  TKJunkMail Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Start from scratch a good 10 years away at a minimum
»Scrap internet and start over say researchers
Here are some of the "start from scratch" research efforts going on: Stanford program: »cleanslate.stanford.edu Carnegie Mellon program: »100x100network.org Rutgers program: »orbit-lab.org NSF's GENI: »geni.net -- -- My BLOG My Web Page |
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  Sarick It's Only Logical Premium join:2003-06-03 USA
·FrontierNet Intern..
| Seriously?
Whats the point millions lost.
As soon as a new internet is created it'll end up in the same mess we have now just $ wasted to rebuild a working infostucture.
Does this have anything to do with the limitations of ipv4.
I think someone just wants to recreate it for the sake of $not security... |
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  Michieru2 zzz zzz zzz Premium join:2005-01-28 Miami, FL | .
TCP/IP 2.0?
I am down. |
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  tiger72 SexaT duorP Premium join:2001-03-28 Saint Louis, MO clubs:
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·RoadRunner Cable
| What a stupid idea
You don't just tear everything over and start from scratch each time you want to make changes. Just because the internet isn't *designed* for lots of stuff doesn't mean it can't continue to handle it. We continue to do what we're doing now: modify it as we see fit. -- |- The LP »www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml -| |- Cato @ Liberty »www.cato-at-liberty.org -| |
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 openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to Sarick Re: Seriously?
Actually, researchers are doing exactly what researchers should be doing and what they have always done. There are a lot of theses that are conceived every year that look great on paper but will never be funded or ever thought about again.
Some of the concepts dreamt about may work their way into future network upgrades, but the likelihood of a full out Internet rebuild isn't going to happen due to numerous reasons, of which $$ is the obvious one. |
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 spk037
join:2006-09-02 Orlando, FL | Who will it benefit ?
I have a feeling if it ever happened it would wind up allowing the government and the riaa (basically the same thing) to eavedrop more efficiently. |
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  LaZ3R Premium join:2003-01-17
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to tiger72 Re: What a stupid idea
Agreed... It's stupid to scratch all of the developments the Internet has had over the past few decades to start all over to fix a few things and add a few others. We should simply modify what we have now to make it better as opposed to breaking a building down and putting a new one so you can add a light bulb in one room. -- Life is a game of blackjack. You keep playing until you bust. |
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 rradina
join:2000-08-08 Chesterfield, MO
| The Internet's Shortcomings...
According to UCLA researchers, here is why they believe the current Internet needs improvement:
Shortcomings of the Internet
Designed over 30 years ago, the success of the Internet is a testament to the foresight of a handful of visionary researchers. Hundreds of millions of users rely on it for business and pleasure; and it is now hard to imagine a world without it.
But our reliance on the Internet makes us victims of its success, and vulnerable to its shortcomings. Some of the shortcomings are self-evident, such as the plague of security breaches, spread of worms, and denial of service attacks. Even without attacks, service is often not available due to failures in equipment or fragile routing protocols. And its behavior is unpredictable making it unsuitable for time-critical applications. Other shortcomings are less obvious: The Internet was designed for computers in fixed locations, and is ill-suited to support mobile end-hosts; it uses packet-switching making it hard to take advantage of improvements in optical switching technology; it neither ensures anonymity, nor facilitates accountability; and the demise and restructuring of most network service providers suggests that providing network service is not profitable.
In summary, we dont believe that we can or should continue to rely on a network that is often broken, frequently disconnected, unpredictable in its behavior, rampant with (and unprotected from) malicious users, and probably not economically sustainable.
My responses:
Security is a challenge but is it the network's fault?
I don't know enough about optical vs. packet switching. I'll take a guess and assume that IP packet switching must have throughput issues vs. optical switching. I would think this could be solved at the transport layer rather than the IP layer.
Mobility certainly is a challenge but I thought IPV6 is trying to address these issues with Mobile IPV6. Plus, isn't half the IPV6 address for the host (meaning the host portion can remain the same even if you move) and the other half for the subnet? |
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  BillRoland Premium join:2001-01-21 Ocala, FL clubs:
·Cox HSI
| "In summary, we dont believe that we can or should continue to rely on a network that is often broken, frequently disconnected, unpredictable in its behavior, rampant with (and unprotected from) malicious users, and probably not economically sustainable."
