karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
 ·Fairpoint Communic..
| When are they going to realize
You can't hold on to an obsolete business model. As simple as that. The FACT is that no matter WHAT you produce, be it a book, a song, a tv show, or a movie; if it's digital, it WILL BE COPIED.
The solution is to provide a BETTER PRODUCT at an AFFORDABLE PRICE. Guess why wally world does so well? Because they sell stuff CHEAP. And guess what, all the stuff you buy from there comes from china. Why, because that's the kind of society we are.
You can't impose moral values on an immoral culture. You can't use technology to stop the advance of technology. What you CAN DO, is provide the CUSTOMER (that's right, I use customer, not consumer), with a product they want, at a price they are willing to pay. Hey, If I could get a HD version of Battlestar Galactica BEFORE IT AIRED, for $.99 cents an episode, in a non DRM format, with HD quality, sure, you would get my money. Try and sell me a low resolution version of the show after it airs? Why would I give you my money, when I can get an 'almost as good' version from the scene for free.
media defender and their ilk are the result of the symptoms of what's wrong with copyright laws. Once we get the laws back into sync with society (i.e. 14 YEARS and DONE), you'll see a lot less 'piracy', and a lot more 'advancement of the arts'.
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Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. |
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Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York
 ·PHONE POWER
·Broadvox Direct
·Verizon Online DSL
| I think that's stretching it a bit.
Copyright laws exist to protect intellectual property. Dissimenating, replicating, or redistributing it without the author's consent would constitute a violation.
What's making this debate a heated one comes from both ends. The blatant downloaders who refuse to pay for the copyrighted, yet freely-available content, and the content and distribution companies who want straight into the source and play digital cops across the board.
It is a different society we live in, that doesn't imply everyone is immoral and indifferent to the issue.
What the RIAA and MPAA want to enforce is simply addressed on a case-by-case basis. What they don't want to do is invest in the resources required to do so. I bet if they went after repeat illegal content distributors, the shit would stop. It's apparently easier to hand over that job to the network carriers who aren't in the business of playing digital cop to begin with. |
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DotMac4
Shill H8r
Premium
join:2007-10-26
Huntington Beach, CA | Racketeering
The RIAA and MPAA leadership should be sent to prison for racketeering. |
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Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
Boston, MA
1 edit | reply to karlmarx
Re: When are they going to realize
Aren't ALL business models only viable if the law is obeyed? Like the law that says you have to pay for stuff on the shelves of Wal-Mart. Is the retail business model outdated because ultimately it requires police officers to enforce it? Your argument makes zero sense. Unless you advocate anarchy where all laws are ignored/don't exist?
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Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru? |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
 ·Comcast
| reply to Network Guy
said by Network Guy  :.... I bet if they went after repeat illegal content distributors, the shit would stop. ... I bet if they offered consumers a quality product (non-DRM, high bitrate), that was easy to find, pay for and download, this shit might not stop, but they would make so much money they wouldn't care.
the RIAA and MPAA both have obsolete business models they are trying to prop up by buying laws from congress and suing people. It doesn't sound much like their core business is making and distributing songs and movies as it is trying to scare people to buy their DRMed crap. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to karlmarx
said by karlmarx :You can't impose moral values on an immoral culture......If I could get a HD version of Battlestar Galactica BEFORE IT AIRED, for $.99 cents an episode, in a non DRM format, with HD quality, sure, you would get my money. Once again, given your past comments (and your signature block) I doubt the veracity of your claim.said by karlmarx :media defender and their ilk are the result of the symptoms of what's wrong with copyright laws. Once we get the laws back into sync with society (i.e. 14 YEARS and DONE), you'll see a lot less 'piracy', and a lot more 'advancement of the arts'. I doubt that very much. I don't believe 'piracy' will change any if the copyright time frame is shortened to a year, let alone 14 years. As long as this world continues as an "immoral culture", we'll continue to have entities like Media Defender....and we'll continue having this same discussion over and over again. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to DotMac4
Re: Racketeering
said by DotMac4 :The RIAA and MPAA leadership should be sent to prison for racketeering. And slavery and payola scams.
