 
Dread
Macs suck
Premium
join:2005-02-28
Bronx, NY
1 edit | Sexy time Awesome, I hope OOL competes with this, I'd love to get more upstream
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48-27 | |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
1 edit | Re: Sexy time said by Dread  :Awesome, I hope OOL competes with this, I'd love to get more upstream Until OOL goes DOCSIS 3.0 the best that they can do is 38/27 (the max that Boost's DOCSIS 2.0 can do before you allow for overhead - I'd say the real max is more like 35/24 or so).
OTOH, while they can install DOCSIS 3.0 capable Head End equipment (which will also support the current Boost DOCSIS 2.0 and Standard Tier DOCSIS 1.1), the support of DOCSIS 3.0 will require that the customer's Modem be replaced with a DOCSIS 3.0 capable one and some splitting of the nodes.
DOCSIS 3.0 gives each user access to more than one channel at the some time BUT does nothing for the aggregate available bandwidth on the node. Only by reducing the number of users on a node via splitting an existent node into 2 or more nodes and spreading the users serviced by the current node between the new nodes can a node's total bandwidth be reallocated to support DOCSIS 3.0's extra bandwidth capabilities.
Activating DOCSIS 3.0 on an oversold node will leave it oversold although not to the same extent since, unless every channel on the node is currently oversold, the unused bandwidth on the non-oversold channels will get allocated to and used by the DOCSIS 3.0 modems. | |
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| | majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY | Re: Sexy time Does this matter if its split between docsis 2 and docsis 1.1?
I thought docsis 2 was seperate from docsis 1.1? Could they convert all the boost users from docsis 2 to docsis 3 and leave the regular users at docsis 1.1? | |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Re: Sexy time said by majortom1029 :Does this matter if its split between docsis 2 and docsis 1.1? I thought docsis 2 was seperate from docsis 1.1? Could they convert all the boost users from docsis 2 to docsis 3 and leave the regular users at docsis 1.1? I'd think that the Boost Users would be offered a faster Tier via DOCSIS 3.0 (since it requires new modems) while the current Boost Tier is left in place. DOCSIS 1.1 and 2.0 can coexist on the node - I am NOT sure if they share channels or if each get their own set of channels. Info on DOCSIS can be found at »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docsis. | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | What happened to NARAD? Google says they changed their name to PhyFlex, and the news doesn't look good »phyflex.com/ lol | |
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| | Done_Posting
Shoot to kill
Premium
join:2003-08-22
Toledo, OH
 ·buckeye cable
| I'm not sure where your numbers are coming from. In my experience, DOCSIS 2.0 enabled equipment maxes out 38 Mbps useable downstream and around 25 - 27 Mbps useable upstream. That's still a far cry from GPON's 2.4 Gbps down and 1.2 Gbps up, but offers more wiggle room than the 30 / 10 scenario you mentioned (which is more reminiscient of DOCSIS 1.1 with a 16 QAM return).
Don't worry. I want 20 / 20 FiOS just as bad as everyone else does too... 
- Tate
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Happiness is an OC-48 in your basement... | |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Re: Sexy time said by Done_Posting :I'm not sure where your numbers are coming from. In my experience, DOCSIS 2.0 enabled equipment maxes out 38 Mbps useable downstream and around 25 - 27 Mbps useable upstream. That's still a far cry from GPON's 2.4 Gbps down and 1.2 Gbps up, but offers more wiggle room than the 30 / 10 scenario you mentioned (which is more reminiscient of DOCSIS 1.1 with a 16 QAM return). - Tate OOPS. Thanks for the correction. I updated my figures in the message but it does not alter my comment that activation of DOCSIS 3.0 would seem to require Node Splits to get maximum bandwidth due to the channel bonding. | |
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| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| And you know what?? that all still doesn't matter here. The big part of this story is that it's a 20M upload tier. (Which isn't anything ground breaking - they aren't the first fiber co out there to offer it. Surewest offers 50 sym)
While 20/20 sounds good, the fact still remains that very very very few people need a 20mb line out. The overwhelming majority of people need download, not upload. Except for the P2P crowd, which most players could care about, the majority of people out there would do fine with a 2mb line out.
