MarkyD
Premium
join:2002-08-20
Oklahoma City, OK
clubs: | I now realize
I made the right choice in giving my AT&T FTTP the boot.
AT&T: Mediocre Service, delivered. |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
 ·Comcast
2 edits | Great Article!
By far one of the best article on DSLReports to date!
I wish I had added a 2nd part to my question, which was: How does AT&T feel about the current Fiber setups that BellSouth installed (IFITL, DFITL, and MX) and how do they plan to play those into their U-Verse service, at all? Currently, IFITL customers do not need a DSL Modem, rather they plug directly into a 10mb port at the pedestal. Unfortunantely, the equipment doesn't support speeds greater than 1.5/256. Prior to AT&T's merger with BellSouth, Tellabs was working with BellSouth on hardware upgrades for IFITL customers. I'm not sure if those plans were changed, or if AT&T has some idea to incorporate Tellabs technology and offer a different service to the IFITL customers?
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YourIP.US - It's Your IP .. and more!
rr.cx - Personal Site.. coming soon. |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs: 
| Great Interview Karl
Congrats.
Wes, assuming you'll read this which certainly may be the case given you know how skeptical some around here have been..I'll give it to you straight.
First, it's no secret at all that I'm probably one of the most outspoken Uverse critics around this site. Some attribute that to the very false impression that I either work for comcast, or am paid in some fashion by them. Both couldn't be further from the truth. My going on 8 year history here was spent mostly in the RR forum..and I've only been with Comcast since the adelphia buyout earlier this year.
What I am..plain and simple..is a consumer who's simply calling it like I see it. And mainly, comparing it to what I ALREADY have. And that should matter to you because it's what your company is up against.
What I also have seen in my lifetime is one of your predecessor companies..namely ameritech..ALREADY try to enter the cable tv business and try to win not only my business but many other ohio residents as well during my years living there. And, for all intents and purposes..they failed at it. It's WOW (wide open west)..who made it work after you sold it to them. What that shows I think is how hard it is to crack the TV market that is so dominated by the cable tv industry. It's the SAME problem that cable operators have in cracking the telco industry. But they are doing it because of the perceived quality of their Digital voice offerings..not to mention the huge savings people can realize for the feature rich, long distance included..service.
I would start out by saying that I totally disagree with you. I think that 100k customers by now..out of your huge service area and all the markets you're already serving..and homes you already pass..is a failure.
You have 17.3 Million broadband customers nationwide.
And 100k uverse customers. That is not good..no matter how you try to paint it.
One can also look in these BBR forums and see the excitement levels around both your companies and verizons rollout as well. FIOS..is exciting. It's new. It's next generation.
People are clamoring for it...want it. Now.
Uverse? I see VERY little of this. And that's not because I'm down on it. It's because the majority feel this way.
Why do I feel this way? Do I have a personal grudge with AT&T? No. Not at all. It's just that I think your company can, and should be..doing much better. You should be the leader and the one rolling out the real next generation technology to compete with the cable co's.
The problem is several fold. First, entering such an established market..you have the natural decades long affiliation people have with their cable TV service.
And, that's hard enough to crack on it's own.
But yet..you want to do it with your copper lines that simply are carrying with it a decades old stigma. And people question how it's going to deliver tomorrows hdtv..hsi..phone..as you have promised it can.
You are rolling out a service that in terms of speed..is delivering people 6Mb..that's REALLY 5.5 in disguise counting overhead. Mr Warnock..today, I receive 4 times that with comcast. Four times that and we aren't even talking about their up and coming docsis 3.0 rollout..slated to begin next year.
Sir..last year and even the year before..we heard a lot about uverse. But it always seemed to be..hurry up..and wait. And, as you state..at years end..you had 3,000 customers. That gives the perception of problems. Of vaporware..if you understand that term.
And, with people like me simply not believing your companies speech. It seemed designed to head off the competition..to offer something that was still very much on the drawing board.
And today..25 or more markets later..with a LOT of homes passed..it's still 100k customers. That is NOTHING in terms of your service area. You are the largest telco apparently on planet earth now. 100k people is NOTHING and you SHOULD have that many people..even with your rollout in your own corporate backyard.
STOP MAKING EXCUSES MR WARNOCK. And realize the writing that is on the wall.
What is being discussed everywhere is the perceived failure of this service. The lack of excitement about it. And the reasons why people believe this is the case. To simply save AT&T and it's shareholders some money. NOT to deliver a world class next generation product.
