Cthen
join:2004-08-01
Ypsilanti, MI
 ·Comcast
| LOL
quote:
Someone declared it "citywide Wi-Fi is over-hyped" week and didn't tell us.
Someone had to tell you? The obvious wasn't enough? LOL  |
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ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA | 0 wifi in my life
WIFI sucks. Its good if I'm mobile and in a jam where my EVDO doesn't work.
My place has CAT5 prewired so thankfully I don't have to use WIFI. |
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mrbueno
join:2002-08-03
US
1 edit | This was never the intended use.
It's that simple.
WiFi outdoors can work, but you have to know what you are doing and you have to have some clue to do an install. Most of these installs try to ignore the fact that 2.4Ghz doesn't like wood, water, concrete, or metal. 2.4Ghz wants it's space.
Those of you wanting a working WiFi experience in one of these cities should buy an outdoor unit and get it above the trees. That will help alot. Then all you have to worry about is the interference created by hundreds of APs seeing each other on the same channel, the fact that 802.11b/g isn't meant for outdoor use, and the nearest AP having too many associations. |
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
1 edit | Taipei in Korea? Huh?
Although it doesn't say, I'm pretty sure the article is referring to Taipei in Taiwan, not Korea. |
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cheesus
join:2002-08-16
Lompoc, CA
 ·Verizon west (ex G..
| Well
at least my hometown made the price more reasonable now starting at $9.99 for a 1000/1000 service »www.lompocnet.com/newsfl.html . Its still spotty as far as coverage goes though. Customer service is a joke still. |
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aglinka
join:2005-10-21
Saint Johnsbury, VT | Taipei, Korea?
They don't mean Taiwan?? No wonder the coverage is bad..
-A |
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ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA | reply to d_l
Re: Taipei in Korea? Huh?
This isnt Reuters 
Theres no editor, proof reader or copy boy here. |
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rawgerz
In Debt we trust
Premium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA
·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| who designs these networks?
If these networks are using low to the ground structures like light poles, it's NO wonder why coverage is so bad!
Theres a reason why they make 300 foot cell towers, and why they're used!
And since any off the shelf hardware can be used, the problems just keep growing.
--
You can't make all the people happy all of the time. But it should be common sense to shoot for the majority. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to Cthen
Re: LOL
said by Cthen  : quote:
Someone declared it "citywide Wi-Fi is over-hyped" week and didn't tell us.
Someone had to tell you? The obvious wasn't enough? LOL The hype and the idea that muni-wifi would stick it to the telcos and cable companies has clouded some peoples minds about the potential failings of city-wide wifi. It has taken a couple years for the pro wifi propaganda machine to slow down .
--
--
My BLOG
My Web Page |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
| muni fi?
This isn't a muni project.
"The disappointing rollout has convinced city leaders that their decision to turn over construction and operation of the network to Q-Ware was the best move because it minimized risk to the city.
Chang Chun-Hung, director of Taipei's information management center, said the city considered owning the system outright, as some San Francisco supervisors are advocating, but thought it better to turn over the operations to a private corporation with experience. He said it also helps encourage other businesses to use the network."
Is it possible a private sector company has problems with this too? |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| The reply was not specific to this one project, but to the whole city-wide, muni-fi movement no matter how it was funded.
--
--
My BLOG
My Web Page |
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a reader
@grandenetworks.net
| wi-fi
In general wi-fi works great when just a couple of clients connect (like in your home). In general the 802.11 spec just wasn't designed as a carrier class technology. CDMA/GSM networks were designed from the ground up to support lots of users, but relatively low bandwidth. Eventually we'll see better technology in the licensed spectrum (lower frequency is better at penetration). The most advanced, expensive, centrally coordinated system we deploy still has to be carefully engineered and still only covers campuses, making it work realistically in large areas just doesn't work right now. It will take time for demand (consumers voting their wallets) to really have big upgrades to licensed networks. In teh meantime, wifi is a local area technology and 3g is a road warriors only option for good coverage, but even that is getting slower as subscriber count has increased (i've noticed my verizon slowing over the 2 years I've had it) |
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SandShark
So it goes
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-23
Santa Fe, TX
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to mrbueno
Re: This was never the intended use.
We don't have city-wide wi-fi, but there are a few free hot spots provided by the local visitor and convention bureau. It's always there, but I don't find myself taking advantage of it that much.
Here I am in the white van on a slow work day. 
Smile. I'm on Candid Camera!
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to batageek
Re: LOL
The technology is fragile, and that doesn't change regardless of who is running it. A muni or commercial network has the same interference, coverage and marketing problems.
To me, these seem like the 'downtown malls' which were supposed to be the savior of urban center shopping as streets were closed and streetscapes took their place. Problem is, folks are lazy and didn't want to walk three blocks from parking to the stores...they can do that at the suburban mall and get better selection with less hassle.
So, the 'downtown mall' is extinct.
Any time you see a governmental agency propping up anything as The Answer to The Problem, you end up with this result.
Being a muni doesn't make you immune. Some would argue it makes you more prone to failure.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| said by RadioDoc :To me, these seem like the 'downtown malls' which were supposed to be the savior of urban center shopping as streets were closed and streetscapes took their place. Problem is, folks are lazy and didn't want to walk three blocks from parking to the stores...they can do that at the suburban mall and get better selection with less hassle. So, the 'downtown mall' is extinct. What are you refering to in the real world? (not wifi related) |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to mrbueno
Re: This was never the intended use.
said by mrbueno :It's that simple. WiFi outdoors can work, but you have to know what you are doing and you have to have some clue to do an install. Most of these installs try to ignore the fact that 2.4Ghz doesn't like wood, water, concrete, or metal. 2.4Ghz wants it's space. Those of you wanting a working WiFi experience in one of these cities should buy an outdoor unit and get it above the trees. That will help alot. Then all you have to worry about is the interference created by hundreds of APs seeing each other on the same channel, the fact that 802.11b/g isn't meant for outdoor use, and the nearest AP having too many associations. There is nothing like being in a NYC park in a hip upscale urban area in Manhatten with very tall buildings on all sides. And when I try to get the park's wifi, I get over 400 SSID. Plenty of open APs. 
You need to attenuate or use a directional antenna to have ANY hope of loging onto a AP. Wifi was designed so its signal dies by the time it gets just outside your house, so your neighbors can reuse the channels. Its not a cellular protocol. Its very difficult and expensive to make a good throughput cellular/mesh wifi network. You need low enough transmit power so APs dont hear each other, but then shitty wifi laptops/clients cant hear, so you need more APs. Plus frequency reuse is hard when you only have 3 channels effectivly. |
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lawrence171
Evilly Yours - Evilness
join:2001-12-24
Canada | reply to Cthen
Re: LOL
Toronto Hydro's One Zone wifi services is great. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to patcat88
If you're younger than about 35 you probably don't remember them, but to "save" downtown many cities created pedestrian malls which replaced main shopping streets. With few exceptions they were disasters.
One article (among many you can google for) is here: »www.emich.edu/public/geo/557book···lls.html
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to rawgerz
Re: who designs these networks?
said by rawgerz :If these networks are using low to the ground structures like light poles, it's NO wonder why coverage is so bad! Theres a reason why they make 300 foot cell towers, and why they're used! And since any off the shelf hardware can be used, the problems just keep growing. Raising the height wont work. Then it will be further from the laptops, and the AP wont hear laptops. Plus then the signal will go further and interfere with another AP on the network. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | reply to RadioDoc
Re: LOL
Oh god, I know what your talking about. I have to deal with one every day. Hobos sleep in the tree pots. |
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