If you gave cable customers, on a 3.0 model, even 50 down, they'd be far more than happy. In fact, I think you'd find the majority asking for a smaller tier, less speed, at a smaller price. These ultra fast tiers, to the masses, aren't going to really care.
Now with that said, I will give them credit for making the speed available to those that desire it which is a step in the right direction. I, one that uses the internet daily for my bread and butter, does fine with a 12/1 line and I get along just fine. I also know that much of my need belongs in business tiers. It's nice to see options out there, but I'm realistic in what to expect too.. Again, glad there is a major player that is looking to the future.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..." | |
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Dread
Macs suck
Premium
join:2005-02-28
Bronx, NY
·Optimum Online
2 edits | Re: Sexy time said by Tzale :said by Dread :Awesome, I hope OOL competes with this, I'd love to get more upstream FIOS has effectively killed any competition from OOL if you need serious symmetrical bandwidth. For the average user, 20mbps upload is overkill. But this is truly a major point in American broadband history when a major ISP offers symmetrical fiber @ 20mbps. In other works, this is f'ing amazing. -Tzale I have 30/5 and I'm happy with it, but I'd so dump CV just for the sake of having a symmetrical connection
I'd really use the upload... | |
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: Sexy time said by Dread :said by Tzale :said by Dread :Awesome, I hope OOL competes with this, I'd love to get more upstream FIOS has effectively killed any competition from OOL if you need serious symmetrical bandwidth. For the average user, 20mbps upload is overkill. But this is truly a major point in American broadband history when a major ISP offers symmetrical fiber @ 20mbps. In other works, this is f'ing amazing. -Tzale I have 30/5 and I'm happy with it, but I'd so dump CV just for the sake of having a symmetrical connection I'd really use the upload... Yeah, OOL provides a good connection. I have the standard tier and I'm more than happy with it. But their TV services really lacks and FIOS new deal of a free LCD HDTV and phone+internet+tv for $95/month is too hard to pass up.
-Tzale | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by Dread :Awesome, I hope OOL competes with this, I'd love to get more upstream Lets see: 10mbps upload/node. uhmmmm I don't see ANY cable company able to do 20mbps on the upload at the moment including Cablevision.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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curls310
join:2007-09-26
Hillsdale, NJ | you guys were right on with your guesses you guys were right on with your guesses | |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| Finally ! They are finally giving symmetrical speeds. Now why don't they spread it out over the whole foot print and also start rolling out service more.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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| afro561
join:2002-11-12
Ellicott City, MD | Re: Finally ! Maryland screwed again =( | |
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| | BarneyBadAss
Badasses Fight For Freedom
Premium
join:2004-05-07
00001 | Re: Finally ! it's likely worse than that... I'll bet when it becomes available in MoCo it should be something in the range of 250 / month... 
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Lumberjack
Premium
join:2003-01-18
Newport News, VA
| Re: Finally ! said by BarneyBadAss :it's likely worse than that... I'll bet when it becomes available in MoCo it should be something in the range of 250 / month... And as I said before, for southern Virginia it will be around $700/mo.
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»www.fairtax.org | |
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newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
| said by afro561 :Maryland screwed again =( Yeah . . . we don't even have plain old DSL in my neck of the woods. Verizon told me 10 years before we'd see anything resembling FIOS in my area. I'm not holding my breath.
Thanks for nothing, Verizon.
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Ö¿Ö
The Rules of Spam | Maryland's Newest Anti-Spam Law
Where are we going? And what's with the hand basket? | |
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: Finally ! said by newview :said by afro561 :Maryland screwed again =( Yeah . . . we don't even have plain old DSL in my neck of the woods. Verizon told me 10 years before we'd see anything resembling FIOS in my area. I'm not holding my breath. Thanks for nothing, Verizon. You can't always get what you want....
Verizon stopped rolling out DSL years ago. Don't hold your breath on that. It takes time to roll out the network. You want it, I want it, he wants it, she wants it...
-Tzale | |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia | Seconded! I would consider this a bargain. It's only about $20 more than I'm paying for 10Mb down / 0.4 up.
It may be a long wait out here in the boondocks. Maybe another company will offer something similar. | |
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EverAndAnon
@verizon.net | Ground-breaking... if the TOS says something like "servers welcome!".
