TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
|  An advantage of FTTH is to end copper maintenance
Just more of the "I want my cake and eat it too" attitude. They want the high speed and reliability of fiber, but they want it at low cost. Well, they can't maintain all the copper plant and install fiber and keep costs low. People, you can't have it both ways.
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dcurrey
Premium
join:2004-06-29 | Copper fees added!
They could always add on a "Return to Copper" option fee to Fios lines.
Maybe I shouldn't have said that  |
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Dennis
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join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
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| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: An advantage of FTTH is to end copper maintenance
said by TKJunkMail  :People, you can't have it both ways. You can't? Why can't you....I don't see why lifting the pair at the CO incures more costs? What happens if they want to downgrade service....or change carriers? Forget dial up...coppper's gone. Forget Covad...coppers gone. Need 911 in a power outage and your UPS is dead...coppers gone.
There are plenty of reasons why removing the pair seems like dirty pool in my book. But at the very least, there should be options, imho.
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Mactron
el camino Real
Premium
join:2001-12-16
CM94sv
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :Just more of the "I want my cake and eat it too" attitude. They want the high speed and reliability of fiber, but they want it at low cost. Yup, and why not if I can. 
Personally I could care less if they "take the copper". As a home owner I want all the resellabity (is that a word?..) /resale value I can offer a buyer some day. Not everyone is a BB nut like we are. Bottom line it's a choice I hope to make some day, and I'll try very hard to keep the copper in place. Why not if they give you that choice?
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If only the Verizon CSRs worked this well. |
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neftv
join:2000-10-01
Broomall, PA
 ·Broadvox Direct
| guarantee
I have had Fios for few months now and so far no outage but can Verizon guarantee that the connection will hold up as long as copper does when power goes out? Sure the ONT has battery and I have a UPS but the "network" stay up to the backbone for as long at the CO can for copper? If so, they can take my copper out. If not then I want to keep copper. Copper would be the back up for communications be it internet or phone. |
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a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Dennis
Re: An advantage of FTTH is to end copper maintenance
Actually, to keep a usable copper pair to ur home, it does in fact cost verizon, cause they have to mantain the pair, and keep the copper plant mantained. Also, dialup does in fact work on fiber, albeit at lower speeds. in addition, u can DEFINITELY change carriers on fiber, its just like POTS, u are free to downgrade, or change local carriers.
In all, it costs MONEY to upgrade to fiber, so VZ just wants to cut the cost of mantaining copper. BTW, many people with DSL on the line say theyve been able to keep copper, either bcause of the DSL, or cause they have a different CLEC for local toll. |
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
 ·Hollis Hosting
·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to Dennis
said by Dennis : Why can't you....I don't see why lifting the pair at the CO incures more costs? Because maintenance cost of copper is much higher then fiber and copper take up more space then fiber.
The issue is not your copper circuit circuit per se it is the ability to decommission outside copper plant once fiber becomes pervasive.
In urban area it means being able to remove copper from underground ducts to install fiber without having to dig up the streets.
/tom |
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a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY | reply to neftv
Re: guarantee
Of course, VZ is required by law to keep the voice network working, which is why they generally have backup generators and batteries at the CO, and switching centers. |
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dcurrey
Premium
join:2004-06-29
·ViaTalk
| reply to neftv
I can see the option of going back to dsl. But as a backup line. Lets say the power does go out for extended time. Fios line drops. You still won't be able to use the copper line for phone or internet service. Its dead they are not going to come out and hook it back up for a few hours.
This doesn't apply if you are in an area that is required to maintain 911 even on disconnect lines. Once you cancel phone service here its gone. |
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JackBauer
join:2006-08-24
Schenectady, NY
| Love POTS but...
I would LOVE to have POTS and I guess I would prefer to have copper if I still used POTS.
But as much as I like the reliability and clarity of my copper pair... I love the features I get with VOIP even more.
As soon as I can block specific calls with a web interface, I would go back to VZ and pay the extra $30 or so per month to get it.
I guess my point is that I don't care too much at this point - but if VZ started offering advance calling features with POTS, I'd probably want to stay with copper. |
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verolom
join:2002-03-23
Eagleville, PA
·Comcast
| reply to neftv
Re: guarantee
Are you aware that the ONT uses a lead-acid battery with a life span of about five years? What happens to it when it no longer can power the ONT? Will Verizon be able to test it proactively and replace it before it is completely dead like they do with CO batteries or will you figure that you don't really have a battery backup when the power outage occurs?
