Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
 ·Colbanet
| Idiots.
Tough luck. Your subscribers pay you to provide a connection at a certain speed. Plenty of ISPs out there can afford to provide service to heavy bandwidth users, you UK ISPs can too.
Here's an idea, if you UK ISPs can't afford to provide service and still make a profit, why don't you get out of the business? Somebody else will pick up the slack.
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Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
clubs:
 ·BlueYonder Interne..
·Be There
| Tiscali...
As previously mentioned Tiscali offer an extremely low price, low quality and shaped to crap service.
These are the guys that restrict people's service for daring to use 350MB in a week between 6pm and midnight.
Same with Carphone Warehouse, offering their service 'free' and shaped to hell, and BT.
All symptomatic of the UK regulator artificially inflating the prices that they pay for wholesale access to the ILEC network to encourage unbundling of COs and promote competition, however even some of those doing that are offering services so cheap that they are shaping to make the numbers work, Carphone being one of them.
Tiscali have unbundled some, but are using it purely to drive costs for themselves down, still shape their customers to crap.
BT are the only ISP that use their interconnect method, and they have a small army of Ellacoyas to control traffic.
As with so many other things you get what you pay for and hopefully this will convince all the people who snubbed paying a few bucks more for a better service of that. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Bullshit...
"The internet was not set up with a view to distributing video." What a line of bullshit if I ever heard one... The internet was setup to move IP packets regardless of content, be it email, web pages, FTP packets, streaming audio or video.
You have to love how ignorant these execs are about the internet despite the fact that they run the companies that provide access to it. No wonder they are coming up with the asinine ideas they have. They haven't a clue.
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Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. |
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Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
clubs:
·BlueYonder Interne..
·Be There
| That was a Tiscali exec for you.
The bandwidth Tiscali have is a pretty long way from unlimited, and their network is set up with a view to doing nothing.
Core network saturation, local VP saturation, national interconnect saturation, extreme shaping. All in a day's work for Tiscali. Go complain about it to their Bangalore customer services and be ignored.
Crap services, crap billing, crap support, crap customer service.
But hey it's really, really cheap. Can't think why.  |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Corporation: One Goal: Money
1) Charge people to connect.
2) Charge providers for connection.
3) Charge providers for the bandwidth they use. (and often the users too)
Now they want to charge providers extra for their expenses of providing the services 1, 2, and 3 that people already pay for! They are like leeches, they want everyone else to pay for everything, but they rake in the profits.
I just don't understand the logic of these thinking.
"You owe us money for us to bill you for service! If you don't pay us to upgrade our infrastructure, we'll cripple you!"
This type of situation only occurs when too much of the infrastructure and the connections are in the hands of a few, far too powerful companies with limited or no competition.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| Pay per Usuage
I have always thought that customers should pay for exactly how much they use. Those who download 24/7 from Newsgroups and p2p should end up paying their proportion of the cost instead of moderate users subsidizing them.
Thus if you want to download HD Movies and TV shows....You can as long as you want to bear the costs.
Hob
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"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quake110
join:2003-12-20
Ottawa, ON
·Velcom
| Sad days for UK's broadband advancement.
Just saw a documentary where France is beginning to lay down fibers to provide a Fios like service. And they actually encourage the user to use their service to view multimedia contents.
So it's not an excuse for UK's ISP providers. They'll have to keep up with the times. |
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X_Digit
Binary Enhanced
Premium
join:2003-06-12
Mansfield, TX
1 edit | Ah, here's our brand new 2007 Corvette... just your style! Only $75,000 w/ a top speed of 250mph, and able to drive practically ANYWHERE... ANYTIME! You're truly unlimited!
SOME RESTRICTIONS APPLY. THE PRICE QUOTED IS FOR THE VEHICLE ITSELF. IF YOU ACTUALLY INTEND TO USE THE VEHICLE, YOU WILL INCUR A ZOOM-ZOOM FEE OF $5.00 PER MILE DRIVEN. TOP SPEED IS ONLY POSTED FOR PERFORMANCE REASONS. ANY SPEED OVER 30MPH WILL RESULT IN A ZOOM-OVERAGE FEE OF AN ADDITIONAL $1.00 PER MPH OVER. THE IN-DASH STEREO SYSTEM CAN PLAY OVER 1000 XM STATIONS; HOWEVER, IF YOU DO NOT CHOOSE ONE OF THE ONLY DOZEN "APPROVED" STATIONS, YOU WILL BE IN BREECH OF YOUR VEHICULAR AGREEMENT, RESULTING IN A COMPLETE BAN FROM YOUR VEHICLE. FOR INTERNAL REASONS, WE CAN NOT ADVISE WHAT THESE STATIONS ARE. THIS NOTICE CAN BE UPDATED AT ANYTIME WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE.