What would be the point of 20mb up if you're not running a "server"? | |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia | Re: Ground-breaking... Well, VOIP, games, and uploading pictures to grandma, I suppose, but good point.
They could at least say, a server is OK as long as traffic is low. | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Ground-breaking... said by v35_pilot :Agreed. Personally I am happy with FiOS' 5 Mbps up. I don't see the 20 Mbps upload speed being worth the extra cost simply to upload an occasional picture via email or FTP. (Don't get me wrong, 5Mbps is much nicer than the average cable upload speeds.) Especially since many of the places you would upload to won't accept connections at very high speeds. The actual upload throughput will often be much less that 5 Mbps let alone 20 mbps.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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| | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Ground-breaking... When Im at work there are plenty of places that can take a 85 mbit upload.
I don't know what ragtag hosted sites you visit but almost every host now provides at the least a 100 mbit port. Data coming in is almost always free and they pay on the 95th percentile out.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Ground-breaking... said by BosstonesOwn :When Im at work there are plenty of places that can take a 85 mbit upload. Name some? | |
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Nightshade
sic semper tyrannis
Premium
join:2002-05-26
Salem, OR
1 edit | Re: Ground-breaking... I can think of almost every online game server accepting 20mb throughput. Gamers would just love this.
But yeah for the most part 20/20 would be nice but probably be too much unless you are a gamer in need of that upload bandwidth. | |
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| | | | | | jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: Ground-breaking... Games just don't generate a huge amount of data on a per user basis, and a fat pipe doesn't help at all. Same for VOIP. It's all about latency. | |
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| | | | | | | Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO | Re: Ground-breaking... The reason why you can get 20 through instead of 5 is because it is being sent faster. Faster packets = less latency in almost every case. | |
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AnonymousPerson
@verizon.net | Re: Ground-breaking... It is not being sent faster. It is being sent at a higher frequency, which means more packets per second, not packets at a higher velocity. | |
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EverAndAnon
@verizon.net | Re: Ground-breaking... If you'll check your dictionary, then you'll see that "faster" can be defined as either(/both) "higher frequency" (as in, more frequent) or "higher velocity".
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LilYoda
Feline with squirel personality disorder
Premium
join:2004-09-02
Mountains
1 edit | bandwidth != latency...
You can have low latency on slow speed links. The only impact of bandwidth on latency is the serialization delay, and the difference between a 5Mbps and a 20Mbps upload is invisible (0.3 milliseconds vs 0.075 milliseonds for a 1500 bytes packet)
When you see that an equipment processing delay is around 10 milliseconds, adding 0.3 or 0.075 makes almost no impact.
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"Money and sex, storage and bandwidth: only too much is ever enough"
Arno Penzias - Former Head of Bell Labs, and Nobel prizewinner | |
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| | | | | lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL
| The company I work for hosts applications for the real estate industry. I manage the edge routers, firewalls, internal routers, load balancing platforms and a plethora of switches. We have an OC12 from UUNet Verizon Business and 400mbit link from Cogent (their tiered gigabit product). | |
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| | | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| said by TKJunkMail :said by BosstonesOwn :When Im at work there are plenty of places that can take a 85 mbit upload. Name some? Where to start !
Sun , Redhat , Suse , Ubuntu all of which take contributions of code. I routinely send over 60 mbit a sec to them. @ Sun I routinely receive log and explorer outputs that run over 3 gigs on big clusters.
MS , Comcast , Apple , 1and1 hosting , servercentral.net hosting.
Ok what else you want to know ? Ever upload pictures ? My email server here routinely lets me send at over 130 mbit when I send from a gige workstation. And it's on the other side of the country !
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
Boston, MA
| You need to pay triple for the servers-allowed option, otherwise you're stuck with blocked incoming ports 25, 53, 80, among others.
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Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru? | |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| De milage do vary! I have a server hosted at a FiOS (dynamic IP) site. It's been up for around 2 years and I use it for web, FTP, SMTP (blacklisted, not blocked), terminal svcs and other things.
It also boasts a full time, hardware VPN.
Having the IP addy change 45x/day does make it a bit tough. With no evidence, I believe the addy change is triggered by incoming packets. I have 2 dyndns updaters working to keep up with it.
Certainly worth the cost.
