N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Here come the ham bashers....
I can hear it now, all the Amateur radio bashers calling ham radio a "backwards" technology that no one uses anymore. That BPL is the future, and we should all just deal with it.
When power lines go down, phone lines get wiped out by hurricanes, cell towers get overloaded from use, and fiber optic cables melt from wildfires in California, the hams and their "antiquated" technology always seem to get the message out that loved ones are safe.
Amateur radio operators are still a valuable pool of self equipped and experienced communicators proven to be reliable under the harshest of conditions.
BPL is a still impractical application for broadband...
The FCC should let this technology die. It'll never see widespread acceptance..
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
1 edit |  ARRL has a big legal obstacle to hurdle
The ARRL has an uphill battle here in the courtroom. Government regulatory agencies like the EPA, FAA, FCC, SEC, etc are presumed to be the experts and to overcome that presumption the groups suing them have to present overwhelming evidence that the regulatory agency has exceeded their mandate or have made egregious errors. If the evidence presented is inconclusive or conflicting the judge won't substitute his own opinion over that of the government agency.
The ARRL could very well still win, but the odds are probably much less than 50%.
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jchambers28
join:2007-05-12
Alma, AR | i see a problem
if u bypass a trans former how would thees things work on 7 thousand volts lines and up |
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Piller
join:2006-10-11
Sacramento, CA
1 edit | Could already be causing problems...
"Typically home-control power line communications devices operate by modulating in a carrier wave of between 20 and 200 kHz into the household wiring at the transmitter." Wikipedia.
Peeps are already doing this with X10 and INSTEON.
Looks like this operates right in the middle of dsl.
Oops spoke too soon..."PLC modems transmit in medium and high frequency (1.6 to 80 MHz electric carrier)." |
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lolinternet
@bell.ca
| reply to N3OGH
Re: Here come the ham bashers....
It's especially ironic because BPL is the true "backwards" technology. Lets pump our money into making an exact copy of our existing internet access only using Power Lines.
You CAN service rural areas with BPL, BUT you can do it JUST as easily using phone lines. You still need to run fiber out to the middle of nowhere to service 3 people, no matter what technology you use. |
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Hellrazor
join:2002-02-02
Abyss | reply to N3OGH
When the power lines go down, so will BPL and the HAMS will be ok 
Just kidding.. the FCC is a gov agency, they are always right. |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to jchambers28
Re: i see a problem
Most likely just a signal riding on the wire.
I suspect that whatever bypasses the transformer 'reads' the signal on the highend (i.e. 16kV) and passes that signal onto the 240V line and vice versa.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
clubs:
·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to lolinternet
Re: Here come the ham bashers....
Ham Bashers like ME !!
I'd like to bash the heads of anyone that wants to get their BPL crap within an ITU Region of MY Ham Station. 
Just fire up a few nice 1.5kw transmissions of SSTV or RTTY around the BPL frequencies in use.
Install a few dual winding toroids on your service entrance cables, and modulate RF onto the power companies own lines, just like carrier current broadcasting, use the Power CO's lines as YOUR antenna.
A nice 10,000 foot random wire antenna.
Probably could work EME on 160m AM with that setup.
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"Lithium is no longer available on credit" |
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MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
4 edits | reply to Piller
Re: Could already be causing problems...
said by Piller  :Oops spoke too soon..."PLC modems transmit in medium and high frequency (1.6 to 80 MHz electric carrier)." Right in the requency range used by cable modem upstream data channels....
Good thing cable lines are nowhere near powerlines to pickup the interference that would cause and cable distribution networks are "perfect" closed systems not prone to outside interference...  |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Cable is sheilded.
I suspect twisted pair (POTS/DSL) may see more interference than Cable.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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Ken1943
join:2001-12-30
Brighton, CO
| BPL
One has to remember that BPL is an open system. ONE BIG ANTENNA. It will get into anything around depending on the freqencies used. Cable uses a closed system, coax cable. RF almost never gets out. One frequency used by some cable companies was right in the 2 meter Amateur Rado band. I never had a problem, but it was a great way to find a cable leak. Cable companies don't like leaks.
BPL needs to use very high fequencies, over a ghz. But then they would never be able to afford the equipment if it was even possible. |
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MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
4 edits | reply to en102
Re: Could already be causing problems...
said by en102 :Cable is sheilded. I suspect twisted pair (POTS/DSL) may see more interference than Cable. Never seen a device which links the electrical system in your house with the cable system?