WHY..do I care? For two reasons.
First..there is NOTHING inexpensive about Comcast.
It's not overly expensive for what we get..but they operate at this point as if they control the technology world.
And perhaps it's because they DO..and can get away with it.
The cable industries increases the last decade have been HUGE percentage wise...and without real competition..there is nothing that will stop that.
And, I'm trying to give it to you straight..and tell you that if a uverse salesman shows up on my doorstep..there's nothing I see that will sell me on going with AT&T at this point. Is your price less? Yes..I guess so..but so too do you get less. And I'm not interested in less for my money.
And neither is the millions of people who subscribe to cable.
What else do I worry about? This is your NEXT Generation service Sir. This is tomorrow and 2010 for AT&T.
If we're REALLY going to compare this..then we have to compare it with DOCSIS 3.0.
Sir..docsis 3.0 is going to kill your company.
I'm just not sure what you'll have left when that rolls out.
And, I'm not being overly pessimistic either.
I'm just calling a spade..a spade here. From this customers point of view.
You say that uverse can go faster. I hope it can. But what I fear is that you'll be getting into the same scenario that many dsl customers have faced. A service of haves..and have not's. Where some get the higher speeds..and many don't.
This is not the consistent service that cable co's provide for the most part. It's very inconsistent at best.
The bottom line for me is that there is NOTHING i'd like to do more than to see AT&T get with the program. The REAL program. And do what Verizon is doing..and go with FTTH.
As you know sir..that rollout will take years. Which is why it's so important to start now. Verizon management didn't just sit around one day and decide they'd love to have to blow 5 times as much as AT&T is. They saw the writing on the wall. The same writing I suspect that I write about here.
And, you know what? It's paying huge dividends for them now.
Look at the excitement..and THEIR customer growth.
It takes money..to make money.
It is TIME for AT&T to start spending it if you want to reap the same returns.
In closing I will say that there is NOTHING that is preventing me from changing my avatar and BBR name once again..in the future. Nor preventing millions of cable customers from signing on with AT&T.
That depends though, on you...offering US..something we really want.
AT&T...FTTH.
Do it now.
~Rick
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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hahah
@sbc.com | so speaketh THE RICK |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: |  good article, thanks for the answers
I disagree on AT&T's U-Verse strategy (I like the idea of futureproofing, as much as possible), but thanks to Wes and Karl for the good read! |
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Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
 ·VOIPo
·AT&T CallVantage
| Agreed--great article!
So here's the question: Do you go for the whole enchilada at once a la Verizon (FTTH right away), or part-way today, the rest of the way later (FTTN)? Clearly, ATT has chosen the latter strategy. Time will tell if it's the best approach. It's probably more expensive in the long run but less risky.
Would I get U-Verse? I don't know yet. As a resident of a Raleigh suburb, it doesn't look like I'll have the opportunity to make that decision for quite a while yet.  Ultimately, it depends on the packages and prices offered, what TWCNC offers at that time, etc. Right now, we're in a TWC 'grey hole' where we have broadband, but it's only 5M/384k for standard service and 8M/512k for "RR Premium". If U-verse, at 6M down (not sure what upload is rated at), provides dedicated bandwidth(as opposed to a potentially-oversold cable node) and the price is right, such service wouldn't be 'mediocre' around here...   |
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koolkid1563
Premium,MVM
join:2005-11-06
Powell, WY
clubs:
·Bresnan Online
1 edit | Internet Speeds
I love how he dodged the internet speed question and instead talked about the modem's sync speeds.
So what, my modem is seeing max sync rates of 105Mb/s (at 671ft from the DSLAM) and is currently synced at the standard cap of 27Mb/s. That isn't for internet, but for TV, internet, and soon to be VoIP as well. I feel he didn't really answer the question very well... |
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ace1974
join:2007-06-09
Goldsboro, NC
| We Will See
I think Uverse is doing pretty well in my opinion. For a Telco company to come out with this technology I think isn't that bad at all. Their gonna have to do a little more homework on this Uverse to be cutting edge but im sure AT&T will spend the money to do it unlike Comcrap.. AT&T's numbers are gaining ground at a very fast pace in the market being that it's a new technology for them..I think for now that Comcrap needs to worry about their true competition (SATELLITE TV). Thats who's taking their meat and potatoes...
