bamabrad
join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL | Moves like this are a sign of capitalism-
just like it is our right as citizens to persuade our government to encourage the companies to keep jobs here-or thru the expenditure of our monies. |
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rolande
Certifiable
Premium,Mod
join:2002-05-24
Powell, OH
clubs: | Wow
As if Tier 1 wasn't bad enough from a communication and resolution standpoint. Now let's dilute the effectiveness of the other Tiers too.  |
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inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK
| sounds like a good plan to me.
If they are "top pay" union jobs then they definitely need to be made offshore. Then ATT can bring those jobs back at a lower pay as non-union jobs.
unions are defunct.
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"WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!" |
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N10Cities
SILENCE I Keel You
Premium
join:2002-05-07
Roland, OK
clubs:
 ·Cox HSI
 ·World Lynx
2 edits | said by inteller  :If they are "top pay" union jobs then they definitely need to be made offshore. Then ATT can bring those jobs back at a lower pay as non-union jobs. unions are defunct. You wouldn't think that was so funny if it was YOUR job being eliminated.... 
Your profile suggest you work in the petroleum industry, so you OBVIOUSLY are overpaid.... |
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indy0365
join:2001-08-25
Franklin, IN | reply to inteller
local 135 here I dont feel defunct |
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claco
join:2002-09-29
Tallmadge, OH
| reply to N10Cities
said by N10Cities :said by inteller :If they are "top pay" union jobs then they definitely need to be made offshore. Then ATT can bring those jobs back at a lower pay as non-union jobs. unions are defunct. You wouldn't think that was so funny if it was YOUR job being eliminated.... Unfortunately, I agree with both. It sucks to loose you're job like this, only to have it brought back later. But I do agree that unions now cause more harm than good in most cases. Their time has come to pass imho.
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Six of one, 1,426/2,852 dozen of the other. |
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Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York | reply to indy0365
Amen brother |
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Enlightener
join:2006-01-28
Cedar Park, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to N10Cities
`top pay` and `union` is an oxymoron.
Unions are completly worthless in the IT field. I grew up in Cleveland, OH where my father was UAW 486 and my mother ( and myself gasp at one point ) where UFCW 880. I know a whole lot about things like strikes, lockouts, picketing, collective bargaining. After 30 years of all out war all of those locals are dead as the companies are gone. One day my dad had to go work at a shop that was gasp `at will`. You know what? They treat him better, give him raises when he deserves it and they are actually profitable.
Why? Because their is finally a relationship of freedom of choice and mutual need. When I worked at a union shop I couldn't get a raise because the contract said so. When I went into IT my salaries were able to explode past my peers because at-will employment works.
And I promise you I make a heck of a lot more money then these `top pay` union jobs and my job is infintely more secure. |
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SteveCon
IBEW 2222 Boston, MA
Premium
join:2004-09-02
Burlington, MA
2 edits | reply to indy0365
I'd bet that nearly all the people that dislike unions either: a) have never been a union member, b) are envious of the wages and benefits union members have negotiated - and that is the operative word here, or c) is a corporate exec that feels his / her seven figure salary should be greater, if it wasn't for those pesky union members.
If a contract is acceptable for CEOs and other corporate execs - why aren't they acceptable for employees?
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United we bargain, Divided we beg! |
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hawgcaller
join:2006-04-24
Stafford, TX
| said by SteveCon :If a contract is acceptable for CEOs and other corporate execs - why aren't they acceptable for employees? Contracts are fine the problem is that Union contacts were negotiated by execs who didn't have the backbone to tell the union "no" and take on their terorist tactics simply because the execs were afraid of telling the stockholders that sometimes they need short term pain to prevent a bigger pain in the future and union officials who were so greedy that they couldn't see the obvious end result of their gorging on the corporate weaknees would eventually lead to the company's failure and loss of the union jobs.
Well, finally they UAW, steel-worker unions, and so many service unions are reaping the fruit of their short-sighted greed. I hope their kids and grandkids can live off of thier savings because the unions have made sure that the manufacturing jobs that made America great have now gone to Mexico and Asia.
-phil |
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inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK
| reply to N10Cities
haha....I'm overpaid because I'm in the petroleum industry. ok sure, whatever you want to call it. it's called following the money bucko....something you obviously can't do in Barling, AR.
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"WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!" |
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CO_Chris
Premium
join:2001-08-28
Broomfield, CO
·Comcast
·Earthlink Cable Mo..
 ·Comcast Digital Vo..
| reply to N10Cities
said by N10Cities :said by inteller :If they are "top pay" union jobs then they definitely need to be made offshore. Then ATT can bring those jobs back at a lower pay as non-union jobs. unions are defunct. You wouldn't think that was so funny if it was YOUR job being eliminated.... Your profile suggest you work in the petroleum industry, so you OBVIOUSLY are overpaid....
Ha thats funny sad but true. maybe they should send jobs like his over there as well? |
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inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK
1 edit | reply to SteveCon
if your position isn't important enough that you can't bargain for your own salary then it isn't a position to be haggled over. a grunt job is just a commodity like anything else that should be left up to market forces to decide the value, not artificial wage inflation through collective bargaining.
