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Comments on news posted 2007-09-20 16:53:01: User djeremy directs your attention to this Newsweek report, which explores how AT&T and Verizon are quietly lobbying Congress hard for immunity from a slew of surveillance lawsuits currently winding their way through the courts. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · next

jc100

join:2002-04-10

1 edit

4 recommendations

Immunity

If these companies are given immunity, break out your lighters, as the constitution needs to be burned. Under no guise, right, or reason, were these companies JUSTIFIED in their actions. Any politician that would agree they were NEEDS TO LEAVE NOW. This country is ALREADY going to hell in a hand basket. Let's take a look at Bush's / Republican's overwhelming successes for the past 7 years:

1) Failure in Iraq with no Plan even as Republicans had full control for 6 years. Refusing to let democrats limit power by rejecting any such legislation. Yet, Republicans couldn't run the show when they had full power.

2) Housing market IS VERY ABYSMAL!!

3) U.S Dollar is at a 30 year record low since November, 1976. IE Nixon. Why is it our economy always tanks under Republicans? Regan got us in our first trillion deficit, then Bush Sr, Then Bush Jr. Clinton was the ONLY president to have a fiscal surplus in 29 years (jeopardy question). Amazing, considering Republicans claim to be for small government and fiscal conservancy. HAH!!

4) Now our rights being pissed. NSA wiretapping under Bush. Patriot Act. Military Commissions act denying a trial to anyone Bush rules an enemy combatant (american or foreigner). What's happening to this country? You know something, there are 20-22,000 murders a year in the U.S. There have been maybe 4,000 deaths in the last 15 years from terrorism. (Oklahoma city, School Shootings, Both WTC, Anthrax crap, Unibomber, abortion clinic bombings). Yet, the politicians have been able to strip Americans of their rights without much effort. You have a 100 X more chance of walking outside today and being a victim of a murder than by Osama. However, we have traded our rights away because these idiots in office tell us we need to for our safety. Ben Franklink sums it up. Those who trade liberties for securities deserve neither. I say anyone who supports this crap needs to leave our country now. We are suppose to be a democracy and not tolerate overzealous acts by our government!... And to think these companies want immunity for breaching public trust. The only thing the politicians of past and these companies deserve is to be sued into oblivion and those responsible sent to jail!



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

said by jc100:

Now our rights being pissed. NSA wiretapping under Bush. Patriot Act. Military Commissions act denying a trial to anyone Bush rules an enemy combatant (american or foreigner).
Ever hear of 9/11? Never happened right? The Congress gave the authority to the President 98-0 and 100-0 after 9/11. So he is using it. Thank god he is. No attacks on US soil since then. I wonder why?
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Lark3po
Premium
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL
reply to jc100

Its all Bush's fault everybody knows that...



MacWin

join:2003-06-26
Imperial, MO

1 recommendation

reply to FFH

And I have a wand that keeps Tigers away, how do I know it works, well I've never seen a Tiger around here so there you go it must work.



Lark3po
Premium
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL
Reviews:
·Knology

said by MacWin:

And I have a wand that keeps Tigers away, how do I know it works, well I've never seen a Tiger around here so there you go it must work.


Can you back that statement up? Got a link?


Hehe

@ssa.gov

-1 recommendation

reply to FFH

9/11? Only about 3000 people died! Car crashes kill more than 40,000 people every year (more than 3000 every month)! More than 50% of those are alcohol related!


amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·KCH Cable
reply to FFH

Your narrow train of thought doesn't seem to even have the capacity to entertain any other reasons, so why would you even ask the question?

Not that you'd care, but there could be several reasons besides having a bunch of people sifting through mostly meaningless data about who called who. "Oh look, so-and-so just called his mom and said happy birthday" ...wow that's useful. Time wasted = time gained by the other side. Surely that tidbit of reasoning resonates some brain cells somewhere.

I am always amazed when people can so blindly agree with whatever their television tells them, but then I realize that so many folks haven't got the gumption to even get off the couch for one minute and turn the thing off.

"Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is the probable reason why so few engage in it." - Henry Ford

"It’s not an exaggeration to say the U.S. intelligence community is in a near-panic about this,"

Why? Because they know that they've been doing something illegal by tapping completely useless lines?

Fine by me if we have people who actually tap what they need to tap and get some results. Not fine if they're 1)wasting time, money, resources 2)tapping innocent people for no reason.

They deserve no immunity from this. We deserve the truth. Sadly, even if we get it, I'm certain there'll be so much spin everywhere that by the time people get TOLD what to think, it'll be like cotton candy and they'll eat it up gladly - forgetting that any of it ever really mattered anyway...

[.sarcasm.]You don't matter, we've got people who love gps systems in their cars, 'onstar' to listen to everything, cell phones that'll follow you everywhere (and can also listen to everything unless you rip the battery out), and big brother - who really does love you![\sarcasm]



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to Hehe

said by Hehe :

9/11? Only about 3000 people died! Car crashes kill more than 40,000 people every year (more than 3000 every month)! More than 50% of those are alcohol related!
So what.

Only 2400 people died at Pearl Harbor. I guess the US should have just stood by and said "car crashes killed 40,000 people last year so lets give Japan a pass"

Your point is meaningless.
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Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2

i want Immunity too :)

i want Immunity too
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( . Y . )



AtlGuy

join:2000-10-17
Marietta, GA
reply to FFH

Re: Immunity

said by FFH:

said by jc100:

Now our rights being pissed. NSA wiretapping under Bush. Patriot Act. Military Commissions act denying a trial to anyone Bush rules an enemy combatant (american or foreigner).
Ever hear of 9/11? Never happened right? The Congress gave the authority to the President 98-0 and 100-0 after 9/11. So he is using it. Thank god he is. No attacks on US soil since then. I wonder why?
Because of our ultra secure borders?

jc100

join:2002-04-10

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to FFH

No Attacks? They happen every day right? Do you not recall that there have been school shootings? Wait, those are domestic terrorism. Ah damn, I guess there have been. You damn well know if it was an Arab kid, it would be called that. Every news agency would have been on that like a pack of wolves. So give me a break. Let's not forget the second worst terrorist attack was committed by a White, Christian, American named Timothy Mcveigh. Still, these events are the oddity. We have more problems to deal with in this country when it comes to 20-22,000 Americans are murdered PER YEAR. Crime outweighs terrorism 100 to 1 on any day of the week, considering in the last 20 years, we've had 4000 deaths to do it. In that same timespan, around 500,000 Americans have been murdered. Therefore, Go do some math and you my friend will realize how foolish your statement sounds....Hence, we need to focus our efforts on real problems and not turning small ones into a way to fear monger the public into a drooling stupor.


axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast

2 recommendations

I don't think so

I don't think they should have immunity, some people take their privacy very seriously and these companies sold them out. There should not be two classes of citizen, every American should have an expectation of privacy. It's especially hypocritical given how the government protects its own information by calling it classified.

Just as there should be separation of Church and State, there should be separation of Corporation and State.


jc100

join:2002-04-10

1 edit
reply to FFH

Re: Immunity

There's a huge difference. It's called blaming the REAL ENEMY (IE. Japan) and wrongly pointing the finger at a country who had nothing to do with said attack (IRAQ). Obviously, you failed geography and English to not know that the attackers were 90 Percent Saudi, with the others being from Yemen and Omen. Guess what, there wasn't a single Iraqi on that list. So while all problems must be dealt with, destabilizing the wrong country, and being responsible for over a few hundred thousands deaths, is not a response. It's called ignorance and poor leadership that was looking for someone to blame, without going after the real culprit. If you think terrorism was a problem post 9/11, you now have a country that serves as a rallying call for all who do want to do us harm, be it the small minority. Yet, like any fundamental sect, this minority has the power to do harm. Look at Christianity's wonderful history. Just ten years ago, the Christian Serbs slaughtered 1-200,000 Muslims. So let's not fool ourselves into thinking it's everyone. If you want to believe that, then we have more to fear from Christians and their past than Muslims. That point just needs to be made, since I got a gut feeling you will spin this to mean all Muslims are bad. Wrong. Anyhow, that aside, Congratulations Bush on your overwhelming failures and turning a region into crap. What else do you do for encores? We're all are sitting back at the edge of our seats to see the next idiotic move that will harm us for generations to come.


