S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL | For you
Happy Veterans day to all that served!
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Where have the adults gone? |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
2 edits |  They do allow opt-out like the others
»search.embarq.com/index.php# Why am I here? EMBARQ has enabled a service to redirect web address errors to a helpful search page. You entered an unknown name that EMBARQ used to present site suggestions that you may find useful. Clicking any of these suggestions provides you with Yahoo! search results, which may include relevant sponsored links. Can I opt out of this service? » search.embarq.com/prefs.phpIf this service is not right for you, please visit your Preferences page to opt out. At any point in time, you can opt back in to the service by visiting your Preferences page. 
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
 ·AT&T Southwest
| industry strategy on DNS redirection: strength in numbers
it's clear that industry now believes that since everyone is doing it, why not us? whereas sitefinder/Verisign was a pioneer in this greedy practice and was beaten back from it, now it either has gradually become more accepted by the public or the new strategy is that every isp should do it so it is viewed as normal. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| said by morbo  :it's clear that industry now believes that since everyone is doing it, why not us? whereas sitefinder/Verisign was a pioneer in this greedy practice and was beaten back from it, now it either has gradually become more accepted by the public or the new strategy is that every isp should do it so it is viewed as normal. Verisign may now try again to implement it's redirection since everyone else is doing it.
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floridaguy
@comcast.net | reply to TKJunkMail
Re: They do allow opt-out like the others
nslookup actually returns a NXDOMAIN when I opt out. It appears to not use cookies. Opt-out by default would be better, but doesn't seem like a big deal. |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | reply to TKJunkMail
I agree... an 'opt-in' would be a better practice. This way DNS in general would work as expected for apps beyond browsers.
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kfsutops
Premium
join:2002-08-19
Brandon, FL
clubs:
| Is this really that big of a Deal?
Really,
Who cares? I don't see what the big deal is. Is it installing some software on my computer? No. Big F-ing Deal.
I really don't get what the big deal is.
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"There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots" |
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lordofwhee
join:2007-10-21
Everett, WA
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: industry strategy on DNS redirection: strength in numbers
said by TKJunkMail :said by morbo :it's clear that industry now believes that since everyone is doing it, why not us? whereas sitefinder/Verisign was a pioneer in this greedy practice and was beaten back from it, now it either has gradually become more accepted by the public or the new strategy is that every isp should do it so it is viewed as normal. Verisign may now try again to implement it's redirection since everyone else is doing it. Of course, they aren't one to pass up a source of revenue for long, no matter what the public thinks. |
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Ikyuao
Pro. debian Linux
join:2007-02-26
Wichita, KS | OpenDNS have offer more features already
If cox communication starts like this as DNS redirection feature but what about porn sites? phishing sites? scammer sites? that most cable ISP offer little protection feature so nothing, OpenDNS offers more security features I need. |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
·Charter Pipeline
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: industry strategy on DNS redirection: strength in numbers
I wouldn't be so sure about that. It's one thing for RESIDENTIAL customers to be accepting of this service. It's quite another if business class customers do this.
Notice that Yahoo! is the company supporting most of these services. If Verisign started doing this crap, then that'll be an unfair competition against them. Yahoo! is depending on Verisign to provide a valid "nxdomain" reply in order for this service to work. If they never get one, then Yahoo! will be be out of business.
As an example, it's one thing for Apple to say they only accept electronic payments to buy an iPhone....but it'll be quite another for the government to say you can only use electronic payments to buy and iPhone.
Verisign is the "government" of .com and .net.
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:: my trivial ramblings :: |
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rcdailey
Dragoonfly
Premium
join:2005-03-29
Rialto, CA | reply to TKJunkMail
Re: They do allow opt-out like the others
Maybe they just think that most people want to be offered alternative sites when they mistype a URL. Where's the fun in getting the standard 404 message anyway? |
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paulhaskew
Unoffical Dominos Spokesman
join:2002-01-10
Vancouver, WA
clubs: | bah!
redirection blows, we all know it... private DNS servers FTW! |
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banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
join:2001-08-18
Naples, FL
·Comcast
| reply to kfsutops
Re: Is this really that big of a Deal?
