tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
2 edits | Americans?
The only American ISP is roadrunner (nystate)? I'm kinda surprised by that... Of course, the rest of the list is made up of developing countries, so that's not a surprise at all. |
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margaf77
join:2000-12-22
Bayonne, NJ | Cablevision walls them off too
I worked for CV a few years back and they put people into a walled garden if they were spewing garbage. When they called they let them know that the computer had to be cleaned and once they did it they would be allowed back on. |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27 | Apathy...
Maybe when ISP CEOs have CSOs that get a budget to hire staff and resources to implement a policy and enforce it...until then...they placate it as "not our problem". |
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robertfl
Premium
join:2005-10-10
Mary Esther, FL
 ·Cox VOIP
| End User
Most of this stuff comes from end user's PC's sending it. Why ISP's should go to great lengths to educate about PC security.
Even though it's not their primary concern, if they want to stop (or reduce) spam, some action needs to be taken.
-Rob |
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margaf77
join:2000-12-22
Bayonne, NJ
 ·Optimum Online
 ·Verizon FIOS
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to cableties
Re: Apathy...
said by cableties  :Maybe when ISP CEOs have CSOs that get a budget to hire staff and resources to implement a policy and enforce it...until then...they placate it as "not our problem". Its not hard, put the detection mechanism in place, wall them off when it triggers and once they call the #, tell them they have to get their PC cleaned. Its not an ISPs responsibility to help clean it. |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| reply to robertfl
Re: End User
said by robertfl :Most of this stuff comes from end user's PC's sending it. Why ISP's should go to great lengths to educate about PC security. Even though it's not their primary concern, if they want to stop (or reduce) spam, some action needs to be taken. -Rob ISPs shouldn't have to go to great lengths to educate their users, but they should go to great lengths to keep their network clean. |
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Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
 ·AT&T Yahoo
Host:
Chicago
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1 edit | Should they? Really?
I mean on a gut level I 100% agree, let's all champion the internet for everyone. It's attitudes like this that make Spybot great and free.
But from a business perspective, when does it make sense to piss of customers and accept responsibility of helping them clean their machines? there's no money in it, and you'll spend more than you save
I'm just saying....on one hand you've got people wondering why ISP's don't put customers in walled gardens (ACL's), and then on the other hand you've got people who go batshit crazy when you block port 25 or 135 for similar reasons.
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
| said by Dennis :I'm just saying....on one hand you've got people wondering why ISP's don't put customers in walled gardens (ACL's), and then on the other hand you've got people who go batshit crazy when you block port 25 or 135 for similar reasons. I think Comcast really has found the middle ground here. In Comcast's case, they block port 25 on an individual basis when their software determines excessive amount of e-mails being sent out rapidly within a time frame. Which results in the user calling in to find out why they cannot send mail, to be told that they have been blocked because they have some type of virus/trojan. I've seen it again and again in the Comcast forum, where the user then does some more extensive scans (especially on the children's computer) and finds it does in fact have a virus. After cleaning it out, and 24 hours later, they are up and running. |
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GoodDog
join:2000-07-03
Goshen, NY | reply to tiger72
Re: Americans?
Look at number 3 |
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woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA
·EarthLink
·DSL EXTREME
| hmmm......
I fix teachers computers that I work with, when done cleaning up, they promise they will update,run scans, etc. and 6 months later I am doing it again, the price goes up each time, and they still come back....I guess they don't want to be bothered, too much trouble, etc. I guess it will come to a price point that will eventually hurt, but it hasn't as of yet.Go figure, and by the way these are very intelligent (education wise, common sense wise is another story)people.
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Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
| reply to tiger72
So you missed VERIZON at #3 there?
I can just imagine it now:
"Hello Welcome to Verizon Customer Service how may I help you?"
"My PeeCee isn't able to connect to teh intarweb, I see a page that says I have a been disconnected due to a trojan, spyware, or other botnet activity ... WHY DOESNT MY INTERNET WORK - TURN IT BACK ON PLEASE!"
"Well Sir your port has been disabled because you've been sending out spam and your computer appears to have been compromised in a zombie botnet attack"
"I dun care what you say, I have no zombies here, they're only in Movies - I just want checked my d*mn email now TURN ME BACK ON NOW!"
... (rinse, repeat 10x)
Finally the user gives up - "Im going to Comcast, forget you Verizon, my zombie PC is invincible!" |
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Devanchya
Smile
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Ajax, ON
·Bell Sympatico
| Won't change until a price tag is in place
Reality is, it will not change until there is an actual cost associated to it that a board of director's can recognize and prioritize.
That would be in the form of ISP based of fines that occur due to scam/spam on the network.
The balancing act between making the fine high enough to be noticed, but low enough that the ISP does not just send it as another 'fee' to all end users.
I'm stuck between two worlds. I never want to see the PC to become Only a appliance, but a lot of people really need one.
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»www.codecipher.com - Marking the way to tomorrow's solutions |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
3 edits | reply to tiger72
Re: Americans?
The best US ISP appears to be Time Warner Cable which is 96 out of 100 on the list, but when you add in all their Roadrunner entries they stink. Comcast doesn't initially look that bad either, but they are too. They are on the list multiple times with multiple unique ASN identifiers.