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nanoflower
join:2002-07-14
30876
| reply to Cabal
Re: When are they going to realize
The natural difference being that with electronic media there is often no physical product to be distributed so it becomes much harder to police any theft. I think the success of Itunes has shown that many people (most?) will purchase the product (even if it's only in electronic form) if it's available. So the RIAA and MPAA can garner more sales if they move to something more like Itunes where customers can save money by purchasing it in an electronic form. Especially if the customers aren't forced to pay for product they don't want (as in the customer only wants two songs out of twelve on a particular CD.)
Now whether they will start providing more media in electronic form is up for grabs. I do see more the networks providing more TV shows in electronic form like NBC with their new venture so there is some progress being made. Eventually most content will be made available in electronic form but it's going to take some time. |
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Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York
·PHONE POWER
·Broadvox Direct
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to nasadude
said by nasadude : I bet if they offered consumers a quality product (non-DRM, high bitrate), that was easy to find, pay for and download, this shit might not stop Downloadable content is still a convenience at best, not the sole next-generation medium.
People are presently willing to purchase and download DRM-infested, low-bitrate crap 'cause they want to. This premise is as simple as supply and demand. Some care about the convenience, some care about the quality. One would shop online for either accordingly.
The RIAA and MPAA are lobbying for anti-piracy laws because they know that right now there's no better way to address the problem other than scaring people to stop doing it. Instead of investing in research for technologies to fend off the piracy, they'd rather slap everyone across with the same pimp hand. |
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Yauch
join:2005-06-24
| reply to karlmarx
said by karlmarx :Guess why wally world does so well? Because they take steps to deter shoplifting? |
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SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| reply to DotMac4
Re: Racketeering
said by DotMac4 :The RIAA and MPAA leadership should be sent to prison for racketeering. No worries. The **AAs will get exactly what's coming to them: ::OBSOLESCENT IRRELEVANCY:: and it will be self-imposed simply because they refuse to adapt and instead seek to cling to an outdated distribution model enforced by their purchased politicos. |
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Jigsaw
Stardust We Are
Premium
join:2000-10-21
Cleveland, OH
·Cox HSI
| reply to nasadude
Re: When are they going to realize
Look at allofmp3.com.They were selling songs yea The RIAA hated them that they sold em so cheap but they did pay the Roms(and when you went to higher bit rates it was alot more money).But to my point at the time it was the second Best place to get Music next to Itunes and they did make alot of money doing it.What i can't believe is the RIAA don't look at this and go Man we could do the same thing and make a killing.Its all Greed its not for the artist they pay them nothing its just there greed pure and simple.
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"It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."-George Carlin
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supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL
·Cox VOIP
·Skype
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southeast
·magicjack.com
| reply to SilverSurfer
Re: Racketeering
said by SilverSurfer :said by DotMac4 :The RIAA and MPAA leadership should be sent to prison for racketeering. No worries. The **AAs will get exactly what's coming to them: ::OBSOLESCENT IRRELEVANCY:: and it will be self-imposed simply because they refuse to adapt and instead seek to cling to an outdated distribution model enforced by their purchased politicos. Never had a chance to advise the RIAA/MPAA but small film and music companys and told them to embrace the new technology, forget DRM, and even use file sharing to promote their product. I actually like 5-7 minute movie trailers. I also like providing 1 minute of a song for free the same way. In other words, let ordinary people be your PR since they do it for free. It does increase sales about 1000% on average. Also, bump music to 326kbps and charge $1.99 a song.
Example:
CD - $16 x 100,000 sales = $1,600,000
MP3 - $2 x 1 million sales = $2.000,000
(Britney Spears new music is making that much)
Small singer:
CD - $9.99 x 10,000 sales = $99,000 (if lucky)
MP3 - $.99 x 50,000 sales = $49,500
MySpace has made indie bands and singers nice incomes.
Take out the cost of the CD and distribution and you make about the same money from ONE SONG. The rest is gravy since bandwith is cheap if you use others to sell it.
Liz Phair made a decent $250,000 a year living as a small singer. She made $2 million on her mainstream Liz Phair (same title) CD.
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Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl |
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Xure
join:2003-11-14
Beverly Hills, CA
| Wake up, the future is knocking...
Copyright this and that, they are all worth only what the audience and consumer can get away with. Nothing more nothing less. These idealized worlds of protecting this and that are just mirages.
