en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
| paying to bypass filters is just saying... I want some $ too
This is wrong.
All it means is that those that have $$$ to spend will be able to spam, and my ISP will be able to cash in it.
What's the purpose of having spam filters if my ISP will accept bribes to flood spam ?
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| The doctor analogy
That analogy is bad because that is not the situation we are in. It's not a matter of users receiving critical mail. It's about users receiving junk mail or not. The idea that you can pay to have your junk mail placed in customer's boxes, and that customer's shouldn't be upset is insane. If a doctor sends me an urgent letter via e-mail I'm finding another doctor and then suing. |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | I agree. Urgent information from a doctor had better not be sent through email to begin with.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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AMDonUT2004
join:2006-06-12
Bedford, VA
| I see it like this
so there going to charge us for filters to our email, next with vista they are going to start charging us to do updates to our computers.. what's next? charging people for a new email accounts maybe?  |
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raydog1
Feel Secure
Premium
join:2003-07-10
La Vergne, TN
1 edit | reply to Maxo
Re: The doctor analogy
Keep in mind "extremely urgent e-mail" doesn't have to mean "Biopsy Results." It could mean, "document you need to read/sign ASAP" and you don't have quick access to fax machine.
Edit: cause i can't speel |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| If you are receiving professional e-mail then you and your company should be using a professional web hosting service.
Again, this is about spammer being allowed to spam you, not about individuals being able to e-mail each other.
And if it was about individuals contacting each other, I certainly would not want to being using e-mail server from an ISP that requires those who wish to send me legitimate e-mails to pay them money.
--
"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter
»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad
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»maxolasersquad.com/network/ My DSL Network Guide
»myspace.com/mlsquad |
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Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | reply to en102
Re: paying to bypass filters is just saying... I want some $ too
Now apply the same idea to all content, and boom, you have the network neutrality debate. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to AMDonUT2004
Re: I see it like this
said by AMDonUT2004  :so there going to charge us for filters to our email, next with vista they are going to start charging us to do updates to our computers.. what's next? charging people for a new email accounts maybe? Unless you are a business sending out bulk email to potential customers(AKA Spam), YOU are not going to pay anything. The only people paying will be businesses who sometimes get caught up in ISP email spam filters. To avoid those filters, they must be verified as legitimate businesses and then be willing to pay a small fee to make sure their marketing ads are GUARANTEED to bypass ISP spam filters. There is potential for abuse, as ISP's tighten spam filters to such a degree that most big businesses will pay the fee.
But it will cut down on most spam due to the tightened ISP spam filters.
And maybe some businesses will raise their rates to pay the fees out of increased marketing budgets.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page |
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Mactron
el camino Real
Premium
join:2001-12-16
CM94sv
| ISP Mail...
Well it generally Sucks anyway. 
And no they shouldn't do this, but can and will. 
Ah Gmail, the savior from ISP Email. 
The Doctor Email analogy was terrible. 
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If only the Verizon CSRs worked this well.  |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to raydog1
Re: The doctor analogy
Yeah - I don't think that the general scenario was valid. Also, if anything is 'extremely urgent' (i.e. Escrow Documents), should be followed up with a phone call, etc. Standard messages like 'your bill is ready for review', is more of a notification.
I suspect that since there is a general class of 'bulk mail' for junk mail at home, people think that a similar class should be created for Email.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| I don't get it...
I pay for ISP service which includes SPAM filtering.
Someone who wants to send SPAM pays the ISP to bypass the SPAM filter.
I get part of that payment, right? No, I just get the SPAM.
How long until my ISP offers a service that will filter the SPAM that bypassed the SPAM filter?
And so on... |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| Crazy ... but faulty analogy
The idea of allowing spammers to "buypass" ISPs spamfilters is disgraceful. If Television stations are willing to accept "infomercials" for such wonderfully physiologically impossibilities like the products that are "guaranteed to enlarge that certain part of the mail anatomy", then you can be sure that ISPs will happily accept money for letting spam for these products through as well.
The analogy presented is flawed though ... It makes the assumption that any mail that is tagged by the filter as "Spam" will be automatically trashed and sets that up as a straw man that implies this to be the fault of goodmail. The reality is that even without goodmail, if the mail from say your doctor looks like spam, then it's going to be tagged as such today and dealt with by whatever rules you or your ISP uses now.