jc100

join:2002-04-10

1 edit
reply to FFH

delete me. double post.



wilbarger

join:2001-06-06
Quinlan, TX
Reviews:
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·Skybeam.net
reply to FFH

I believe that it was Franklin that wrote "people willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both"

Sadly, our panic over 9/11 has led our nation to this point. We have turned over our rights to the government of the fat cats and we will likely never get rid of the terrorism act and all that it has taken away from us. I want to puke when I think of what we have allowed ourselves to become.
--
Legalize Freedom


tkdslr

join:2004-04-24
Pompano Beach, FL
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Speakeasy

1 recommendation

They have endangered our society.

The teleco's, (SBC and Verison), have endangered the very fundamental underpinnings of our society.

Access to this information without court supervision (warrent) should have never even been considered.

Imagine some select group of people which has unfettered access to every telephone and email exchange in the US. What advantages could one gain with access to such information??

Untraceable insider stock trades, unannounced merger info, blackmail opportunities(including federal judges).

This corrupting temptation is almost beyond comprehension.



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

2 recommendations

reply to jc100

Re: Immunity

said by jc100:

We have more problems to deal with in this country when it comes to 20-22,000 Americans are murdered PER YEAR. Crime outweighs terrorism 100 to 1 on any day of the week, considering in the last 20 years, we've had 4000 deaths to do it. In that same timespan, around 500,000 Americans have been murdered. Therefore, Go do some math and you my friend will realize how foolish your statement sounds....Hence, we need to focus our efforts on real problems and not turning small ones into a way to fear monger the public into a drooling stupor.
So you are suggesting that we ignore terrorism because there are "car crashes" and "crime" in this country?? That argument sounds like it was made by a two year old. As adults, we realize that the "ignore it and it will go away" outlook on life stopped being realistic when we were in kindergarten. Which coincidentally shows the mental capacity of anyone who still believes it.....
--
!

jc100

join:2002-04-10

3 edits

I'm not suggesting we ignore the problem at all. Merely, I am suggestion we focus more of our efforts where they belong. IE, dealing with crime, poverty, car crashes, and other issues that warrant our attention. This is not to say some actions are not worthwhile in terms of REALISTIC security measures in response to recent events. These include increased airport security, having barriers between certain buildings, and metal detectors. These actions are considered common sense and apply to all sorts of issues across the board. However, stripping away our rights, telling us how everyone's out get us, and crap like that simply shouldn't fly. It's one thing to act, it's another to over react and sell people on overzealous stupidity. As adults, we ALSO realize this, too. Obviously, you must have never left kindergarten since you don't, by your own accord.



swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia

1 edit

2 recommendations

reply to jc100

Apparently AT&T is subject to fines that supposedly would destroy the company if the law is enforced. So they're lobbying for retroactive immunity? What about the victims, thousands of Americans who have been spied upon?

And what about the rule of law? Government at every level, from the traffic cop to Congressmen, have to realize that they can't expect anyone to respect law if anyone rich enough can buy an exemption.

If AT&T is too big to be allowed to go bankrupt, then let's punish the all individuals in its management, and turn over the company to new management.

The larger issue is that AT&T was acting as a proxy to violate 4th amendment rights on behalf of the government. I've lost track of how many ways the Bush gang have trashed the Constitution now. They need to be impeached and prosecuted for that and war crimes. I hope it is not too late for USA.


bennor
Premium
join:2006-07-22
New Haven, CT

Has congress done this before?

Has there been any other laws passed by congress that gives corporation(s) blanket immunity from prosecution and lawsuits by their customers?

Giving corporations a pass like this just doesn't sound right. If this happens how much you want to bet other companies like tire manufacturers (like Goodyear), cigarette companies, and the pharmaceutical industry will be clamoring for immunity from lawsuits.