It's strange that people always mention how AT&T are losing landline customers but fail to mention that comcast are bleeding customers like a bad cyst to satellite service. |
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etaadmin
join:2002-01-17
Dallas, TX
1 edit | reply to koolkid1563
Re: Internet Speeds
said by koolkid1563  : I feel he didn't really answer the question very well... He did answer the question... is his corporate hypocritical way.
as the company wants to create "a consistent user experience across the board," according to Warnock.
which means that FTTP/FTTH customers will get the same crappy service as FTTN customers and people syncing 100mbps will will get the same crappy service as the poor souls syncing 27mbps. |
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RR user
@rr.com
| reply to Fisamo
Re: Agreed--great article!
Upload speeds on all U-verse packages is 1 Mbps. I'd take that any day over the 384 Kbps I get from TWC.
I really don't know if this has anything to do with U-verse or some type of VDSL offering, but here in the Raleigh/Durham area I've been seeing lots of large (VRAD-esque) looking boxes popping up. There are utility markings all over the sidewalks and streets where I live, and they have been tearing up sidewalks and running conduit to these large boxes. They don't look exactly like the U-verse boxes I have seen displayed on the site, but they are strikingly similar in appearance and size, the only real difference is that they have double doors.
I recall reading an article before the merger where Bellsouth was planning to deploy VDSL services to a number of metro area's across their footprint and offer speeds of 25 Mbps or higher. Maybe that's it? Because it's rather odd to see such a number of these boxes popping up for no reason.
Does anyone in the Raleigh/Durham area know whats going on? |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| reply to ace1974
Re: We Will See
Satellite has been around a LONG time now. Given that, overall, the cable co's have lost a pretty small percentage of customers to them despite their overall lower cost.
Why? I think convenience is one big reason. It's certainly easier to deal with a cable line coming out of a wall than a dish.
Another reason is there are many people who live in Apts or other dwellings where they don't even have the option to go with satellite..even if they wanted to.
One thing that has certainly helped the satellite providers is the telcos beginning to cross sell their products.
But, we all know the only reason they do that is because they don't have a TV product of their own..for the most part.
While granted, I'll agree with you that perhaps the last couple of years have seen more and more satellite customers..will that continue to be the case?
As verizon and AT&T move into their own products..they'll certainly market satellite less.
Also, cable has what satellite will never have, in terms of being able to bundle voip and HSI.
Don't get me wrong. I think it's good that there is this choice. And, I know that some people swear by their satellite service and I don't take anything away from them for feeling that way.
But it's no where near the threat that voip is for the telco's and their landlines. And, the cable industry is losing nowhere near those kinds of numbers..which seem to escalate more and more every quarter.
The landline business is being attacked by voip..by cell providers..and by dialup customers cancelling their second lines.
That business is in some real trouble.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| reply to RR user
Re: Agreed--great article!
And what a shame it is that they're allowed to do all this tearing up of our nations roads and sidewalks and defacing the publics property with what I can only call all their graffiti markings.
All this to deliver some of us with 1/4 the speeds we already get.
It's so self serving of them and has no ones interest in mind except their own.
It would be one thing if this was to bring consumers a real next generation service like FTTH is.
But..for Uverse?
It's just plain wrong that it's even allowed.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
clubs:
·Cox HSI
| Give me a break
AT&T: who are you trying to fool? U-Verse is hardly revolutionary. Lets see; fiber to the node, copper into the home. I do believe cable came up with that about 15 years ago. Cox is already pumping 12Mbps (and PowerBoosts to 20+Mbps)/1Mbps into my house, and I can have 100 different HD "streams" going at the same time.
Face the music, U-Verse is a "me too" service that's years behind the cable FTTN model its trying to imitate. That's pretty sad.
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"Don't steal. The government hates competition."
Fred Thompson For President 2008 »www.imwithfred.com |
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L337
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Chicago, IL | Sadly I agree with BillRoland. U-Verse is going to be the future but not until you guys catch up with the current time. |
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koolkid1563
Premium,MVM
join:2005-11-06
Powell, WY
clubs: | reply to RR user
Re: Agreed--great article!
The VRAD that services me has two doors on either side as well. |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| reply to BillRoland
Re: Give me a break
And, you ain't lyin either.
In 3 or 4 months time, It will be ten years...count em..TEN years..since I had my first cable hsi connection.
In fact, I was Insights first customer in Central Ohio to get hooked up. (actually..it was the predecessor to insight).