I am not passing judgement here, just stating the facts. In the end, the information can not be contained because technology makes it impossible. Rant all you want, you will not change this. Laws, enforcement and scare tactics will pinch a few poor individual but it will never change the big picture. Information will become more and more easy to come by, store, spread, copy, grow. And int he end, all MP3s and movies are some digital signals over some medium. And it will become more and more progressively easier to transfer, store and copy them without anybody being able to do anything.
We have seen the fight go on for years now without even making a dent in the amount of data available for download despite all the anti-piracy efforts. You can quote laws, make them tougher, incarcerate people longer but in the end, a few poor SOBs will "pay" and many will continue. And they will become larger and larger. The industry is already waking up to the situation with downloadable stuff, on demand movies and Netflix type stores but not enough. The gravity of "free" will not be stopped by a few breadcrumbs. It will have to be more than they are doing now.
Oh well, the arguments will continue about the law and punishment, about the morality of it and in the real world, copyrighted material will become more and more available. This has been true for the last 10-15 years... why should it stop being true today? |
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Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY
| reply to karlmarx
Re: When are they going to realize
said by karlmarx :The FACT is that no matter WHAT you produce, [...] if it's digital, it WILL BE COPIED. The solution is to provide a BETTER PRODUCT at an AFFORDABLE PRICE. Actually, that just isn't true. We can buy music through services like iTunes for a dollar, yet P2Ping and public hosting, such as YouTube, of copyrighted music remains prolific.
What you CAN DO, is provide the CUSTOMER [...] with a product they want, at a price they are willing to pay. It would seem even a dollar is too much when it's easily available elsewhere for free. It's simple math for anyone.
Hey, If I could get a HD version of Battlestar Galactica BEFORE IT AIRED, for $.99 cents an episode, [...] you would get my money. You might. But, if the very same thing was just as easily available for free and with impunity....
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I think the internet should always remain open and the burden of protecting copyrighted material should remain with the copyright holder and law enforcement, period. Copyright infringement is a law that has always and will seemingly always be broken. All we can do is keep it in check - like speeding. Most everyone goes a little over the speed limit. But it's few that will do a hundred through town. Law enforcement just needs to catch up and eventually will. |
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Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to nasadude
Perhaps if they hadn't changed to law past rediculousness (Copyright = lifetime of author + 70 years / until they change it to 90/ until they change it to 120) more people would respect it. IMO a copyright should last the lifetime of the author UNLESS it is sold, in which case it should follow patent law, and last 15 years. |
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Technogeez
Gone but not forgetting
Premium
join:2007-01-20
·AT&T U-Verse
·Verizon FIOS
| Isn't It Ironic - doncha think?
That digital media will drive this society back to the norms of the Middle Ages, when great ideas will remain cloistered in small bodies of expertise, because nobody will be stupid enough to publish their works in digital formats.
If you can't count on receiving compensation for the value of your work, you'll quit working. See the Soviet model of production and labor.
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Read your contract and TOS before signing anything. |
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nRecordist
join:2007-11-22
Staten Island, NY
1 edit | reply to Millenniumle
Re: When are they going to realize
You can, but I can't. Because I don't have an iPod.
The worth of digital data is close to nothing. I understand why people aren't paying for digital data. The idea of someone owning or stealing a bunch of 1s and 0s is so obsolete now, which is why I imagine even people of high moral standard don't even see an issue until they read all of these arguments.
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cheap recording |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| said by nRecordist :You can, but I can't. Because I don't have an iPod. You don't need an iPod...just iTunes |
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DSL Oberst
join:2001-11-29
| reply to karlmarx
said by karlmarx :You can't use technology to stop the advance of technology. Actually, you can. No one realizes it, but all that has to be done to really enforce the copyright law is simple:
1) Nationalize the internet and place it in a subsection of DHS called the Cybernetic National Security department.
2) Make this department responsible for maintaining the infrastructure.
3) Place physical gateway restraints on accessing the Internet in ALL forms outside of the USA.
4) Hire a bunch of people, monitor the shit out of it, and come down with a few helicopter and goon squads on 'violators'.
There are ways to legally do this and have it be constitutional, regardless of who is in charge of the government. The only reason it hasn't been done yet is because trouble outweighs reward. Once that changes, look for it. |
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