Look at your TV, cable box, VCR, cable modem, etc.... how many do you think are designed to prevent cross talk in those frequency ranges when powerlines never used those frequencies before?
Beyond that cable shielding isn't always effective, especially when people are using twist on connectors, bare coax shoved into the coax connector on their TV, dog chewed cable, and all sorts of other dumb things I troubleshoot on a DAILY basis.
ANY time the center conductor on the coax is exposed, ingress is possible. It happens alot more then you may think.
It's a DAILY duty of cable maintenance techs to monitor and fix ingress issues. I already spend enough time tracking down the HAM, CB, and other signals getting into the system.
Having hundreds of miles of unshielded powerline transmitting a signal just a few feet from the cable distribution system in the frequency range used for return communications is guaranteed to cause problems. Good luck trying to find the ingress point when the source follows almost the entire cable distribution system.
Ever read a complaint here on DSLR from a cable user suffering from intermittent connections or packet loss that tech support and local techs can't seem to fix? Alot of those are caused by noise getting into the cable system. |
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NoOneButMe
join:2001-08-24
TX | Well I think BPL is Stupid Why ?
we dont need BPL |
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qworster
join:2001-11-25
Los Angeles, CA
·DSL EXTREME
·Brand X Internet
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·Vonage
3 edits |  This FCC SUCKS!!!
This FCC could give two squats about Interference. What proof? look at what their IBOC digital radio decision has done to the AM broadcast band. It's virtually unlistenable at night!
The only thing that matters to these crooks is DOLLAR$. They have figured out that they have less than 18 months to rape the country before being tossed out on their A$$e$, so they want to feather their nest as much as possible. First they bent over to the telcos, then the cable industry and now the electric companies....
So, when they get tossed, they'll get some niuce cushy job working as a consultant or lobbiest for the very companies they used to "regulate". |
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michigandave
join:2007-05-16
Fenton, MI
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to N3OGH
Re: Here come the ham bashers....
said by N3OGH :When power lines go down, phone lines get wiped out by hurricanes, cell towers get overloaded from use, and fiber optic cables melt from wildfires in California, the hams and their "antiquated" technology always seem to get the message out that loved ones are safe. Amateur radio operators are still a valuable pool of self equipped and experienced communicators proven to be reliable under the harshest of conditions... »gcaresinc.blogspot.com/2007/09/m···rms.html |
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KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
clubs:
·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to qworster
Re: This FCC SUCKS!!!
Tell these unlicensed BPL providers to sign up for the upcomming 700MHz auction, and bid out their ass if they want to provide licensed broadband services to the masses.
Let them bid for their own licensed spectrum before the try to trod on, and blatantly interfere with, the Ham Radio licensed spectrum.
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"Lithium is no longer available on credit" |
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lordofwhee
join:2007-10-21
Everett, WA
| FCC...
Honestly, the FCC has made so many bad decisions over the past ten years, we may as well not have an FCC. In fact, I'd be willing to bet things would actually be BETTER without an FCC to screw everyone over (except, of course, all the large companies they get kickbacks from). |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: ARRL has a big legal obstacle to hurdle
said by TKJunkMail :The ARRL has an uphill battle here in the courtroom. Government regulatory agencies like the EPA, FAA, FCC, SEC, etc are presumed to be the experts and to overcome that presumption the groups suing them have to present overwhelming evidence that the regulatory agency has exceeded their mandate or have made egregious errors. If the evidence presented is inconclusive or conflicting the judge won't substitute his own opinion over that of the government agency. The ARRL could very well still win, but the odds are probably much less than 50%. I think their chances are better since even the GAO slammed the FCC over BPL and how the FCC favored lobbyist over the public in its decision.
quote:
The report calls this discrepancy an "imbalance of information" and says that it "runs contrary to the principles of transparency and equal opportunity." The report also found some issues with how the commission handles confidential information.
»www.wirelessweek.com/article.aspx?id=153874
Yeah, I think a judge will be asking the FCC a few questions about its methods. |
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zipjay
join:2003-03-11
Louisville, KY | reply to KA3SGM
Re: This FCC SUCKS!!!
thank you |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | reply to MacLeech
Re: Could already be causing problems...
Yeah - it would have access to noise at the endpoints (devices / unshielded points). I can relate to the poorly done coax connectors.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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