I'm guessing that the people at ASI who hold important positions will still be offered jobs, but the positions will change to non-union.
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"WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!" |
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inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK
2 edits | reply to CO_Chris
fortunately I provide value to the company that isn't inflated by union bargaining....and believe me, if the petroleum industry could have outsourced what myself and others do, they would have done it a long time ago. You can't outsource a job that requires a person to be phyiscally present at specific location. We've already tried.
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"WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!" |
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nursemike
join:2001-10-14
Palm Bay, FL | reply to inteller
Here's an idea! Let's outsource all of the CXO jobs to lower paid Indians! I'm sure that the money saved would more then pay for the return of the laid off workers. |
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xrobertcmx
Premium
join:2001-06-18
Sterling, VA
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Here we go again
Another round of offshoring/outsourcing. Sadly, this is from a company that some people will not have a choice about not using.
As for the entire Unions are defunct argument. I've seen four setups. Unions with strange rules that made no sense. Unions which took money and didn't do much. And Unions that you didn't have to join. And non-union employment.
I think modern America owes much of it's prosperity to the Union Activity of the early 20th century. Certainly our middle class and quality of life would not be nearly what it is today. However in modern America they are getting pretty bad name. Sometimes for good reason, I mean honestly why can't I carry a box from a truck to a room if I can lift it and they are all on their 1 hour mandatory lunch and I need that one box...Baltimore 2005. I can plug two poles in together and assemble a booth, it isn't hard and I'm not taking food away from anyone, especially if they are all off, again at a break. --New York 2006. Although sometimes I have to wonder how much is propaganda from companies that don't want to allow unionization or want to get rid of their Unions. I did watch as a nurses union negotiated a better standard of employee health care at the hospital my fathers wife worked at a few years back.
All that aside, the one thing that bothers me today is the complete lack of employee protection. In Virginia we are what is called a right to work state. I have a right to work, and the employer has a right to dismiss me without listed cause at any time. That makes for a lovely feeling of security. So, say I worked for some big heartless corporation. Who is looking out for me? Who is going to address the fact that every year benefits get cut, pay only goes up 3% while the cost of living is rising at 4% or 5%, the fact that it takes two incomes now to just get by where my of my parents was able to actually stay home and we still had a comfortable life. HR? I've not yet found an effective HR employee who was working for the employee. That is not to say I've not seen some good HR people. Management? Right, I won't believe that one again. Definitely not the stock holders. So who? We have a need for Unions, maybe not the same organizations that existed in '50's, but we need them.
Companies are having record years, but employee pay hasn't really risen in how many? Every week or so another major business outsources, lays off, or closes an office/plant/factory/shop and puts more people out on the street to compete for that 1 job still available.
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Retaking our country one election at a time. |
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thisisfutile
join:2006-03-11
Newcomerstown, OH
| reply to SteveCon
Re: sounds like a good plan to me.
Stevecon,
Your finger pointing just highlighted the reason unions need to die...conspiracy theory. Remember, when you point a finger, 3 point back at you. The reason you like your com"union"ism is because:
A) you have never been a business owner (that's a person that takes their hard earned money and RISKS it in our capitlist opportunity system)
B) Are envious (and confused) of the earnings and benefits of those who risk money and become successful business owners.
C) Are a lowly union worker (aka employee) that despises other peoples success and thinks that anyone doing better than them must be lying, cheating and stealing.
I love the idea of a union worker starting his/her own business...and watching his own employees unionize. Then how would he/she feel about unioins...
I leave you with this:
The little red hen finds a grain of wheat, and asks for help from the other farmyard animals to plant it. No one is willing to help. When the wheat matures, she asks for help to harvest it, then thresh it, then mill it, and bake the flour into bread. At each stage she gets no volunteers. Finally she asks who will help her eat the bread. All the previous non-participants eagerly volunteer, but she declines their help and eats it with her chicks, leaving none for others.
That's union workers demanding something for nothing...you're just an employee. If you want more, go bake your own bread...and be confident that when YOU make the bread, then you can decide whether or not you share it.
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Union Moto: "Bite the hand that feeds you." |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs: | Too bad
Most of those guys where great to talk to, except Alim. |
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thisisfutile
join:2006-03-11
Newcomerstown, OH
| reply to nursemike
Re: sounds like a good plan to me.
If you own a train and you have 10,000 in the bank. Your train isn't working and the Engine is going to cost 10K to fix and the Caboose is going to cost 10K to fix. Which do you fix?
The answer is obvious and the corporate execs are the engine of the train on which union workers hook-up to. Yes I'm comparing union workers to the worthless caboose...but that's just for my own satisfaction, we all know they're the axle grease on the caboose because at least then they have a small functional role.
Union Moto: "We deserve more of what we didn't earn." |
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NewMariner
join:2005-06-24
| reply to inteller
Tell me wise one. Why are Unions Defunct? They provide better benefits, better pay for the workers. Why shouldnt the workers make money? The company is. Oh wait your probably apart of the wal-mart mentality where you want everything for free.
Have you ever worked for a Union? |
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