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Respectfully, X_Digit |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to hobgoblin
Re: Pay per Usage
said by hobgoblin  :I have always thought that customers should pay for exactly how much they use. Those who download 24/7 from Newsgroups and p2p should end up paying their proportion of the cost instead of moderate users subsidizing them. Thus if you want to download HD Movies and TV shows....You can as long as you want to bear the costs. Hob Ultimately, I think this is exactly what will happen. And the heaviest users will have to either be rich or cut back on their consumption of bandwidth.
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battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000
| reply to Guspaz
Re: Idiots.
Here is a better Idea. If you want unrestricted, unfiltered, unshaped, do what you want to with it bandwidth, stop buying residential class services.
When they figure the pricing on these services they don't figure that the end user is going to slam it at 100% 24/7. This is how they bring the price down. If you were to go to a data center and buy 8Mb of service from any vendor you wont get it for the same per/mb you get at home. You won't even come close. |
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travelguy
join:1999-09-03
Santa Fe, NM
| reply to hobgoblin
Re: Pay per Usuage
said by hobgoblin :I have always thought that customers should pay for exactly how much they use. Those who download 24/7 from Newsgroups and p2p should end up paying their proportion of the cost instead of moderate users subsidizing them. Thus if you want to download HD Movies and TV shows....You can as long as you want to bear the costs. What you may be overlooking is that the internet is a classic example of a business that has very high fixed costs and very low variable costs. Billing by the byte is analogous to billing by the minute for phone calls. It's a business model that is rapidly becoming obsolete.
What ISPs will need to do is come up with a model that looks at total bandwidth used over a period of time (to cover the average size of the pipe they need to contract for) as well as some form of peak time billing to cover the margins. |
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quatrix
Premium
join:2005-02-11
Davie, FL
| reply to Guspaz
Re: Idiots.
Yeah, idiots -- but not the ISPs.
"And here you were thinking it was the network operator's job to fund capacity upgrades in order to meet consumer demand...."
Well, it's NOT. If they don't want to upgrade to meet "consumer demands", that's their business. Take it or leave it. |
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travelguy
join:1999-09-03
Santa Fe, NM | reply to X_Digit
Re: Sad days for UK's broadband advancement.
This post is destined to be a classic. I can see it flying from mailbox to mailbox already. |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| Network Mangers Need to Talk to Content Providers
The issue boils down to a lack of capacity. The problem is that content providers have gone with a 1:1 service through ip rather than a 1:many service using multicast. If content providers and network managers actually thought about the problem they could come up with a manageable solution.
Network operators are just trying to extort money rather than address the problems in a sensible manner.
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Mac Chatter
»www.macchatter.net |
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eco
Premium
join:2001-11-28
Wilmington, DE
| reply to quatrix
Re: Idiots.
said by quatrix :Yeah, idiots -- but not the ISPs. "And here you were thinking it was the network operator's job to fund capacity upgrades in order to meet consumer demand...." Well, it's NOT. If they don't want to upgrade to meet "consumer demands", that's their business. Take it or leave it. Leave it. You know there's going to be some ISP who will be willing to put up with all this bandwidth use and that will happily absorb all the people leaving the ISPs that try to hinder what the user wants to do. |
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Tsume
join:2004-02-23
Johnson City, TN | reply to X_Digit
Re: Sad days for UK's broadband advancement.
Wow, I almost shot soda out of my nose at that one... and I wasn't even drinking soda!
True... sad that it is true, too. Looks like the Comcast ToS! |
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djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
 ·PHONE POWER
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to NOCMan
Re: Network Mangers Need to Talk to Content Providers
quote:
The issue boils down to a lack of capacity. The problem is that content providers have gone with a 1:1 service through ip rather than a 1:many service using multicast. If content providers and network managers actually thought about the problem they could come up with a manageable solution.
I agree that multicasting can solve problems, but in this particular case:
quote:
that lets broadband users watch content from the last 7 days of BBC broadcasting
It sounds like the service is a video on demand type service that multicast wouldn't help with. |
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kaila
join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL
clubs:
| reply to hobgoblin
Re: Pay per Usuage
That's fine, as long as ISP's are aware that the average usage for all users will keep rising, and structure any over usage fees/penalties up front. If they can't or choose not to keep up with bandwidth demands, they'll find themselves nailing an ever greater percentage of users with usage fees, ultimately pricing themselves out of the market. |
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:
| said by kaila :That's fine, as long as ISP's are aware that the average usage for all users will keep rising, and structure any over usage fees/penalties up front. If they can't or choose not to keep up with bandwidth demands, they'll find themselves nailing an ever greater percentage of users with usage fees, ultimately pricing themselves out of the market. The AVERAGE Usage is no where near what the members of this site feel it is. Its the posters that continually brag about what they download in a month that need to bring down their usage or pony up and pay for it and the network upgrades only they are demanding.
Hob |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC | If only...
If only there was some kind of invention that could alleviate the impact...
...some kind of, erm, "thingy," that could -- you know -- cache data that was repetitively accessed...
yeah, one of those cache thingies... |
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