Where will this surveillance of us end? How long before we have our kids informing the government on their parents like 1930's Germany.


Cogdis

join:2007-03-26
Floral Park, NY
reply to tkdslr

Re: They have endangered our society.

Exactly. All these people think that absolute power is ok since our government is "good".
A human being is a human being- nobody is immune to corruption that power can bring.

The constitution included the bill of rights for a reason.


jc100

join:2002-04-10

Hence, there is a saying. Absolutely power corrupts Absolutely. It holds very true here and all over.


66466388

join:2006-11-22

Immunity

sure, go ahead give them immunity
then

they should SUE ALL OF US into bankruptcy, we'll see then who will buy their services.



Dagda1175

join:2001-06-17
Goleta, CA

1 recommendation

Wrong direction from blame

Don't blame the companies, blame congress approving the patriot act which made this all possible.


jc100

join:2002-04-10

2 edits

1 recommendation

Blame is something that can go all around here. I blame the Republicans that overwhelmingly supported this bill. Only one I think descented. Likewise, I blame a large majority of Democrats who went along with this foolishness. However, at least there were SEVERAL (think 62-66 or so total in Congress) that stood against this. I applaud those. To the rest, they do not deserve a re-election With that said, I also hold the companies liable for taking advantage of this situation for their own means. Either they were paid heftily or given favors. No matter which it was, they participated in this sinister act on Americans. Hence, they should not be given immunity. Their CEOS and Board members should be jailed and lawsuits levied against each and every one of them. As for the company itself, one must think about the innocent employees. Therefore, I think all action should be taken against the rightful people, instead of putting hardworking folks out of a job. If this means the owners or majority shareholders are guilty, I say strip them of their stake in the company and toss them in jail as well.


BarneyBadAss
Badasses Fight For Freedom
Premium
join:2004-05-07
00001
reply to jc100

Re: Immunity

incase anyone thinks this is a joke.. read this..

»www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline···ein.html

and if you don't know how to read at least watch this:

»www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline···nt/view/
--
---Barney


Answer Guy

join:2006-07-28
Grass Lake, MI
reply to jc100

I have a great idea. Lets not give them immunity and fine them by law for every single instance of invasion of privacy. When these companies go bankrupt due to the astronomical fines, an overwhelming majority of customer, business and government systems will no longer be able to communicate. As this will no doubt destroy the entire communications network, we can all just sit around our homes and dream of the days of phone solicitors.


moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

1 recommendation

reply to jc100

said by jc100:

There's a huge difference. It's called blaming the REAL ENEMY (IE. Japan) and wrongly pointing the finger at a country who had nothing to do with said attack (IRAQ). Obviously, you failed geography and English to not know that the attackers were 90 Percent Saudi, with the others being from Yemen and Omen.
And you failed history.

Japan attacked us but why was the focus of the war against Germany and NOT Japan? Maybe you forgot or didn't know that FDR a DEMOCRATIC President put out massive rumors that Germany was going to ally itself with Mexico and attack us from the south. FDR was desperate to get into WW2 in Europe but was not allowed to by Congress.

Germany NEVER attacked us. They merely declared war on us. BIG DEAL! Iran has declared war on us when they took our embassy hostage. Remember, embassy grounds are part of the country they represent. They invaded our territory.

As for Iraq, they continually violated UN resolutions. Should we just ignore UN resolutions? Why not kick them out and let them set up shop back in Geneva.

As for Muslims, if they refuse to chastise their more radical brothers, then their silence is their acceptance of terrorist actions.

wispalord

join:2007-09-20
Farmington, MO

Amsterdam, Anyone?

I'm packing, I'm almost ready to believe the country's with little or no government is more free than the USA



No to ESPN

@comcast.net

Ever Hear of Government Terrorism?

Some Germans and Japanese got their necks pulled a bit about 60 years ago due to them being involved with government terrorism.

Issue is that our country does not become the same or worst than what we are supposed to be fighting. For your information our government was forcing the phone companies to install wiretapping backdoors on phone switches well before 9/11. You can draw your own conclusions.