Sounds like these guys must still be using AOL. The rest of us moved on long ago, I don't know what "internet" they're using but mine is neither often broken nor frequently disconnected, its not very unpredictable, and if its so economically draining, why don't we ask Level3, Comcast, Verizon, AT&T, Time Warner, etc to just pull the plug on it? As for being rampant with malicious users, get use to it and get over it, society is full of malicious users, and anything that man can make, man can break. -- "Don't steal. The government hates competition." |
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  karlmarx
join:2006-09-18 iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to spk037 Re: Who will it benefit ?
Exactly the point. some of the needs are just impossible to meet with the current internet.
Like the need for a single agency to monitor all Internet traffic. Or the need for the MAFIAA groups to be able to decide unilaterally which computers are trustworthy, and allowed to connect to the 'internet'
The current messed up internet allows anyone can set up routers, install WAPs, run an email server, a search portal, or simply host a website!
What a nightmarish world for a monopolist to live in! We definitely need to redo the internet to help the corporations! -- Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. |
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 thekiefs
join:2005-11-14 Newbury Park, CA | reply to LaZ3R Re: What a stupid idea
Its not a bad idea in that in not like we nuke everything we've learned thusfar...but it gives nice thoughts as to get rid of all the "junk" on the web to build a better foundation.
But its never going to happen. |
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  james
join:2001-02-26 antarctica | The internet isn't a big building! It's a big truck you can dump stuff on! No I mean it's a series of tubes! Not a big truck or big building. So people should stop dumping their stuff on it like its a big truck! |
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 openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to karlmarx Re: Who will it benefit ?
Just when I thought it wasn't possible, you continue to surprise me with your comments.
I hate all of those "outside of the box" thinkers I guess we wouldn't want to consider redesigning the Internet because of the horribly inefficient TCP. Or the limitations of IPv4. Or routing inefficiencies. Or security issues. Or, etc., etc., etc. Granted, I don't think that the Internet as we know it should be totally scrapped in favor of a totally separate network, but new technologies do need to be incorporated to enhance the system.
And to insinuate that the "megacorps" want this is silly. They are the ones that would have to foot the bill. Why would they ever realistically entertain the idea of building another additional, and separate network? |
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  ropeguru Premium join:2001-01-25 Bridgeport, WV clubs: | All the internet needs...
Is to kick out all these greedy corporations and make it like it used to be. Good for reliable free information. -- FWD#: 223611 |
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 ross
join:2000-08-16 | reply to openbox9 Re: Who will it benefit ?
Megacorps NEVER foot the bill. |
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 openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Riiiight. They never assume risk Yes, the bill is (hopefully) passed along to the consumers, but what happens if the consumers don't want it? Or aren't willing to pay it? Or the product totally flops and has to be written off? The "megacorps" then foot the bill. |
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  TKJunkMail Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
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3 edits | reply to karlmarx said by karlmarx :Like the need for a single agency to monitor all Internet traffic. Or the need for the MAFIAA groups to be able to decide unilaterally which computers are trustworthy, and allowed to connect to the 'internet' What a nightmarish world for a monopolist to live in! We definitely need to redo the internet to help the corporations! General George S. Patton Jr. wrote a poem called "Through a Glass, Darkly"
So as through a glass, and darkly the age long strife I see Where I fought in many guises, Many names, but always me.
Never see any good, do you karlmarx ? -- -- My BLOG My Web Page |
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 openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA | reply to ropeguru Re: All the internet needs...
Yep, bring back ARPANET and kick off all of the non-military and non-researchers. That's definitely where we should take the Internet. |
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 spk037
join:2006-09-02 Orlando, FL 1 edit | reply to openbox9 Re: Who will it benefit ?
edited by author |
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  nixen Rockin' the Boxen Premium join:2002-10-04 Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to openbox9 Re: Seriously?
said by openbox9 :Actually, researchers are doing exactly what researchers should be doing and what they have always done. There are a lot of theses that are conceived every year that look great on paper but will never be funded or ever thought about again. Some of the concepts dreamt about may work their way into future network upgrades, but the likelihood of a full out Internet rebuild isn't going to happen due to numerous reasons, of which $$ is the obvious one. I dunno... The current TCP/IP based IPv4 Internet subsumed a number of competing networking standards over the decades. Were someone to come up with something that was sufficiently superior, then TCP/IP would be replaced too.
Am I the only one here who remembers the joy of sending email from one network type to another? Or working in an office where different work groups had incompatible LAN technologies? -- Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets. |
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