not that it's relative, but you're right, I'm not a hardcore conservative...I never claimed to be And no, there are plenty of good laws that benefit more than just the "megacorps". I do believe government should act in the best interest of all of its citizens...both corporate and otherwise. There is a comfortable middle ground, it just needs to be found.
There is no middle ground with the corporate state.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

It's not a corporate state. Where did you pull that from?


openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

1 edit
reply to Ahrenl

said by Ahrenl:

There are 30,000 people in my town, should we drive down to Gilette stadium for every selectman's meeting/town meeting/school committee meeting/finance board meeting/zoning board meeting/conservation board meeting/DPW meeting etc.?
Until you show me that all 30K people are actually interested in attending such meetings, your point is null, IMO.


Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
reply to openbox9

In this case (IL) no one is preventing AT&T from deploying any services. They simply do not want to play on a level playing field with competitors. They want preferential treatment and the ability to redline customers they don't deem worthy of their "competitive" service.


openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to marigolds

said by marigolds:

the city does pay indirectly for limited basic cable service for those who cannot afford it.
Do they buy the TV that goes along with it? If someone is really that poor, I would think that CATV access is the least of their worries. Where does the socialistic mindset end?
said by marigolds:

All new building construction in a franchised city is required to give access to dwellings for cable television service.
I assume your talking about apartment/office complexes and not necessarily private residences?


marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:2

said by openbox9:

I assume your talking about apartment/office complexes and not necessarily private residences?
Applies to private residences too, but the private residences do not have to allow anything beyond the walls of the building and the cable company has to make reasonable modifications to their building plans.
Basically, the property has to be wired and the cable company can place a pedastal on the property for service.
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openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to Octopussy2

said by Octopussy2:

ability to redline customers they don't deem worthy of their "competitive" service.
/Flame retardant suit engaged....
That's the part I don't have a problem with per se. If the ROI isn't there, don't force the providers' hands into a money losing situation that costs other customers extra money to make up for.
Expand your moderator at work


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Oklahoma drank the Kool-Aid.

Or you could say they fed us the special peanut butter.

Or that we've been eating the Cuts 'n Gravy pet food.

None of this is a surprise, sadly. What is a surprise is the number of people who not only fall for it, but actually champion or defend the ILEC's for it.

So how many years are we going to have to hear the "It's the Geography" or the "Population Density" excuses while the USA falls behind? /sigh
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)



nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12

Golly...

Gee - it almost sounds like the phone company is in business to make money!
--
I LOVE the ignore feature!



batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

So you put your trtust in lawyers.

The Central Office I am served from is in Netcong a town of less than 1 square mile. The Netcong CO serves people in 4 towns and two counties. The way Verizon deploys FIOS is by CO not town.

Why should I have to wait for Verizon go get approval from 4 towns and two counties before I get FIOS?

Keep up the self-serving-pork and the US of A will fall farther in network capacity. Until the government can regulate return on investment, as they did for 100 years, they should not regulate services what must be provided.





Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
reply to openbox9

Re: Sounds Good to Me

There are many communities in IL that are not served by AT&T right now - because it is not profitable for them to do so. They have a right to choose who they enter into an agreement with. If they don't like the rules of the game, and the Level Playing Statute (designed to protect consumers), no one is saying they have to play. Verizon is choosing to play. AT&T wants to make their own rules in the name of "competition" - and wants to sue towns that don't agree with their way of looking at things. They don't want any competition from munis that could offer competitive services though. Heck no! They feel THAT is unfair. They want to be in the business of telling Gov. what they can and cannot do and have the governmental power of eminent domain, yet don't want any Gov. involved in competing with the private sector. Hmmmmmm. Why do they get to have it both ways? What's good for the goose should be good for the gander....



batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
reply to DaveDude

said by DaveDude:

Because you are incapable of reading 3 or 4 sentences, if you re-read what i wrote. Why do liberals do it so much, if its not in there ideology ? Liberals today seem to be using it over and over. So without a academic answer. Why are liberals being facist ? Its supposed to not be liberal ?
I'll be honest I did not read most of this thread but a definition is in order.

Fascism is when government and business work hand in glove. An example is the New Jersey automobile insurance laws. We are forced to buy high price insurance with all of the bells and whistles buy the government. This money goes to a business that makes huge profits on the money the government foresees to pay. That is fascism.

Just for the record that was put in place by a Homosexual, Democratic Governing.


batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
reply to Octopussy2

said by Octopussy2:

The system isn't broken here, and Verizon is deploying fiber and providing video after entering into local franchise agreements.
Verizon is deploying but also lobbying for state franchise law. New Jersey now has a state franchise law and FIOS is now being run in Netcong.

All it would take to throw a monkey wrench in a FIOS deployment would to have one town to make unreasonable demands. FIOS is deployed by Central Office not towns.

FIOS is expensive to deploy, and feeding pork to every two bit hustling hog makes it much more so.


batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

1 recommendation

reply to karlmarx

said by karlmarx:

Forced is exactly the word you should use. Remember, the cable/telco's are using PUBLIC LAND, to run their wires. It's in the publics BEST INTEREST to force them to provide universal service.


The phone company doesn’t' need a towns permission to maintain the cables. The town comes into play only with granting permission to deliver TV over the wires.

