  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Utopia In The Hole
Is Utopia still close to $100 million in the hole? Charging $40 a month isn't going to come close to paying for this investment.
Also, the article's comparing Utopia to the highway network is quite misleading. Roads in the USA are paid for by gas taxes, tolls and car and truck registration fees. In most states, only people who drive and/or own vehicles pay for road maintenance. Any person who does not wish to pay for roads can simply choose to not drive or own a vehicle, and he/she will not be paying for roads. Something like Utopia is going to eventually be bailed out by all of the taxpayers, whether they use the service or not. -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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  mcmillan
join:2001-04-15 West Bloomfield, MI
| This is an outrage!
"Why give [consumers] a Rolls Royce when a Chevrolet will do?" Jerry Fenn in 2003 Why NOT, Jerry?
THE LONG-TERM HARM TO CONSUMERS... WTF?
Can he at least demonstrate the HARM? It would be harmful for us if we could run servers and not pay him for symmetrical connection. How is it possible that we allow these people to have so much control over our services. They give us scraps and charge us pile of money. |
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  TScheisskopf World News Trust
join:2005-02-13 Belvidere, NJ | It is quotes from executives like Fenn that just reinforce my belief that in modern US business, if you want to be an executive, a diagnosis of Sociopathy is a vital entry on your CV. |
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  mcmillan
join:2001-04-15 West Bloomfield, MI
1 edit | reply to pnh102 Re: Utopia In The Hole
IMO it is not about 40$/ month bill. I would pay a 80 and then could even more if I had business going on this service. If taxpayers decide to drop the Utopia so be it. I would disagree with the point about road expenses. Quote: "Any person who does not wish to pay for roads can simply choose to not drive or own a vehicle, and he/she will not be paying for roads." End Quote. My counter point. Any person who does not wish to be breathing contaminated air can simply stop breathing. The availability of public transport makes it a difficult solution. Taxpayers have no direct control over spending in any state. |
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  TScheisskopf World News Trust
join:2005-02-13 Belvidere, NJ
·Sprint Broadband D..
| reply to pnh102 Buildout. Economies of Scale. Growth of customer base.
Econ 101.
And the time is over for the "Broadband is not vital infrastructure" argumet to have any credibility. If private industry's practices are not successful in meeting the needs of citizens, then it is proper and appropriate for government to step in, or risk being a "Third-World Economic Climate". |
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  vpoko Premium join:2003-07-03 Jamaica Plain, MA
| reply to pnh102 said by pnh102 :Roads in the USA are paid for by gas taxes, tolls and car and truck registration fees. In most states, only people who drive and/or own vehicles pay for road maintenance. Any person who does not wish to pay for roads can simply choose to not drive or own a vehicle, and he/she will not be paying for roads. Then explain why you, a resident of MD, is paying for our Big Dig in Boston? Federal income taxes pay for roads. |
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  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to TScheisskopf said by TScheisskopf :Buildout. Economies of Scale. Growth of customer base. Economies of scale only work when the cost of adding additional customers is marginal. In the case of a broadband rollout, this is not the case. Each additional customer requires that someone dig a trench, run cable that also needs to be purchased, install equipment that has to be maintained and pay more people to maintain said equipment.
Basically, the more customers they add, the more money they will lose. Now granted, over time, they may make enough to break even, but when I see that they've spent $100 million to wire up a few cities, that just seems like a very large economic hump to get over. -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to mcmillan said by mcmillan :Any person who does not wish to be breathing contaminated air can simply stop breathing. The availability of public transport makes it a difficult solution. The article made no mention of pollution from vehicles. It only erroneously compared the buildout of the road network to that of Utopia. When it comes to simply paying for roads, the people who do not drive or do not own vehicles do not end up paying for these roads. Contrast this with Utopia, which if it does fail (being $100m in the hole is not a good start), the taxpayers, including those who do not use the service are going to be socked big time. -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to vpoko said by vpoko :Then explain why you, a resident of MD, is paying for our Big Dig in Boston? Federal income taxes pay for roads. Because each of us pays a federal gas tax when we fill up. -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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  spewak R.I.P Dadkins Premium join:2001-08-07 Elk Grove, CA
·SureWest Internet
·FrontierNet Intern..
| reply to mcmillan Re: This is an outrage!