Goodmail doesn't change your ISP's current mail handling except to allow spammers to buy a "pink slip contract" whitelisting their mail. If you or your ISP junk spam unseen today, it won't change with goodmail. |
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Cyber2lz
join:2001-11-15
Odessa, FL
| Who
uses the ISP's mail servers anyway??????
Half the time they are slow and the other half they are clogged with SPAM. Or is that the same thing, 
Geesh !
--
The Light Pipe is the Right Pipe !!! |
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braden
join:2001-12-12
Aliso Viejo, CA
| Barriers to Entry
The internet is great, because in economic terms, there are very low barriers to entry. If I want to setup a company, and e-mail (directly, with OPT-IN clients) I can do so with very little outlay of cash. I buy some hosting space and setup e-mail and I'm ready to go.
Now, we all know spam filters are aggressive. However, something tells me that now that ISPs have a new revenue stream, that spam filters are going to get a lot more aggressive to help drive more revenue. So, basically, the barriers to entry get higher. If I want to get past the new insane spam filters, now I have to pay. Cost of doing business on the internet goes up, and less and less innovative business ideas see the light of day.
Welcome to the beginning of the slippery slope. |
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XBL2009
------
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL | Gmail
Thank God for Gmail or better yet buy your own domain and setup your own mail with imap and roundcube. |
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raydog1
Feel Secure
Premium
join:2003-07-10
La Vergne, TN
| reply to Maxo
Re: The doctor analogy
"If you are receiving professional e-mail then you and your company should be using a professional web hosting service."
Not if you can't afford it or are trying to save time. It wouldn't have been uncommon for me in my social work days to do something like this from home for a document that may have been as simple as a food stamp application. Faster to do it over email rather than driving to their home. A day later (if I did it in person) could result in a week delay in the client receiving their stamps depending on the time of week/month/year. If that email didn't get to them, then you have another delay. And before you say, "They need food stamps but have internet service???" It's not uncommon at all.
All I'm saying is the argument is valid. This isn't just an analogy. It actually happens in the real world. |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| So you think that you should have to pay to have your legitimate mail go through? Again, if my contacts have to pay a premium to send me e-mail then I'm finding a new e-mail provider.
And also, again, this is not about legitimate contacts, this is about allowing spammers to pay a premium to spam their customers. |
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MJRudzik
join:2002-01-13
Independence, MO
1 edit | reply to braden
Re: Barriers to Entry
said by braden :The internet is great, because in economic terms, there are very low barriers to entry. If I want to setup a company, and e-mail (directly, with OPT-IN clients) I can do so with very little outlay of cash. Yeah this is exactly the problem. I realize you state with opt in but opt in is often mis-defined by businesses. My simply having done business with a company is not my opting in to being contacted by the company outside the scope of the specific transaction. The low cost of internet businesses makes spam too tempting to too many.
said by braden :Now, we all know spam filters are aggressive. ... spam filters are going to get a lot more aggressive ..If I want to get past the new insane spam filters, now I have to pay. Good less junk for me to sort out. No empathy from me for busineses that get themselves caught in spam filters.
said by braden :Cost of doing business on the internet goes up, and less and less innovative business ideas see the light of day. If a business is so innovative then they can be innovative with their financing too. If they can't figure it out then they must not be that innovative. Its 'survival of the fittest' not 'I shouldn't have to work harder and smarter than my competition'. |
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BKuhl
join:1999-09-06
Lodi, NJ
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: I see it like this
said by TKJunkMail :Unless you are a business sending out bulk email to potential customers(AKA Spam), YOU are not going to pay anything. So, I'm subscribed to multiple free newsletters. I can assume I will no longer be able to receive them?
To the ISP they have no way of determining the difference between a popular newsletter and a common spam message...
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-BKuhl
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ftthz
If love can kill hate can also save
join:2005-10-17
| hrmm... pay me to read my emails would make me happy
give the customer a pct and they'll be happy use the extra revenue to cut prices maybe... but i can see why gmail does not need to join in on this as you type your emails and gmail auto saves what your typing the adds are updated in real time to reflect the keys words you are typing. |
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