As crappy as copper is, it does offer independence from the power company to make calls. With all the new equipment and its complexity, the cost of maintaining it could easily surpass that of maintaining the copper lines. |
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93254336
Weapons Of Masturbation
Premium
join:2001-10-20
| How about this idea:
Have two POTS lines in your house under different family names, and when FIOS is deployed, get only one of the POTS lines converted. Since the other POTS line is technically a different customer, they can't switch it over to FIOS unless that customer (the other family member) signs up for it.
- Dan
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"That which does not kill us makes us stranger."
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| reply to Dennis
Re: An advantage of FTTH is to end copper maintenance
Dennis, you silly boy! all of those reasons to keep copper are reasons the customer wants to keep it. Verizon doesn't care about the customer, it only cares about it's shareholders.
there are two reasons verizon doesn't want to keep copper around in FIOS areas:
1. I concede that there is probably some cost associated with maintaining the copper, so it's a cost cutting measure,
2. the more insidious reason to remove the copper is to essentially strand the customer with no option but the incumbent telco, or, in cases where there is at least a duopoly, the incumbent cableco; the FCC has already decreed that fiber doesn't have to be shared - remove the copper and you remove the likelihood of any other landline provider except for the cableco to provide broadband |
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Voyager2K2
join:2001-10-04
Wayne, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to neftv
Re: guarantee
The ONT has a 2-stage back-up.
It first will provide power for x-amount of time.
There is a secondary button which will provide power for emergency use after the primary back-up is exhausted.
Having survived a couple of hurricanes in FLA a few years back something of the magnitude that would take out power that long usually damages the entire utility infrastructure.
This means copper is gone, cable is gone (including VoIP) and perhaps if you are lucky cell phones still work.
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SquareSlinky
Premium
join:2004-05-25
Tampa, FL | reply to Dennis
Re: An advantage of FTTH is to end copper maintenance
If you want the copper, than don't get FIOS. Enough of the copper crap. |
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jwersan
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, and Max.
Premium
join:2004-12-20
Port Jefferson Station, NY
clubs:
·Optimum Online
| Wake up folks!
You all seem to be missing a BIG point here...
Fiber to the home is the REPLACEMENT for copper!
When your entire CO has converted all users to Fiber, the decommissioning of the copper plant will start.
Verizon has never intended to keep copper after it completes the fiber rollout.
If you are able to keep your copper link after they do the FIOS install, consider yourself on borrowed time.
As to battery backup, the ENTIRE phone system runs on batteries, backed up by AC power and generators. With the conversion to fiber, the UP-TIME for the system INCREASES because the fiber equipment uses less energy. I would assume the battery in your home will be on a replacement schedule, and most likely they will charge you something to replace it, or they have that cost tacked onto your bill already.
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Oh Please
@comcast.net
| Wanting to keep the copper when you can get ftth
is akin to wanting your PC maker to keep a floppy drive in your new computer.
Verizon isn't spending all these billions of dollars to maintain a dual plant and in this case, a decades old worn out tired one.
BESIDES..they have other uses for all this copper they're going to rip out.
They'll be selling it to AT&T to use for their Next generation Uverse service. |
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04192377
BooB Man
Premium
join:2007-04-07
Newark, DE | .
Well I got my FiOS and copper still intact. So no complaints. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Migrate All Customers to Fiber
I see a day when Verizon has deployed their fiber to everyone's curb with the customers that "want" FiOS having already subscribed and Verizon then migrating everyone else without their choice. It make no economical sense for Verizon to maintain two full infrastructures. It's funny that readers here at BBR bitch that telcos and cablecos aren't bringing new technology to the masses fast enough, and then when they do, they still bitch. Technology continues to progress and so must society. |
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HD_Ride
Premium
join:2000-10-18
Trenton, NJ
·VoicePulse
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | RE: FiOS Customers Complain About Copper Loss
I didn't complain, I was glad to see the NID go and get and ONT in it's place. I guess it’s a concern for some but not others. As far as the battery backup, again not a big deal it’s just any other battery that you would replace in your UPS, alarm panel or emergency lighting. It’s going to be an additional $20 every 4 to 5 years. If you don't want to put out the funds for a battery every 4-5 years Fios is not for you. I actually went a step further and put a cheap UPS in front of my router and ONT to protect again spikes and buy some additional time if needed. If I had a complaint I would hope they had better phone features such as the VoIP providers, that said the TV and Internet service blow away all other competition. |
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