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Comments on news posted 2007-05-18 09:10:15: Just days after suggesting the FCC should be defanged for disagreeing with it, the cable industry is throwing its weight behind a newly proposed bill (discussed in part this morning) that would improve the mapping of broadband penetration and raise t.. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · next


MrMoody
Free range slave
Premium
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC

2 edits

Census

Figures, as soon as I post in the Morning Links thread.

They should use the 2010 Census to map it precisely.

Also, the proposed definition is 1Mb minimum up! Go Dems! Under this definition I don't have broadband available, in fact I don't think there's (residential) 1Mb upload available anywhere in this whole semi-suburban county of about 150,000.



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 edit

Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

A law that would mandate better data collection of broadband penetration makes sense. But changing the law to label anything below 2/1 mbps speeds as not broadband is not productive. What would that accomplish? Will it make 3g/4g wireless providers suddenly up their upload speeds to something their infrastructure can't currently support. And all the locations, especially rural, where distance make 768 kbps DSL a good deal would no longer be broadband?

Obviously the cable companies are backing this because they feel they get an advantage over the telcos and wireless companies in the advertising game, if they can say that their service is broadband and the others aren't.

Anyway, the 2/1 part of the bill will never make it in to law.
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA

Or they would simply call their service "high speed internet" instead of broadband.



nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
reply to FFH

said by FFH:

A law that would mandate better data collection of broadband penetration makes sense. But changing the law to label anything below 2/1 mbps speeds as not broadband is not productive. What would that accomplish? Will it make 3g/4g wireless providers suddenly up their upload speeds to something their infrastructure can't currently support. And all the locations, especially rural, where distance make 768 kbps DSL a good deal would no longer be broadband?
It's a reflection of he relative nature of broadband. Given that the carriage capacity of the Internet has not remained static (e.g., when I first started using it, "the backbone" - NSFNet - was operating at sub-T1 speeds), it makes little sense for the definition of broadband to remain static.
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Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets.

bi0tech

join:2003-06-19
Cockeysville, MD

1 edit
reply to MrMoody

Re: Census

"The bill would establish in law that "high-speed" access means "transmission at speeds allowing the user to download not less than 2 megabits per second and upload not less than 1 megabit per second.’’

Heh, the cable industry supporting that statement? Somehow I doubt it. 1mbps upstream would clearly cause 'total protonic reversal' along with Brian Roberts head exploding.



pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Interesting

I find myself thinking this is a good idea, at least with regard to throwing out the "one house in a ZIP code" BS. There has to be a catch to this.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk.



morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000

nice strategy, cablecos


i like their thinking on this issue. screw telcos by making broadband above a set mark that is ABOVE telcos current standard and lite offerings.


openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to nixen

Re: Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

You can define the service however you'd like (you don't need a law to do this) so long as providers aren't mandated to provide said service.



Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to morbo

Re: nice strategy, cablecos

Well, and increased penetration monitoring would better highlight where they choose not to install next-gen broadband and TV for all to see....

Clever boys at that thar NCTA....



MrMoody
Free range slave
Premium
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
reply to FFH

Re: Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

said by FFH:

Obviously the cable companies are backing this because they feel they get an advantage over the telcos and wireless companies in the advertising game, if they can say that their service is broadband and the others aren't.
I've got no problem with that. Survival of the fittest. It is possible to run 1mb up on DSL to all but the extreme fringe. I don't give a rat's behind whether a cableco, a telco or a powerco gets it here.


nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
reply to openbox9

said by openbox9:

You can define the service however you'd like (you don't need a law to do this) so long as providers aren't mandated to provide said service.
Providers are not mandated to provide the service. All it does is limits them on what they can legally call something that they sell.
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Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to MrMoody

But now all of the whiners out there complaining about telcos manipulating and purchasing legislation to gain the upper-hand will have to change their tune towards the cablecos if a law of this nature passes.



justbits
More fiber than ATT can handle
Premium
join:2003-01-08
Chicago, IL
Reviews:
·Comcast Business..
reply to morbo

Re: nice strategy, cablecos

A 1Mbps upload for ADSL requires a very short pair of wires to a remote terminal or the central office. This disqualifies anything but people with AT+T Elite 6.0/768 from being able to even possibly make the 1Mbps upload rate.

If the cable co wants to really stick it to ADSL, they should try to get this law crafted to define broadband as the best effort upload speed for a TCP connection running at 1Mbps. ADSL's max wire bit rate is 1Mbps. Add in the TCP/IP and ATM overhead and all ADSL offerings are immediately disqualified from being called broadband. AT+T would need to install a lot of remote terminals to overcome that definition.