I recall those T1 speeds well. Especially given so many were just beginning to even get unlimited dialup.
Most cable co's bit the bullet very early on..and spent big bucks..especially for those days..to improve their networks to get in the FTTN game. But, even at that..they had something the telco's don't have..coaxil for the last mile.
Today..At&t comes lollying along..promoting their uverse as being next generation. A service the cable co's rolled out so long ago..and arguably, even much better given their coaxial cable last mile networks.
You are right.
Who are they trying to fool?
Obviously, at 100k customers and counting..out of a "uverse" of 17.3 million broadband subs they have..not very many at all.
Sadly, and I do mean that..they're nothing but 10 years late and 15 billion dollars short of doing what it is they really need to do.
I really think they need to understand that this time..I think the cable co's are out to kill them. Triple play..getting in the phone business now..docsis 3.0 up and coming..
It's just all a VERY bad scenario for AT&T I fear.
The GOOD news is, they can still turn it around by quickly announcing they're abandoning this strategy.
And going with FTTH instead.
They don't have much time though.
Not much at all.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
| reply to hahah
Re: Great Interview Karl
Yup...
Its the old BWM/Lexus vs. a Chevy/Lada
People 'WANT' BWM/Lexus at Chevy/Lada prices, and expect Chevy to build a Lexus, or Lexus to cost cut to compete against Chevy.
It won't happen..
Lexus/BMW have their service and customers that expect high end and are willing to pay for it.
Chevy/Lada customers expect a semi-reliable/cheap vehicle.
If Chevy sold a 'Cadillac' (GM, its parent does), then its price is comparable.
Plain old business 101.
Weird thing is that GM suffers ... while Walmart does well. Its product specific... what you 'WANT' vs. what you 'NEED' and are willing to pay for.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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OSPE
join:2005-08-08
Birmingham, AL
| reply to Rob
Re: Great Article!
said by Rob :By far one of the best article on DSLReports to date! I wish I had added a 2nd part to my question, which was: How does AT&T feel about the current Fiber setups that BellSouth installed (IFITL, DFITL, and MX) and how do they plan to play those into their U-Verse service, at all? Currently, IFITL customers do not need a DSL Modem, rather they plug directly into a 10mb port at the pedestal. Unfortunantely, the equipment doesn't support speeds greater than 1.5/256. Prior to AT&T's merger with BellSouth, Tellabs was working with BellSouth on hardware upgrades for IFITL customers. I'm not sure if those plans were changed, or if AT&T has some idea to incorporate Tellabs technology and offer a different service to the IFITL customers? "BellSouth" is still rolling out their FITL-MX platform, and it is safe to assume that there will be a U-Verse solution for that technology, given it is FTTC. I don't know, though, about other services such as IFITL/DFITL/FITL-A. Vendors are still working on new products that will bridge the gap. No primary vendors have "jumped ship" or been cut off due to BellSouth's adaptation to AT&T's deployment strategy. |
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jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
 ·surpasshosting
·ViaTalk
| reply to Rick
Re: Give me a break
said by Rick :The GOOD news is, they can still turn it around by quickly announcing they're abandoning this strategy. And going with FTTH instead. No way man, that's impossible for a company like AT&T. There is no change of them being proactive or agile in the marketplace -- it's a paradox.
Unless someone (who?) buys T and drags them kicking and screaming in a different direction, I predict a 100% chance that U-verse will be fully deployed before they start thinking about what's next. It's ingrained in the corporate culture. |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| reply to en102
Re: Great Interview Karl
But, that's not totally how it works.
For example, when I cut off the landline and LD I was previously paying for..and switched to VOIP..I was literally able to reduce my HSI cost..in this case..comcasts 42.95/mo fee..down to zero.
My argument for a long time now has been that DSL is not the cheap service it has been portrayed to be. Both in terms of the slower speeds..and the landline you're forced to get along with it..it can be downright expensive actually in comparison to the BMW/Lexus you portray a cable hsi connection as being.
Consider for a minute a 1500k dsl connection..(that doesn't even deliver those speeds w/ overhead).
If that's 20.00 a month or 24.00 a month even on a dry connection..that works out to a WHOLE lot more money than my 6Mb comcast connection does at 42.95 month Not to mention the up to 20Mb speeds we get with powerboost when you look at that in terms of the actual speeds you're getting.
DSL costs less..because you get less. And, in many cases..and depending on how it's packaged..cable can actually be much cheaper than a telco solution.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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