inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK | earthlink save yourself....drop helio.
MVNOs are just snake oil. Drop that crap. |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
1 edit | You would think.
Was listening to this audio interview with the Amp'd CEO Peter Adderton who insists thusly:
quote:
What Helio is trying to do, similar to what Amp’d was trying, is exactly on the right path. The difference between Helio and Amp’d it that Helio has two shareholders that are willing to ride this through and make sure that it gets out the other end.
Is Earthlink really in a position to take the risk though? |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
3 edits | Well duh...
$22/mo for dialup, $30-$40/mo for 1.5Mb DSL...plus horrid off shore tech support?
And they're shocked they're losing subscribers to competitors?
Why not just charge $50 million per month for dial up? Then they'll only need 1 subscriber.
In other news, Wi-Fi would do just fine so long as they get away from the cities with their hands out looking for free Wi-Fi. COVAD (formerly Nextweb) is ripping me for $160/mo for my ultra crappy 3Mb WISP service and I would pay double if it only worked like it supposed to.
There are plenty of areas even here in FiOS filled SoCal not servicable by DSL or cable where ELN could fill the gap and make a mint, especially from small business where cable and telcos don't deploy advanced services.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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DrStrange
Technically feasible
Premium
join:2001-07-23
West Hartford, CT
 ·Stephouse Networks
 ·magicjack.com
·EarthLink
| If they die, it will be thanks to brain-dead lemmings
I've been an Earthlink customer since 2001. Before that I was a direct customer of Ziplink. Ziplink got new managemant in the late 1990s and tried to expand too fast, buy everything in sight, and made some questionable management decisions. They were gone within two years.
In the last few years, I've seen Earthlink do the same thing. If Earthlink wants to be in business in 5 years, here's my advice, FWIW:
Forget about Helio or whatever it's called. Leave gadgets to the big boys. You're no longer a big boy. Osteporosis has set in.
Stop the lemming behaviors and 'do the right thing':
1. Move your support back to wherever your customers are. Get rid of the offshore support. Their incompetence is enraging and alienating your customer base. UNDERSTAND THIS: YOU ARE NOTHING WITHOUT YOUR CUSTOMERS.
2. Dig out a copy of the Mindspring Core Values, memorize them and implement them throughout your organization.
3. Muni-Fi could be a money-maker if set up this way:
-A 'Free Tier' at 110-200Kbps speeds.
-A 'Bronze Tier' at $10 a month at 512 KBps.
-A 'Silver Tier' at $30 a month at 2.5Mbps.
-A 'Gold Tier' at $50 a month at 6Mbps.
-A 'Platinum Tier' at $150 a month at 'up to 54Mbps'.
and some business tiers.
4. Anyone who tries to get you to follow the trends in the industry and just concentrate on the bottom line should be laid off and shipped one-way to Bangalore. |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
 ·Comcast
| just think...
if the 1996 telecom act had been enforced, instead of getting ready to go bankrupt, Earthlink could have been planning to build their own fiber infrastructure, like is happening with CLECs in Japan.
The incumbents were absolutely correct (from a shareholder and business plan point of view) in preventing the CLECs from succeeding, as at least a few CLECs probably would have been successful enough to have the capitalization for starting to build their own networks - competing on infrastructure, just like the FCC has been claiming they should do.
The government has absolutely abdicated it's responsibility to consumers and the nation by letting the incumbents control regulatory policy.
I have been constantly amazed Earthlink lasted as long as they have. Earthlink is proof positive there will be no viable "third pipe" competitor as long as the current policies remain in place. |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| reply to Karl Bode
Re: earthlink save yourself....drop helio.
I think this clusterfuck may actually survive. First, if AOL can survive, anything is possible.
But really, here's what Earthlink has going for it:
A CEO who has been through the wringer a few times. Not many people are better at salvaging companies than Rolla.
The "other" shareholder in Helio...SK Telecom has cash and government backing in its homeland....and a real hakerin' to expand into the US.
There was news story recently that SKT is interested in buying out Sprint. Sprint is the network Helio runs on. Sprint and Earthlink also have a commone lineage. I believe there is a very good chance that SK Telecom will buy out both Sprint and Earthlink.
Earthlink will be the customer-facing ISP brand and focus on Broadband - DSL, BPL, Muni, Fiber...any shape it comes in, Sprint will be the business, leased line, carrier wholesale type division and Helio will be the wireless brand. Boost will continue as the hip, mostly prepaid type brand targeted towards the young crowd. Mindspring will become a full blown VoIP offering. Nextel will become a sub-brand or a trademark name for the walkie-talkie service offered as an addition to wireless from Helio instead of continuing as its own separate brand like it has even post-merger....and Nextel will live even after iden dies and is replaced with qchat or some such. |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| reply to nasadude
Re: just think...
As much as our current regulatory environment bothers me with regard to telecommunications, if we're going to wake up all of a sudden and start fixing things, I'd start with things that matter a little bit more than a fast pipe to the interweb.
Not disagreeing with you, in fact, I'm in complete agreement with your point of view, however, the current hole has been a long time in the making and its going to take even longer to dig out of it - if that's possible at all in the first place since it may already be too late to salvage this country. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to nasadude
If you don't own the infrastructure, you are going nowhere. Earthlink has tried to base it's whole business on riding on someone else's infrastructure. That is a losing proposition. Because the gov't stopped forcing businesses from giving away their product at below cost wholesale prices. As soon as Earthlink had to pay fair wholesale prices, their business went south.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page |
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brooklynman4
join:2004-09-07
Brooklyn, NY | buyout??