I suspect that if this bill isn't killed, it will be rewritten to be 1Mbps/512Kbps so that at least 90% of the existing ADSL lines will count as broadband.


openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to nixen

Re: Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

Then defining "broadband" is unneeded legislation. Less government is the way we be moving towards, not more bureaucracy.


caco
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Whittier, AK
reply to Karl Bode

Re: nice strategy, cablecos

Something tells me that map would not be looked upon very nicely by AT&T and Verizon especially if it was overlapped by lets say income levels.
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA

1 recommendation

reply to openbox9

Re: Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

said by openbox9:

Then defining "broadband" is unneeded legislation. Less government is the way we be moving towards, not more bureaucracy.
You're right. There should be no reason for the government to define standards for what a given product may be advertised as. A "beef" hotdog should be allowed to be comprised of goat rather than cow muscle.
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Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets.


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

1 recommendation

reply to caco

Re: nice strategy, cablecos

That's why I promise you we'll never see an effective broadband penetration map by this government. Phone providers fight any effort of this kind tooth and nail.

I think the best we see is broadband nudged from 200kbps to 1Mbps or something....whatever ultimately passes as an examination of penetration will be cooked and skewed nonsense.


chemaupr

join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA

Mapping should be a cake!

Just establish a rule that ISP provider should report available speeds per addr. Is not a big deal. After all, they already have this information, otherwise they would not sell it to you. If I wanted HSI from cable or teleco they asked for my addr to verify availability. Use the same info and make a national db and use whatever mapping service to fill in the data.


Nuts65

join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH
reply to caco

Re: nice strategy, cablecos

Cable won't have much to brag about either.



MrMoody
Free range slave
Premium
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
reply to justbits

said by justbits:

A 1Mbps upload for ADSL requires a very short pair of wires to a remote terminal or the central office. This disqualifies anything but people with AT+T Elite 6.0/768 from being able to even possibly make the 1Mbps upload rate.
Embarq has 5000/768 available all over this part of the country in and around rural small towns. Why can't the same pair that can run 5000 down run 1000 up? Seems to me the most that would be needed is to change the standard slightly to reassign some down channels to up channels and maybe give the modem a little more transmit power, and voila, 4000/1000. I'd buy that for a dollar. And if the telco makes it available, they can count it whether anyone buys it or not.

The purpose of having the penetration info is to compare to other countries. If it's not the same standard, it's a useless comparison. To heck with giving the poor telcos a break, they need to be held up to the light of the world standard. Maybe it will embarrass them into the 21st century, and the cablecos as well by virtue of the competition.

BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to bi0tech

Re: Census

No , it would not.

They are Comcastic ! They have upload "powerboost" which give a bump to over 1 mbit !

Good try though, they could use wording to fit into the high speed access grouping.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"


Nuts65

join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH
reply to Karl Bode

Re: nice strategy, cablecos

Karl, you might be wrong on the penetration map. The Telcos could use it as a tool to get more money for delivering service to us poor people living in the sticks.



Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

They're already pretty close to nabbing USF and RUS subsidies. Highlighting their deployment shortcomings to regulators and competitors is just something they will never let happen. I'll grow an ear on my back first.


Nuts65

join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH

I don't disagree with you, but I'm holding out a little hope


bi0tech

join:2003-06-19
Cockeysville, MD
reply to BosstonesOwn

Re: Census

I would think not. The entire concept here is to report accurately (or at least moreso than currently) what is available.

Who really has a 1mbps upstream from Comcast? Around these parts, I have yet to see any Comcast connection pull a 1mbps upstream result from a speed test.



inteller
Sociopaths always win.

join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK
reply to chemaupr

Re: Mapping should be a cake!

i totally agree. service build out needs a GIS approach....clearly they are not doing this.
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TScheisskopf
World News Trust

join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ

While they are at it:

They might want to look into QoS requirements for cablecos. I know that around here, in Eastern PA, there are some loops so oversold that a 56K modem would be faster at high traffic times.

Sauce for the goose and all that.


lesopp

join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL
reply to nixen

Re: Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

I'd feel more comfortable if the IETF or some such technical group defined broadband.

Given their track records over the past 30 years any congressional definition, of how fast something should be or how efficient something should be, lacks creditability.



Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
reply to inteller

It would be a good thing

If instead of making a hard fast definition just have a map of who has what speeds in what area at a given price range, and a rating system for customer service such as we have with our National Airlines for on time service and baggage loss, etc. Speed of your connection is one thing, but customer service, price, and a reliable connection are very important as well. Most of this stuff you can find anyway if you dig deep enough but have a one stop site where you can get this type of information would really be nice.
--
Remember safe sex does not prevent crabs.



Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
reply to bi0tech

Re: Census

Well since ADSL can only max out at 768 I somehow could see this bill wipe out the entire "broadband penetration" map to a mere dots on a U.S map.

Under this bill it would say I am not receiving broadband as my connection at home is 1500/768.

The telco's will fight it tooth and nail.