NV
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The More Alike 2 Religions are, the Stronger the Hate between them. | |
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sharkpedal
join:2005-05-04
PA | Tiers Ok I wanna see the prices and that chart shows the Mid-Tier at 20/5....I have the 15/2 service. Do I get a bump in speed...lets hope so  | |
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serge666
join:2004-06-07
Little Falls, NJ | jumping ahead of themselves? It would be nice if my town can at least get FiOS TV before anything else. >:/
what's the hold up!? | |
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| BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs: | Re: jumping ahead of themselves? At least you have FIOS service.
A lot of the folks in the Northeast don't. | |
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serge666
join:2004-06-07
Little Falls, NJ | Re: jumping ahead of themselves? um...I was implying that I didn't actually ._.
it's also sad that the towns around me have the service and mine doesn't. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by BosstonesOwn :At least you have FIOS service. A lot of the folks in the Northeast don't. And us in qwestland have no hope of ever getting it.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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| o2cool8
join:2002-04-19
Miami, FL | Re: Wonderful I would be happy with 15/2 considering I have dsl @ 6.0M/512k | |
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Micah
@berkeley.edu | Re: Wonderful Amen to that ! | |
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richdelb
Go Hawks Go
Premium
join:2003-01-22
Algonquin, IL | drool Drooling for those speeds. | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX | Texans screwed again and we have GPON That upgrade will be on the horizon for ages..
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Mac Chatter
»www.macchatter.net | |
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rockhounds_5
Premium
join:2004-07-29
Lewisville, TX
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Texans screwed again and we have GPON Yes, Texas will get no upgrade and like it. I wonder what the numbers are that governs when they deploy these packages to the rest of their markets? I was told when I called to complain that Verizon is split into to divisions - East and West, which is no news. But West has decided that all of their customers are comfy and cozy with what they have. I really can't complain that much. I like the package I've got now. It's fast enough for my needs. Yes, I feel like we are getting less and paying the same that our eastern brethren are getting. I guess that Verizon West will eventually get around to deploying this package here. If it is simply a matter of what the competition is offering, RR does truly suck in Texas, so what does Verizon have to compete against? | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: Texans screwed again and we have GPON The Tri-state area (NY, NJ, CT) has one of the most ferocious (in competing, good for users) cable companies around. $65 for uncapped (DOCSIS 2 limit) down/5 up. If local cable companies don't compete, Verizon wont raise the speed. | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX | Re: Texans screwed again and we have GPON And Texas has the largest takeup percentage of fios serviceable homes. Guess there's no reward for takeup of the service. We also lead in TV sub's on FIOS TV and we now have less HD channells than the competition. | |
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rockhounds_5
Premium
join:2004-07-29
Lewisville, TX
clubs: | Re: Texans screwed again and we have GPON It's come down to the point for me that there is no real excitement with fios. Maybe I should shop for the best deal? | |
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Assault
join:2001-12-14
Garland, TX | All I want is 20/5 instead of 15/2 like everybody else! | |
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Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA | Wow just imagine... With 20mbps and seeding popular bittorrent files you should be able to see roughly:
172GB uploaded a day
Over 5 TB a month!
WOW! | |
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| CMoore2004
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Jonesville, MI | Re: Wow just imagine... Actually, 20Mbps is almost 211GB/day and over 6TB/month. | |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| They ended it short They didn't even answer any of the 10 questions I sent in before the event even launched.
I really wanna know when they plan on rolling out service in more parts of my area. Right now the only areas houses are more then 400 K in the areas they selected to roll out in. And neither me nor my wife together can afford a home that expensive and still have service.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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Rothan Tik
Premium
join:2000-11-07
Danvers, MA
·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: They ended it short said by BosstonesOwn :They didn't even answer any of the 10 questions I sent in before the event even launched. I really wanna know when they plan on rolling out service in more parts of my area. Right now the only areas houses are more then 400 K in the areas they selected to roll out in. And neither me nor my wife together can afford a home that expensive and still have service. I wish they would, they know the people in this area would eat it up fast. | |
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| Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Well, the median home price in the Boston, MA MSA is over 400k, and frankly our town has a median home price of 500k and still no FIOS. Basically they chose Eastern Mass for roll-out, and probably prioritized by obtainable market share, or competitive degredation, or something that makes sense, since people who rent can just as easily afford the service as people who can buy a 400k house. | |
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HotRodFoto
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO
| Man I want it! Man I seriously want this......what a deal! I would ditch Comcast in a heartbeat! Ain't no Hyundai there Brian Roberts, I think Fios is running you off the road, especially with these speeds and cost! DROOL!