said by mcmillan :"Why give [consumers] a Rolls Royce when a Chevrolet will do?" Jerry Fenn in 2003 Why NOT,  Jerry? THE LONG-TERM HARM TO CONSUMERS... WTF? Heck, he might as well go for broke: "If they build it, the terrorists will win".  -- The weekend is here, grab a can of beer! |
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  RR Conductor RailRoadDude Premium join:2002-04-02 Redwood Valley, CA 1 edit | reply to pnh102 Re: Utopia In The Hole
Roads are also paid for with inflated subsidies, thankfully, things are slowly changing. |
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  rahlquist Redeye
join:2001-10-30 Villa Rica, GA
| reply to pnh102 said by pnh102 : Each additional customer requires that someone dig a trench, run cable that also needs to be purchased, install equipment that has to be maintained and pay more people to maintain said equipment. While technically true keep in mind that in the case of a NEW customer these costs are going to happen anyway when they hook them up to sewer, water, cable, phone, and in some cases underground power.
Basically, the more customers they add, the more money they will lose. Now granted, over time, they may make enough to break even, but when I see that they've spent $100 million to wire up a few cities, that just seems like a very large economic hump to get over. No argument there, it is a large hump but some creativity could help them. -- Fed Up With Stupidity?
Patentlystupid.com |
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  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to RR Conductor said by RR Conductor :Roads are also paid for with inflated subsidies, thankfully, things are slowly changing. How so? I know there are some states which do not charge enough gas tax to cover the costs of roads but this is not a widespread problem. However, in just about every state, and at the federal level, gas taxes subsidize transit. -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to rahlquist said by rahlquist :While technically true keep in mind that in the case of a NEW customer these costs are going to happen anyway when they hook them up to sewer, water, cable, phone, and in some cases underground power. True, true. I know that a lot of local governments impose surcharges on new developments to cover these costs (these actually are going up where I live). That isn't unreasonable, as existing users of these services should not have to pay a rate hike to cover the costs of adding new users. -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to mcmillan Re: This is an outrage!
said by mcmillan :"Why give [consumers] a Rolls Royce when a Chevrolet will do?" Jerry Fenn in 2003 Why NOT,  Jerry? The operative word here is "give." I am sure Mr. Fenn will happily sell you a Rolls Royce (even in a metaphorical sense). But giving one away, even more most people... we'd probably be a bit stingy there. -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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  mcmillan
join:2001-04-15 West Bloomfield, MI | reply to pnh102 Re: Utopia In The Hole
I am sorry. I edited my post. The pollution was my example. |
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  mcmillan
join:2001-04-15 West Bloomfield, MI
1 edit | reply to pnh102 Re: This is an outrage!
Good point. Let me be clearer. I understand that Mr. Fenn said, "Why should the industry (Qwest?) provide customers with better , cheaper service when providing with inferior one will make the most of the customers happy enough" My point is, Why not provide people with the service which will not be overpriced. Competition is suppose to help customer not the company.
The people Mr. Fenn likes are the ones that use his service, paying according to his price-list. He implies that it is not proper to compete with the company. I do not think Mr. Fenn meant "give" in a literal sense. He could not possibly have. Neither did I |
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  ib50MbSoon Formerly TwoKDialup Premium join:2002-06-07 Coloma, MI
| What's the problem?
Decades ago we built out a nationwide phone network to virtually everyone/everywhere. The voice network served its purpose but is now approaching end of life.
So why can't we build a fiber network today?
If the telcos don't want to do it then they should STFU and get the hell out of the way of those who do! -- Meet Bill and Karolyn at www.theslowskys.com |
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  once again
@mcleodusa.net
from: plk 
| reply to pnh102 Re: Utopia In The Hole
I have to post this every single time.
It has been calculated that worst case scenario (network is total loss) cost to tax payers is between 5-10 dollars a month (per household).
Maybe you realized this or maybe you didn't, comcast costs 15 dollars month less in utopia areas.
The main point is that no matter what happens with the build out the taxpayer will likely save more money in the long run due to lower prices and increased competition. Even if they never use a utopia service they will save money.
As an aside. I run a counter-strike source server and have dozens of players that come in with a ping of 5. Guess what they are on??? yep, utopia (and iprovo) |
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 Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26 North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | reply to pnh102 Where'd they get all those gas and vehicle taxes before the highways were there? They must have pre-taxed all the people who thought about driving, and then built it out that way.
By the way, nice ridiculous assumption of $100m in the hole.
Like any business in the development stage, revenues are expected to increase substantially every year. If they increased at the same rate (1000% I believe I saw from your link) they'll be making $150 billion dollars in revenue a year by year 6. In year 7 they will represent 10% of the US GDP. :P |
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