TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
|  FTTN & hybrid VDSL has promise
A hybrid system where fiber is run to local nodes and then copper the rest of the way to the premises using VDSL shows a lot of promise. It leeps local loops short and speeds high without incurring the cost of running fiber to every home. I think we will see a lot of this over the next decade or two.
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | keeps cost low TEMPORARILY. eventually, all these homes will have to be re-wired. the cost of labor to do this will be astronomical no matter if they do it today or in 5 years. so what's the true benefit in waiting? |
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Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
clubs:
·BlueYonder Interne..
 ·Be There
| DSL Will Always Be A Stopgap
As subject says DSL is nothing but a stopgap to sweat the copper infrastructure some more. In itself it's amazing how much data they are managing to throw down that twisted pair however eventually fibre will have to be brought so close to the home to achieve the required bandwidths that FTTP becomes an economical option, then it will happen.
Written on an 18Mbit down 2.6Mbit up ADSL2+ line, connection straight to CO with no remote DSLAM or FITL. |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | reply to morbo
Re: FTTN & hybrid VDSL has promise
Is that box in the picture tilted to the left??? |
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chemaupr
join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA | reply to morbo
To short term investor its better to wait? more cash, more profit, more dividends...
But if the company only think short term... well short term life they'll have. |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| reply to morbo
said by morbo  :keeps cost low TEMPORARILY. eventually, all these homes will have to be re-wired. the cost of labor to do this will be astronomical no matter if they do it today or in 5 years. so what's the true benefit in waiting? So what is the benefit of going ahead NOW if the cost is STILL going to be astronomical?
There is a limit to the CAPEX available.
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Chris 313
Come get some
Premium
join:2004-07-18
Houma, LA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast
·Charter Pipeline
 ·Comcast Digital Vo..
·AT&T CallVantage
| Docsis 3.0 is gonna stomp this into the floor.
AT&T has delayed faster speeds and better TV until next year? That'll be a major problem for them when Comcast pulls out Docsis 3 systems and speeds. Already, I've 8/768 which is faster than anything AT&T offers now. With Powerboost, I see near 30,000/2,000.
In a few months, the tier I'm on will be 16,000/2,000 where AT&T will still be at a max of 6000.
When Comcast and the other MSOs deploy D3, they'll easily put a hurt on AT&T unless they have something spectacular to pull out their ass.
And the best thing about it is that there are no big VRADs cluttering up the place. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to N3OGH
Re: FTTN & hybrid VDSL has promise
said by N3OGH :Is that box in the picture tilted to the left??? It must have been taken by a BBR camera.  |
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Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
clubs:
·BlueYonder Interne..
·Be There
1 edit | reply to Chris 313
Re: Docsis 3.0 is gonna stomp this into the floor.
FITL gives them some capability to improve.
8/768 is pretty crap for HFC and is slower than I see with zero fibre in the loop, DSL is capable of better given shorter loops and cable is capable of far better. That number is approximately the capability of DMT ADSL 1, so I'd say Comcast also sell their network short for commercial reasons as with appropriate node sizes and capacity upgrades their HFC architecture is easily capable of far more which makes me a bit cynical about what they will and won't deploy in the future.
When Comcast and other MSOs deploy DOCSIS 3 (which will probably require shutting some analogue down) I'm sure that the ILECs will respond, they've no choice in the matter. The FITL architecture gives them far more room to respond and they will be following a similar architecture to cablecos as far as splitting 'nodes' goes except it will be to minimise loop length rather than homes passed in their case.
Hell let the battle commence. Even Japan delivers 100Mbit using this tech, fibre to a VDSL2 DSLAM in the basement of an apartment block then twisted pair from there. Yes it's not fibre but neither is HFC so don't write it off just yet. Of course pure fibre is the gold standard but FITL can deliver.