I smell a buyout pretty soon for both companies. |
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pinot noir6
Premium
join:2007-04-23
Columbus, OH
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: just think...
said by TKJunkMail  :Earthlink has tried to base it's whole business on riding on someone else's infrastructure. Well said. I agree this was their problem all along. |
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pepperxn
join:2001-02-21
| reply to kapil
Re: earthlink save yourself....drop helio.
I read this as well about SKT interested in buying Sprint. Sprint's marketcap is way larger than SKT, so they might buy part of Sprint as part of a group bid for the whole company.
I don't see how the FCC would approve of this anyways.
I read a while back that eventually Sprint will drop the Nextel brand name. I dunno about this.
I think Earthlink's best move is to buy Covad, and possibly smaller ISPs. |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
1 edit | reply to DrStrange
Re: If they die, it will be thanks to brain-dead lemmings
You can't make money with a free tier. You can't lose a dollar and make it up in volume. None of those tiers will fly with WiFi without DL caps or throttling.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
| reply to nasadude
Re: just think...
Many CLECS were building infrastructure, they just did it via debt and issuing stock. When the Dot com crash came, and the stock plunged, they folded... and all the equipment and infrastructure they had was sold super cheap liquidation to the large incumbents. The timing of the crash still pisses me off. I think if it had "held out" say 2-3 more years, many of those companies would have completed their building-out phase and would of been delivering service... the debt would of still been hard to swallow, but at least they would of had some revenue coming in and a lot better chance at surviving.... and we, the customers, would have more options and services available then we do now.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| reply to pepperxn
Re: earthlink save yourself....drop helio.
If FCC approved MCI and Verizon and AT&T and SBC...even with a democratic congress, I don' think a SK Telecom buyout or a "merger" would be a problem. At least not a big enough problem to kill the deal entirely.
Sprint doesn't have as many government contracts as ATT or MCI so there wouldn't be any "national security" type concerns. And if the argument is that foreign entities shouldn't own such a vital piece of national infrastructure, I'm agraid that boat sailed quite a while ago with most of our government and industry leaders on it!
If Covad decides it can't surivie and grow as an independent, it's going home to AT&T.
There's also the possibility that Rolla may sell Earthlink to McLeod, just like he did with his last company Mpower...McLeod, while much smaller when compared to the ILECs, has found new life! ...and could be in the market for a "consumer" brand to complement is mostly business-class offering. |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to kapil
Re: just think...
said by kapil :............ it may already be too late to salvage this country. The United States of America is much more then Earthlink, it is, believe it or not, bigger then massive tubes of porn. |
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clickie
join:2005-05-22
Monroe, MI
| reply to TKJunkMail
While I agree with the premise of your argument, you're forgetting that the FCC said "hey, come on aboard, these people *have* to open their networks so they can enter other markets". And then, a few years later, the rug gets pulled out from under Earthlink as the FCC rules that all the investment is for nothing, they reverse their original position.
If there was any shred of fairness for the dial-up ISPs who pretty much created the consumer internet market as well as consumers, the dial-up ISPs would have had licenses granted for wireless spectrum when the FCC killed access to incumbent copper. If that would have happened, I bet that any place with more than 500 residents would have had some sort of broadband since 2000. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
1 edit | reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :Because the gov't stopped forcing businesses from giving away their product at below cost wholesale prices. As soon as Earthlink had to pay fair wholesale prices, their business went south. I've never believed that argument about how the 1996 Telecom act forced the ILEC's to wholesale DSL etc "At a loss".
I find it interesting that while they "re-sold" it to 3rd parties for a price of around $35 a month for just the line, they themselves offered complete DSL service with ISP to the end consumer for around the exact same price--- in effect making it impossible for any so called re-seller to make any margin. I remember when local ISP's offered DSL + Internet plus nice features like Static IP's and Shell access and website hosting etc... but they could only offer it at about $50 a month making the ILEC straight-to-the-public price significantly cheaper.
Personally, I think the entire thing was bad faith and propaganda by the ILEC's. They were pressing the FCC and Congress hard to rescind much of the 1996 Telecom Act at the time... and they won... The plan worked... they pretty much wiped out all the ISP's in just a couple of years. |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| reply to batterup
It has very little to do with Earthlink. It's about a, by now, well established pattern of making decisions that are clearly not in the best interest of the nation long term, and of dubious merit even as a short term fix.
Our raw materials, finished products, "smart" people...all come from overseas. If the second world war were to happen today, we'd be screwed because we can't make anything we'd need to fight the war at home anymore.
Our last great source of leverage is capital...and even that's increasingly borrowed from foreigners...and sooner or later they are going to get tired of the ever decreasing value of their investment in the dollar, regardless of how much crap we buy from them.
If you remember, during the dot-com bust, a lot of big names like Cisco, Intel etc. were hurting...because in their greed to expand their revenue, they had sold equipment to these dot coms who wouldn't know a business plan if it came with a set of 36 DDs, and then financed their own equipment using their own money.
Their were accepting their own money as payment for their own equipment! Of course we all know how that ended.
Our relationship with China and others with whom we have a lopsided trading relationship is much the same...they loan us money so we can go back and buy their shit! It works just fine upto a point....when each dollar they loan us is only worth enough to buy 60 cents worth of their crap, they are going to put a stop to it real quick. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to KrK
If that were true, over builders like RCN would be growing strong. It still takes a lot of money behind those networks to survive. Marketing dollars play one of the largest parts of keeping a business alive in a competitive market.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..." |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | reply to TKJunkMail
I call Shenanigan. Or the Godwin equivalent on the 1996 law. |
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