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Comments on news posted 2007-11-29 12:54:57: Comcast gave a bit more detail on the state of their DOCSIS 3.0 upgrades at the CableNEXT Conference this week in Santa Clara, California. Comcast CTO Tony Werner told attendees that the company hopes to have Docsis 3. ..


swhitney2003
Premium
join:2003-06-13
NH

down/up ratio

Awesome... a 50:1 download/upload ratio. A users upload is going to max out just on trying to download something with this out-of-spiraling-control ratio.

telcolackey5
The Truth? You can't handle the truth

join:2007-04-06
Death Valley, CA

Re: down/up ratio

Where does it say 50:1? Can I call FUD?

swhitney2003
Premium
join:2003-06-13
NH

Re: down/up ratio

said by telcolackey5:

Where does it say 50:1? Can I call FUD?
It doesn't. I was being slightly sarcastic with the way they said upload wasn't a priority.
matrix3D

join:2006-09-27
Middletown, CT
It's called simple math... something you should have learned in high school Algebra class. If they were to offer 50 Mbps down (as the article mentioned, it would most likely be in the 20-50 Mbps range) and you only have 1 Mbps upload that means the download/upload ratio is 50:1. Even the low end of that scale, 20:1, is still pathetic.

telcolackey5
The Truth? You can't handle the truth

join:2007-04-06
Death Valley, CA

Re: down/up ratio

Something you learned before Algebra class is reading. No where in the article does it say the upload for 20-50 would be 1Mb. In fact today the 16Mb tier is 2Mb up and with powerboost people are getting 2M up at lower download speeds.

I don't see why a 50mb would have a lower upstream.

MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Katy, TX
Knowing comcast (At least in my area) they would try to push 50/384.
--
Team Discovery-Join the fight

aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

This should be good for prices.

This is good. More competition might make FIOS lower their prices agin on their upper tiers.

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12

Current Upstream Speeds?

They will probably roll out 3.0 to the highest speed tiers only.

What is the highest speed tier offered by Comcast now - both Down/Up?
--
Pretty Fly for a White Guy™

Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast

2 recommendations

Re: Current Upstream Speeds?

said by Matt3:

They will probably roll out 3.0 to the highest speed tiers only.

What is the highest speed tier offered by Comcast now - both Down/Up?
Some markets are at 16/2, 16/1. But it's safe to say that highest tier offered by Comcast, in all of their markets, is 8/768 (synced at 8800/768)
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

useless...

Why even upgrade if the speeds are going to be in the 20-50 megabit range? This could be done NOW without docsis 3.0

A fully uncapped docsis 2.0 speed would do this already without ANY upgrades. Only areas with docsis 1.0/1.1 should be upgraded to docsis 3.0

a333
A hot cup of integrals please

join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY

Re: useless...

DOSCIS 2 shares the 50 megs among like 50 users, so comcast cant use it to offer those speeds to each and every sub. Now, hopefully, with channel bonding and the rest of it, DOSCIS 3.0 should be able to make those speeds possible.
JerryTongue

join:2003-04-01
Auburn, WA

Re: useless...

They are always behind, trailing behind what someone else is already doing or has already done. Talk now is people dont even care about DOSIS 3.0 They either want fiber to the home or Verizon Fios. All Comcast ever offers is stupid stuff that cost them nothing to put up. All smoke and mirrors. While in the mean time everyone else is gearing up for the already demand like HD, and much faster Internet Download as well as Upload speeds. Comcast is like Washington State Highways
By time they add a new lane we could use 2 lanes. My guess by all the heat about traffic shaping, fear from share holders, and the pounding from the FCC and everyone else and the fact they dont want to put any real money into what they have, they will sell out in time. Never seen them in it for the long haul anyways.

Steely
I rise when the sun goes down
Premium
join:2000-10-15
Princeton Junction, NJ
kudos:1

Re: useless...

said by JerryTongue:

They are always behind, trailing behind what someone else is already doing or has already done.
Exactly my assessment of Comcast since I started with them 3½ years ago after previously having Cablevision/Optimum Online/iO. They should be the industry pacesetters and trendsetters with all the money and resources at their disposal. Instead, they're usually a few steps behind the competition. In addition, they tend to be more expensive.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
said by a333:

DOSCIS 2 shares the 50 megs among like 50 users, so comcast cant use it to offer those speeds to each and every sub. Now, hopefully, with channel bonding and the rest of it, DOSCIS 3.0 should be able to make those speeds possible.
Actually the node shares a few hundred megabits (100-400 depending upon how many subscribers per node (24-50), which could be *split* to accommodate the greater speeds. It's the capability of the modems which can do in 40/30 megabit range:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS

1.x 38-42mbit / 9-10mbits
2.X 38-42mbit / 27-31mbits
3.X 152-171mbit / 108-123mbits

Again, this move means it will cost money to make money to earn back that market share lost to FIOS symmetrical, either way. Keep in mind, the most under-served areas of the comcast network have VERY HIGH node ratios (higher than 50 per node) which scale back the bandwidth all the way down to 1.X mbit per subscriber at $30-65 price ranges which is totally unacceptable in today's market. Might be competition to a QWEST region but nowhere else.

Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
Reviews:
·PlusNet

Re: useless...

said by tmc8080:

said by a333:

DOSCIS 2 shares the 50 megs among like 50 users, so comcast cant use it to offer those speeds to each and every sub. Now, hopefully, with channel bonding and the rest of it, DOSCIS 3.0 should be able to make those speeds possible.
Actually the node shares a few hundred megabits (100-400 depending upon how many subscribers per node (24-50), which could be *split* to accommodate the greater speeds.
Actually Comcast themselves say their average node size is over 450 homes passed and they certainly don't have several downstreams. You can have a vague guess by the different downstream frequencies seen on plant of the same origin but it's certainly not going to be the 10 needed to get close to 400Mbit to a single node.

Even then as the downstreams are not bonded on this gear the maximum available to a single modem is 38Mbit. This is not a limitation of the modem alone but also of the CMTS. The downstreams are discrete and modems contend for bandwidth on each channel not on the entire bandwidth. In at least some areas Comcast use the uBR 7246VXR so can't offer more than 2 downstreams to a node anyway.

50 per node is not a very high node ratio at all. There will be virtually no nodes at all which carry under 50 subscribers. Those nodes that do carry 50 subscribers are probably combined with others as there is no need at all to have nodes that small. a 50hp node is not a node it's FTTK.

alchav

join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT
Reviews:
·ooma
said by a333:

DOSCIS 2 shares the 50 megs among like 50 users, so comcast cant use it to offer those speeds to each and every sub. Now, hopefully, with channel bonding and the rest of it, DOSCIS 3.0 should be able to make those speeds possible.
I agree with a333, Cable Companies and Telco's are laid out differently. Cable Companies work on a sharing Network, while Telco's Network starts at the Central Office. DOSCIS 3.0 or Fiber through a Cable Company will still have limitations. Like I said Verizon FiOS is the clear winner anyway you look at it.

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12

Re: useless...

said by alchav:

said by a333:

DOSCIS 2 shares the 50 megs among like 50 users, so comcast cant use it to offer those speeds to each and every sub. Now, hopefully, with channel bonding and the rest of it, DOSCIS 3.0 should be able to make those speeds possible.
I agree with a333, Cable Companies and Telco's are laid out differently. Cable Companies work on a sharing Network, while Telco's Network starts at the Central Office. DOSCIS 3.0 or Fiber through a Cable Company will still have limitations. Like I said Verizon FiOS is the clear winner anyway you look at it.
You do realize FiOS' BPON and/or GPON architecture is shared at the neighborhood node right, not at the Central Office.
BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Re: useless...

Technicallity , they are shared at the block muxer. Meaning they are shared at the 32 sub block , where its muxed onto the main fiber ring. But in all real world speak they have less people packed on a "node".
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"
UMTSguy

join:2007-01-27
Tuckahoe, NY
ODNs are shared -- a BPON distribution hub (in the metal box at the end of your street) splits 622/155 Mbps among 32 users. In other words, if all 32 Fios users on a hub took 20/20 service and maxed out the upstream they would only be able to get 4.84 Mbps each.

Heyya

@verizon.net

Re: useless...

Thats incorrect. Fios uses two data lightwaves upstream and downstream and both are up to 622mbps on BPON. Plus its using TDM so its not actually shared like cable.

espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2

Re: useless...

said by Heyya :

Thats incorrect. Fios uses two data lightwaves upstream and downstream and both are up to 622mbps on BPON. Plus its using TDM so its not actually shared like cable.
FiOS uses TDMA on the upstream as well to solve the "multiple speaker" problem in the same way as cable. Based on my understanding of FiOS, each neighborhood distribution would share 1 port on the head-end. The downstream light path is split to 32 homes with the head-end being the only speaker so there's no chance of transmit collision. Each of the 32 homes off the distribution node sees the same downstream data feed just like cable. On the upstream each home is fed into an optical combiner to go back to a common upstream node port. The reason you are limited to 155mbps upstream is because of the TDMA timing overhead to ensure that upstream data transmissions are handled in a controlled fashion and 2 ONTs don't transmit at the same time.