EDIT: In short don't write the tech off because one operator chooses to underutilise it, just as Comcast only give you 8Mbit downstream while Cablevision give their subs 30 using the same tech, so VDSL2 is capable of far far more than the pretty banal 6/1 AT&T are offering.  |
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL | reply to TKJunkMail
Re: FTTN & hybrid VDSL has promise
That is exactly the way cable did it. Fiber to the node, then run on the existing RF/copper to the home. Has worked for them so far, but the telcos are real late to the party.
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pcnetworx1
join:2005-09-21
Bethel Park, PA | reply to TKJunkMail
*slow clap*  |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | reply to Chris 313
Re: Docsis 3.0 is gonna stomp this into the floor.
Ogres, Santa Clause, The Tooth Fairy all have DOCSIS 3.0 too. It's only a matter of time! |
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dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
| reply to morbo
Re: FTTN & hybrid VDSL has promise
What's the benefit of waiting? The same benefit of waiting that you or I get when it comes to technology- as time goes on gear gets smaller, cheaper and better.
Perhaps more importantly, the demand amongst the general public isn't there yet for 100M, meaning the longer they wait the less time it takes to recoup investment costs. Pretty simple really- spend billions now on fiber that will be mostly dark, or spend it later when demand justifies the capital expense.
Of course this is BBR, where reality is quickly brushed aside in favor of "waaaa... but I want it now so I can pirate movies faster from my Mom's basement." |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
 ·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| reply to morbo
said by morbo :keeps cost low TEMPORARILY. eventually, all these homes will have to be re-wired. the cost of labor to do this will be astronomical no matter if they do it today or in 5 years. so what's the true benefit in waiting? The cost of technology like this goes down as time goes on. Remember when a managed network switch used to be expensive? Remember when gigabit ethernet was just too much to invest in? As time has went on, those things have become more affordable. Same will happen with fiber. It will be much less costly in about 3-5 years.
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xo
join:2007-06-15
Perry, FL | AT&T
doesn't think you need anything more than 6 mbps. |
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jsimmons
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-24
Falls Church, VA
| reply to dynodb
Re: FTTN & hybrid VDSL has promise
said by dynodb :What's the benefit of waiting? The same benefit of waiting that you or I get when it comes to technology- as time goes on gear gets smaller, cheaper and better. Yes. the technology gets cheaper and better over time. But I can say with very high probability - the cost of installinng a new infrastructure (ala Fiber) to the node or home will be much higher in 1 2 or 5 years than today due to labor and in many cases the cost to acquire rights of way.
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"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler."- Albert Einstein |
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w4ncr
join:2000-10-27 | reply to xo
Re: AT&T
JUST REMEMBER THE AT&T SLOGAN YOUR WORLD DELIVERED JUST A LOT SLOWER. |
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NewMariner
join:2005-06-24
| reply to morbo
Re: FTTN & hybrid VDSL has promise
said by morbo :keeps cost low TEMPORARILY. eventually, all these homes will have to be re-wired. the cost of labor to do this will be astronomical no matter if they do it today or in 5 years. so what's the true benefit in waiting? Wrong...Wiring to a Node down the street is much cheaper then wiring to the home. The cost today are astronomical compared to what they will be in the future. For instance, verizon has stated that to wire a home for FTTP when they first started was around 2k per home. Now it is down to around 900-1k per home. As workers get more experience working it, and fiber is able to be run around corners(which I have read is coming soon) then it will get cheaper. So in all reality, why not use FTTN as a stepping stone. Your halfway to FTTP...along with FTTN you also get faster speeds.
This mentality that everything is owed to you and you should have it NOW! has got to stop...it is bringing down America. |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to morbo
Shareholders holding out for cheaper cost of...
fiber ?
GPON ?
There's actually a downside to the VRADs (besides the appearance).
1. Physical cost of the VRAD
2. Site prep of the VRAD (concrete, running fiber)
3. Physical maint. of the VRAD (power, electronics, site visit, vandalism, car crash, etc.)
Compared to...
CO based FTTH.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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Xizer
join:2004-02-05
New York, NY
| reply to xo
Re: AT&T
Yep. If you need more than 6 Mbps you must be using it for piracy:
»money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/art···5783.htm
Have fun with that one, AT&T customers. |
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