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Capturing the images of Colorado
»jdebordphoto.com | |
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ZB
join:2007-10-18 | 20/20 Anybody here when Pa. is getting it. | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: 20/20 Don't hold your breath.
Verizon seems to make a perennial habit of sticking it to the Keystone state....
I should be bale to get Fios here soon (we were supposed to have it 6 months ago), but from what I hear, the TV roll out has been going slower than Verizon would have hoped. So even with several towns within the CO that serves my area having signed franchise agreements, it may be a while there, too...
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… | |
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| | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
| Re: 20/20 said by N3OGH :Don't hold your breath. That's exactly what I was about to say | |
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travelguy
join:1999-09-03
Santa Fe, NM
| Smart Move FIOS's main competitor is cable and although there's no technical reason why cable couldn't allocate more speed to the upstream link, it's going to cost them a bundle to re-engineer all those nodes and replace the current modems. Marketing 101 - Differentiate Your Product | |
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Dread
Macs suck
Premium
join:2005-02-28
Bronx, NY
·Optimum Online
| said by Anonymous_ :OLD NEWS OLD NEWS OLD NEWS OLD NEWS OLD NEWS » FiOS 20/20 Good job
Capitaine evidant | |
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tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| Want more, $PAY$MORE$ Shrug, $15 more based upon a non-discounted rate.
For me, if I'm uploading.. I can usually wait. I did when it
was 768/128kbit dsl. 20/5 is no different (in the asymmetric nature) Too bad Cablevision can't respond until next year on the upload. They could give everyone the uncapped 38/5 for the $29.95 & play the which matters most to you game.
For the application of uploading pictures.. wouldn't you do that in the background of a 20/5 connection and see virtually no degrading of the 20mbiit downstream anyway?
I would have shown some kind of multi-computer use. That's where they MAY get someone to splurge for 20/20. Based upon 4 computers sharing 20 up 20 down. Can't wait for the commercials to hit the airwaves in NY. | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
2 edits | Symmetrical? AFT!(About Fucking Time!)
All the one-sidedness was getting stupid - no matter what some people tried to apoligize away.
FINALLY FiOS is doing fiber as fiber should be done.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY
1 edit | hmm I will get bashed for this but in NY area I see this as only appealing to heavy users of upload.
Cablevision has a 30/5 package(wich they uncapped the download so theoretically its 38/5) at the same price.
So unless verizon does a heavy marketing scheme as to why uplaod is better I only see heavy users switching to that. Considering the general public would like the better download speeds.
PS boost does not have capped upload either. | |
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DownTheShore
Maddie Knows Poopie
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
clubs:
| Re: hmm It's not just the point that heavy users will benefit, it's that Verizon is pushing the technology and the envelope further. It's not letting things stagnate by saying "oh, that's all "they" (meaning the general public) need". By saying "this is what WE can give you" it will ultimately boot the rest of the ISP's out of their complacency in order to compete with the improving technology.
I may not need it at this point in time, but some do - for whatever purpose - and I'm glad they can get it. Damn, I'm from the generation that went to the moon - I hate it when I read things where people want to throttle back technological innovation and implementation. Go forward, people, don't just run in place!
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Life is simply one damned thing after another. | |
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| | majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY
| Re: hmm I know they are pushing it but this package was a waste of time.
Everybody is saying this will blow the cable companies out of the water. But in the area where they are releasing it is where cablevision is competing.
If they want to push things they have to release a 50/50 package for this price. Do something that the cable company in this area can't do. | |
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alchav
join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
|  Throw in the White Towel........Verizon is the Winner!!!
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See 14 replies to this post |
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Shamayim
I already have a Messiah.
Premium
join:2002-09-23 | Sticking with OOL Nothing in the offer to entice me away from cable--yet.
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"tick...tick...tick..." »www.jtf.org/ | |
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Re: Finally !
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Wonderful