The biggest difference is network scaling; Verizon needs one head-end port per 32 homes, whereas Comcast can go as wide as 1 head-end port per 1000 homes in some cases.
BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Re: useless...

said by espaeth:

said by Heyya :

Thats incorrect. Fios uses two data lightwaves upstream and downstream and both are up to 622mbps on BPON. Plus its using TDM so its not actually shared like cable.
FiOS uses TDMA on the upstream as well to solve the "multiple speaker" problem in the same way as cable. Based on my understanding of FiOS, each neighborhood distribution would share 1 port on the head-end. The downstream light path is split to 32 homes with the head-end being the only speaker so there's no chance of transmit collision. Each of the 32 homes off the distribution node sees the same downstream data feed just like cable. On the upstream each home is fed into an optical combiner to go back to a common upstream node port. The reason you are limited to 155mbps upstream is because of the TDMA timing overhead to ensure that upstream data transmissions are handled in a controlled fashion and 2 ONTs don't transmit at the same time.

The biggest difference is network scaling; Verizon needs one head-end port per 32 homes, whereas Comcast can go as wide as 1 head-end port per 1000 homes in some cases.
But did you know that Verizon can also add amplitude modulation on top of the time division ?just by updating the "headend" what it does is functionally make up to 4 muxes able to send on the same light wave at different timing intervals after a handshake , pretty neat stuff I say.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
Reviews:
·PlusNet
said by a333:

DOSCIS 2 shares the 50 megs among like 50 users, so comcast cant use it to offer those speeds to each and every sub. Now, hopefully, with channel bonding and the rest of it, DOSCIS 3.0 should be able to make those speeds possible.
DOCSIS 2 can't offer 50Mbit, you need to come to Europe with our 8MHz channels to see 50Mbit on EuroDOCSIS 2.
majortom1029

join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY
kudos:1
said by a333:

DOSCIS 2 shares the 50 megs among like 50 users, so comcast cant use it to offer those speeds to each and every sub. Now, hopefully, with channel bonding and the rest of it, DOSCIS 3.0 should be able to make those speeds possible.
Then tell me how cablevision is offering 38/5 with docsis 2.

Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
Comcast is entirely DOCSIS 1.1 (the only requirement for Powerboost) with the exception of ex-Adelphia areas that were already 2.0. They will be performancing an in-place upgrade of 1.1 -> 3.0 in the the vast majority of their areas.
--
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?

Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
Reviews:
·PlusNet

Re: useless...

said by Cabal:

Comcast is entirely DOCSIS 1.1 (the only requirement for Powerboost)
Yep that patented Powerboost technology that's a line in a DOCSIS 1.1 QoS config:

Downstreamam Maximum Transmit Burst (bytes)
MOTO6809

join:2007-11-05
Springfield, MA
said by tmc8080:

Why even upgrade if the speeds are going to be in the 20-50 megabit range? This could be done NOW without docsis 3.0

A fully uncapped docsis 2.0 speed would do this already without ANY upgrades. Only areas with docsis 1.0/1.1 should be upgraded to docsis 3.0
They could offer those speeds, but not at the current forward combining they have setup today.. They will more than likely reduce the number of users per downstream QAM , which in some cases means doing node splits. As far as uploading they will need to be at 1:1 per uBr upstream port.

So why rewire everything based on DOCSIS2 when 3 is right around the corner. Not to mention they are not just looking at DOCSIS 3 for fast internet speeds. DOCSIS3 offers a whole bunch of goodies for them.

mike12806
Premium
join:2007-08-28
Newton, MA

Re: Dubious....

wait wait wait......does that mean they will be for sure rolling out 3.0 in these territories....or will they merely have the upgraded infrastructure there to support it? Seems to me like rolling out new cable modems/emta's in 20% of their territory would be quite expensive/time consuming as far as configurations go. On a side note.....are there any Docsis 3.0 emta's available?
ANWDREW0

join:2004-01-21
Sterling, VA

Usless for gamming

I can not say this enough Please give me a reliable
connection I can play on. Its fast but so inconsistent
speed up and down LAg LAg LAg. Fix that and we are good.
Yea I can DL a patch every blue moon fast.. bonus

Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
Reviews:
·Suddenlink

Re: Usless for gamming

said by ANWDREW0:

I can not say this enough Please give me a reliable
connection I can play on. Its fast but so inconsistent
speed up and down LAg LAg LAg. Fix that and we are good.
Yea I can DL a patch every blue moon fast.. bonus
Comcast is one of the most reliable, low-latency connections around. If that is not your experience, you need to call in and have your connection/equipment checked. Lag and high latency are far from the norm.
--
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?

asdfghjklzx5
Premium
join:2004-05-03
kudos:1

Re: Usless for gamming

said by Cabal:

said by ANWDREW0:

I can not say this enough Please give me a reliable
connection I can play on. Its fast but so inconsistent
speed up and down LAg LAg LAg. Fix that and we are good.
Yea I can DL a patch every blue moon fast.. bonus
Comcast is one of the most reliable, low-latency connections around. If that is not your experience, you need to call in and have your connection/equipment checked. Lag and high latency are far from the norm.
Quality of net service is heavily dependent on area. His node might be filled with bittorrent seeders, which would definitely cause lag.
--
Hate your enemies. Save your friends. Find your place. Speak the truth.

gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

2 edits

Rollout

So they are going to rollout a system thats specifications are only half specified, that wont be fully specified till 2008.
And they already ordered the modems in october! Good luck with those modems being compatible with the full docsis3 specs.
If they can fix the upstream channel bonding problems they seem to be having, then buy new modems, re-rollout, win

When was all this supposed to happen? Not 2008.

Im a little confused about why there are certified docsis3 modems, but they dont work with Comcast upstream.

Shamayim
I already have a Messiah.
Premium
join:2002-09-23

Comcast Users To See DOCSIS 3.0 in 2008

Come on, Cablevision! You gonna let them get away with that???

•••

thatdood

join:2002-07-03
Plano, TX

Comcast making a mistake with Upstream

I think Comcast is making a mistake by only concentrating on download speeds at first. Who cares about having a 50Mbps download. Believe me 15 or 20Mps down is plenty for me if I can get the same Upstream.

I hope they get their stuff together and offer a good product with good prices. This may help drive higher speeds and better prices on Verizon's end. It would also help customers who are not in a Verizon area. As far as competing in the FIOS markets they have a long way to go.

I'll stick to my FIOS symmetrical 15Mbps package!

danclan

join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA

Re: Comcast making a mistake with Upstream

thats ok comcast customer ....once you start seeing how your hd offerings are limited due to lack of 6MHz channels...then how good will docis look.....

Im sure someone will correct me if im talking out of my 30mbps pipe....

contractor

@comcast.net

upstream

Comcast probably isnt worried too much about upstream because they know their customers arent either... the people on this forum are FAR, FAR, FAR away from the average internet customer. the best example i can give you is this. Ive been installing modems for them since they came out. roughly between 5000-8000 installs. Out of all those installs at most 5 people in 10 years even mentioned the word "UPSTREAM". and they were IT guys or busineses. Besides them the other 7995 people could care less or does not even know what upstream is or does. that is no exxageration and anyone that has done this day in day out will tell you the same thing.
JusticeDun

join:2004-10-15
Ohio

Re: upstream

Yep, you hit the nail on the head. About 95 percent are pretty much clueless and the ISP's would like to keep it that way.

contractor

@comcast.net

Re: upstream

said by JusticeDun:

Yep, you hit the nail on the head. About 95 percent are pretty much clueless and the ISP's would like to keep it that way.
nowhere near 95 %. more like 99.95 % in my experience that i listed above. I wouldnt say clueless either. Its just that comcast is faster than they use or need and thats all they care about. they were all smiling when i clicked the big blue "E" and thats all they care about.

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

1 edit

Don't Judge Comcast Too Harshly...

...as its vendor (Cisco, presumably) is not putting out DOCSIS3 equipment qualified at the bonded upload speeds, yet.

said by »www.lightreading.com/document.as···site=cdn :
To help expedite Docsis 3.0 deployments, CableLabs introduced a tiered test program for cable modem termination system (CMTS) equipment. The "Bronze" level introduces downstream channel bonding and IPv6, while "Silver" adds in upstream channel bonding. Modems submitted for Docsis 3.0 testing must support the entire specification.

In the first official Docsis 3.0 test wave at CableLabs, which is presently underway, only one CMTS supplier -- Casa Systems Inc. , a start-up based in Andover, Mass. -- submitted a product for "Full" CMTS testing. Arris Group Inc. and Cisco put their respective CMTS products in for Bronze testing.
It should be noted that the 100 Mbps mentioned is a shared 100 Mbps, similar to the 38 Mbps shared we currently have (or more in Adelphia's old areas). A bump from 6 Mbps to 20 Mbps might happen. One from 6 Mbps to 50 Mbps will not. Again, that's Cablelabs, not Comcast.