This place has been lied to by the likes of Teletruth for so long and hard the facts are buried beneath massive mountains of B.S.

hoyleysox
Premium
join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA

hastily written rebuttal

Putting regulatory authority in every county raises prices by forcing companies to adopt distinct procedures and policies in every municipality. If it is so good to have regulatory authority in every city, why not let every city block have regulatory authority?

If you force people to buildout in areas where the demand or low and/or the cost of installation is high, it raises prices. Why force companies to install service where people don't care if they have it?

The fact is when buildout requirements force companies to provide service in unprofitable areas, someone pays. Everyone else.

Hmm.. why does AT&T ignore local franchises? Because they lose money. End of story.

gotta go. by.


RJ44

join:2001-10-19
Nashville, TN
reply to marigolds

Re: Cherry picking vs nada

said by marigolds:

[Costs do not go down over time in television retransmission land. With the advant of broadcast retransmission consent, the marginal costs should escalate dramatically over the next six years.
I was referring to the costs of fiber optic transmission equipment, DSLAMs, routers, etc used by telcos to provide IPTV, all of which is steadily trending downwards and will continue to do so. That's the investment a telco has to foot to get into the business. Programming costs are applicable to anyone who wants to provide programming, not something that the telcos have to pay that incumbents don't.

Either way, my original question still stands. Does anyone think a telco is more likely to serve a community if they have to build out in unprofitable areas as well as profitable? If so I have a great deal on some prime land in the Everglades I can tell you all about

houselog442

join:2005-10-05
reply to karlmarx

Re: Sounds Good to Me

said by karlmarx:

Socialism? Um, no, federalism. The point is, you aren't a real conservative, you are a capitalist pig. To you, the only good law, is a law that benefits the corporation. To the rest of us, we prefer the government to act in the best interest of the people. You know, living, breathing things that make us human.
Sounds like more whining from the communist pinkos on the left that want America to live in a Big Brother state! When I saw that Hilary 1984 the zombies sitting in the crowd remind me exactly of communist liberals; mindless and stupid.

Like I have said before, anybody who thinks like a communist liberal is a complete mentally retarded moron that is incapable of rational thought. When I see a liberal, I see someone in the special ed class that does nothing but drool, cry, shit and piss themselves. Communist Liberalism is basically an admission of inferiority, a class of sub-human retards that is as annoying as that crap that grows in your eye lashes when you wake up in the morning. That is also why the communist left supports Islamic terrorism. When communists see Muslims they see the same characteristics as themselves; Evil, oppressive, mindless little monsters! The only good communist is a dead one!

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
reply to karlmarx

said by karlmarx:

Socialism? Um, no, federalism. The point is, you aren't a real conservative, you are a capitalist pig. To you, the only good law, is a law that benefits the corporation. To the rest of us, we prefer the government to act in the best interest of the people. You know, living, breathing things that make us human.
I hate to tell you part of your flaw.. but, um, you know those living, breathing things you talk about? They too own businesses and are part of those corrupt corporations. What YOU are being is an extremest.. you're so far one sided that you forget that we the people own those businesses.

All I'm telling you is not to forget that.. I know that corporations are corrupting government, more so - the parties, but we're all in the same society. Don't empower business and corporations with the notion they are in some different league.

It's the person that is greedy, not the corporation or business... after all, we are all in this world for ourselves.. not the greater good.
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy ... those who also never take the time to point out a good fortune when the opportunity presents itself. It says a lot about one's moral character." - Unknown

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
reply to batterup

said by batterup:

said by DaveDude:

Just for the record that was put in place by a Homosexual, Democratic Governing.
.. those damn homosexuals.. they're ruining the world!!! It's all the fault of the homosexual!

Don't be a dick!
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy ... those who also never take the time to point out a good fortune when the opportunity presents itself. It says a lot about one's moral character." - Unknown

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
reply to marigolds

Re: Forget cable

Where do you live? the middle of the rockies 100 miles away from the nearest town?

..try again.



Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
reply to hoyleysox

Re: hastily written rebuttal

How exactly are you determining "where people don't care to have it"? Again, AT&T and other telcos are not forced to install service anywhere. They can choose to deploy or not.



Octopussy2
Premium
join:2003-03-30
Batavia, IL
reply to batterup

Re: Sounds Good to Me

Do you know of such a town that has made such unreasonable demands?



marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:2
reply to russotto

Re: Forget cable

I live here:
»maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q···168&om=1
We get two OTA signals.



batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
reply to fiberguy

Re: Sounds Good to Me

said by fiberguy:

those damn homosexuals.. they're ruining the world!!! It's all the fault of the homosexual!

Don't be a dick!
So if you read homosexual you think of dick. Don't get me wrong, its OK to be gay.


batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
reply to Octopussy2

said by Octopussy2:

Do you know of such a town that has made such unreasonable demands?
In NJ there are 328 towns, it is an unreasonable demand to burden a network provider with having to feed pork to 328 hogs. The pork has been set by the state and applies to all.

Really, I don't care. FIOS is being run in Netcong, batterup will soon ride the light. batterup's 85 year old father is at this point in time riding the light. You people can kiss a leach and stay on dial-up.