This fundamentally disrupts one of the ways the 'net is supposed to work. To a user sitting in front of a browser, it's not a big deal...they can see that their miskeyed URL or nonexistent DNS query has forwarded to a search portal. But some web apps, services and tools will no longer be able to tell the true result of a DNS query. Every connection attempt will come back "successful" because it is being forwarded to a search portal.
For example, a spam filter might check the domain of an incoming email to see whether it exists or not, as many spams come from falsified domains. Those checks would no longer return accurate results -- every query would return true.
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to kfsutops
said by kfsutops :Really, Who cares? I don't see what the big deal is. Is it installing some software on my computer? No. Big F-ing Deal. I really don't get what the big deal is. Congratulations: you are now ready for a management position at a telco! 
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy
| reply to paulhaskew
Re: bah!
said by paulhaskew :redirection blows, we all know it... private DNS servers FTW! And, if a sufficient enough people start running them to impact their revenue stream, you can expect that they'll start doing port redirects such that it won't matter...
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
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battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000 | reply to TKJunkMail
Re: They do allow opt-out like the others
4.2.2.2
4.2.2.3
4.2.2.4
4.2.2.5
4.2.2.6
4.2.2.7
Problem solved. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
1 edit | reply to en102
I dis-agree that people should opt-in, from a business point of view.
Honestly, I hate the idea and always have. DNS should simply fail. I think that all this redirecting going on will surely drive up the amount of domain sniping going on. There will be more of a reason for dead, garbage domains to be registered now more than ever.
Also, as for the opt-in/opt-out situation... the "average" user often times doesn't know to seek an opt-in. Power users CAN, and will, look for a way to opt out. When that page comes up, they should also put a tool on that very page that says "don't want our "advanced page" then click here to opt-out"... or the opt out should be on the very page they are serving. So, from a management point of view, opt-out make more sense. But, again, they simply shouldn't do this at all.
I'm just curious - with their systems going into place, if you don't find what you were looking for, will the default search engine still open rather than a redirect? I personally like the ugly "page not found" screen my browser gives me. I don't even default to google.com and especially don't default to "Microsoft Dead" either.. but how will this affect that function?
For many of the unsophisticated users on the internet, they think that google or msn IS the internet and they always start from there.
This is a long stretch, but, since these ISPs are getting revenue off of mis-typed domains, I, as a holder of hundreds of domain names, am "damaged" by this action of theirs. I have to pay X amount of money each year for every domain that I hold, yet, an ISP can get benefits from every mis-typed domain entered into the browser and not pay a dime. Since we're in the day and age of suing to get what we want, I'd almost believe there is a little something there..
I just think there is SOOO many things wrong with DNS redirection.
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kfsutops
Premium
join:2002-08-19
Brandon, FL
clubs:
| reply to banditws6
Re: Is this really that big of a Deal?
said by banditws6 : But some web apps, services and tools will no longer be able to tell the true result of a DNS query. Every connection attempt will come back "successful" because it is being forwarded to a search portal. Ok. Now I see a point. I just really had never thought of it as a big deal. You make a good point.
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"There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots" |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to fiberguy
Re: They do allow opt-out like the others
There's no way you could "opt out" of DNS redirection on a web page, unless it required Microsoft Internet Explorer and ActiveX and changed the DNS server specifications in your TCP/IP setup.
What they're offering as a so-called "opt out" is a choice of one redirect instead of another. It gives your browser a cookie specifying error message without ads, or automatically try a different URL. Users who choose one of these are still getting falsified DNS results. To get true results from DNS queries you would have to put the IPs of standards-compliant, untampered DNS servers in your TCP/IP settings.
The latter is what ISPs should be offering for users who want unmolested, real internet. |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia | reply to battleop
Those are Level 3 servers and they're not officially approved for use by random individuals. Level 3 could decide to restrict access at any time.
ISPs should be providing standard DNS servers even if customers have to ask for them. |
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