So for example when you total up all their entries,
Verizon 2 billion spam msgs/day
TW/RR 1 billion/day
Comcast 626 million/day
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Krispy
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-11
the stix
| reply to Jerm
Re: So you missed VERIZON at #3 there?
said by Jerm :I can just imagine it now: "Hello Welcome to Verizon Customer Service how may I help you?" "My PeeCee isn't able to connect to teh intarweb, I see a page that says I have a been disconnected due to a trojan, spyware, or other botnet activity ... WHY DOESNT MY INTERNET WORK - TURN IT BACK ON PLEASE!" "Well Sir your port has been disabled because you've been sending out spam and your computer appears to have been compromised in a zombie botnet attack" "I dun care what you say, I have no zombies here, they're only in Movies - I just want checked my d*mn email now TURN ME BACK ON NOW!" ... (rinse, repeat 10x) Finally the user gives up - "Im going to Comcast, forget you Verizon, my zombie PC is invincible!" You've worked in an abuse dept I see 
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you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink...you can put a man through school but you cannot make him think --ben harper
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joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null | reply to tiger72
Re: Americans?
And the citizens of South & Central American aren't Americans?? |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| said by joako :And the citizens of South & Central American aren't Americans?? Not in the generally accepted use of the term they aren't.
Why someone feels obligated to point it out every time a poster says Americans(when everyone knows that means people in the USA) is beyond me.
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Internet News
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Krispy
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-11
the stix
| reply to Dennis
Re: End User
said by Dennis :But from a business perspective, when does it make sense to piss of customers and accept responsibility of helping them clean their machines? there's no money in it, and you'll spend more than you save I'm just saying....on one hand you've got people wondering why ISP's don't put customers in walled gardens (ACL's), and then on the other hand you've got people who go batshit crazy when you block port 25 or 135 for similar reasons. You've totally nailed the issues but I would (and regularly do) argue that there is a financial incentive to ISPs taking the extra time. As I indicated in the article last year, I fully believe that the extra time and effort put in to, sometimes, baby stepping a customer through a cleanup and gently explaining why it's important (ie: the malware on their PC could spew the same porn spam they don't want their kids to get, their personal information could be compromised, miscreants can use their infected computer to do bad things that make law enforcement show up at their door, etc) pays off in the end with customer loyalty and these days, when the bundle is king, it's important to keep your customers and their multiple services happy versus frustrating them over and over again with temporarily suspensions or pushing the customer to someone else (who'll usually just blame the ISP). All this is ESPECIALLY important these days as the issue of network abuse, spam, botnets, etc and consumer awareness is just beginning to really hit the general public and non-technical user. It's my belief that an ISP with tools to help clean your computer and staff that will answer your questions on this confusing topic will win out in the end with customer loyalty for ALL their services and not just the monthly internet subscription.
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you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink...you can put a man through school but you cannot make him think --ben harper
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Krispy
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-11
the stix
| reply to Rob
said by Rob :I've seen it again and again in the Comcast forum, where the user then does some more extensive scans (especially on the children's computer) and finds it does in fact have a virus. After cleaning it out, and 24 hours later, they are up and running. The problem is the other users who won't bother or don't know how to make it onto a forum such as BBR to get that help and feel that technical support should help them do this....I suppose you can engage them in a multi hour conversation as to why they're responsible or why Microsoft is responsible or their PC technician is responsible OR you can spend 20-40 minutes just helping them clean their machine and educate them on how to prevent it in the future and then you've got a cleaner network PLUS you've got a happy customer that, hopefully, won't get infected again and will happily relate that story to their friend, family, co-worker who's lamenting having to traverse the "How do I fix this and is there really a problem or are they just trying to rip me off" territory.
I'm not even necessarily saying that this should be a wholly free system and maybe there's room for some additional revenue to cover the cost of that longer call...maybe an extra X dollar charge on their monthly bill if they wish to be transferred to the Tier X support that will do this for them. I often use the analogy of an oil change to explain this...I'm not an idiot and I'm sure with a bit of Google time and some elbow grease I could easily change the oil on my vehicle and save myself $20 but in all honesty that's not my interest so I'd rather pay someone $20 to do it just like some people would rather pay a few extra bucks to have someone help them with their computer versus packing it up and taking it somewhere or meandering through the yellow pages trying to find someone to do it and then trying to figure out who's right and who's wrong in the usual ISP vs Tech blame game. In my opinion, if ISPs want to be the whole deal for the customer (internet, telephone, tv) then they should be the central point of support for the customer so that when something goes wrong they call the same 800 number for support as they do when they want to add an additional channel or service.
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you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink...you can put a man through school but you cannot make him think --ben harper
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Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
1 edit | reply to Krispy
Re: So you missed VERIZON at #3 there?
said by Krispy :You've worked in an abuse dept I see His avatar probably also describes what some ISP
abuse departments would like to do with their clueless,
click on everything, got-brains?, spam spewing zombie
customers, or at least their machines.
Someone in one of the forums mentioned that if human
stupidity were a fuel that could be burned, this planet
would shine brighter than the Sun.
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"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
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cork1958
Cork
join:2000-02-26
Fruitport, MI
·Verizon Online DSL
·Charter Pipeline
2 edits | reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Americans?
said by TKJunkMail :said by joako :And the citizens of South & Central American aren't Americans?? Not in the generally accepted use of the term they aren't. Why someone feels obligated to point it out every time a poster says Americans(when everyone knows that means people in the USA) is beyond me. Isn't that what these forums and all others are all about, to either show your intelligence, or ignorance, or both, if you're REALLY talented?!! 
It's not just Americans, as you're using the term, but you see it on any typo somebody makes, or some other ridiculously simple error that ANYBODY would/should realize was just an oops!! |
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