The Light Reading article also makes mention of the fact that Comcast intends to make use of the DOCSIS 3 abilities to tie the Internet and Television experiences together at the set-top box.

I am worried that Cablelabs is forgetting that downloading creates an upload path of ACKs/NAKs and etc.. I also don't know how much of CATV's own -- if any -- Video-on-Demand freight will be carried over the IP networks. This could make an upstream pipe full of tiny overhead TCP packets. That could mean trouble for gamers and VoIP.

Comcast has been pretty good about staging roll-outs and testing. The last two upgrades landed here without a problem. But if I were them, I would be careful about announcing anything until they've actually run it in a major market and have seen the results.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report.

•••

Realtech23
Premium
join:2006-03-27
Olean, NY

1 edit

What about everyone else?

What about the people who are stuck with terrible phone lines that verizon will not upgrade so you can get dsl or have cable companies like TWC and Comcast run an extra 20 yards of cable just for decent internet but no they rather stop just at a high school screw the consumer, who cares about them as long as the school is taken care of right. My point is this. I think there should be something put in place to force these company s to grow Geologically (more land coverage) before you just go off and give 20% who can get it faster internet than most will ever need while we suffer with satellite internet or dial up. Yes i understand the telcos and cable company's are in it for the money and probably will not make much more by moving into these areas but at least it would benefit people who are stuck with satellite.

EG
The wings of love
Premium
join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
kudos:10

Re: What about everyone else?

said by Realtech23:

My point is this. I think there should be something put in place to force these company s to grow Geologically (more land coverage)
You lookin' for the Earth to move ?
--
Happy Holidays !
komat

join:2007-11-07
Morgantown, WV

wee

be kind of dumb for them to do it in fios area only. they will make more money if they do it in areas where fios isnt unavailable. most fios users are under a 1year contract? or even if its up why would they want to switch if fios is good already

Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
Reviews:
·PlusNet

Re: wee

said by komat:

be kind of dumb for them to do it in fios area only. they will make more money if they do it in areas where fios isnt unavailable. most fios users are under a 1year contract? or even if its up why would they want to switch if fios is good already
If their existing speeds are already the fastest game in town what's the point in throwing money at making it faster still? You do what you need to to remain competitive. People choosing based on speed will buy from you whether you are 2 or 20Mbit/s faster than the competition.
daslog

join:2002-04-10
Milford, NH

The minute we try to use it...

you will get your account suspended for using too much bandwidth.
NetKrazy

join:2007-11-29
Littleton, CO

is 3.0 good bad or indifferent?

Personally I still wonder where the chips will fall in the end. How many people have ordered their 5 and 6mbps service only find that they can barely hit 3. Several people commented on the shared resource, well it's true it is still shared but what's more in several cable environments you are not 1:1 on the downstream path, you may be 1:8 or 1:16 on nodes depending on the location and how your provider built their network. If they don't redo all of their wiring the benefits become a wash. What's a 50mbps service when you are competing with more than 500 people for the same 100mbps total? Even worse sell the users 100mbps while still only having a single 100mbps back-end? Without some major forklifting and conversions to the switched or even IP multicast video services in order re-use some of the total HFC capacity dynamically you can't get around the ratio problem. DOCSIS has for a long time on the downstream had a major shortcoming here(in my opinion) that it doesn't allow it to keep up with consumer bandwidth demands. You have to overcome the hurtle of offering more capacity to the 'group' of users than what can be consumed by 1.

Tell me each section or node group on a plant has 500mbps of internet capacity to serve 500 customers at 50mbps sold to each atleast then I'm at a good 1:10 ratio as apposed to the more likely 1:500 ratio the way it's delivered today in several environments. Consider that only 10% of an area would be able to receive 100% of their purchased service at a given time. Now DOCSIS 3.0 does work if consumers are still sold their 5 - 15mbps services and providers increase the amount of capacity used to serve them. But, this doesn't put the MSO's in the foothold they are searching for to offer the bigger numbers that consumers clammer for. How many consumers are annoyed when their modem service only achieves their marketed speed in the middle of the night? Again this is often the result of only being able to deliver capacity on some really poor total:consumer ratio values. Comparatively, today in several MSO environments consumers receive a 38mbps downstream pipe and are sold perhaps 5mbps of that 38meg stream. Using the same numbers if there are 500 customers fighting for the same service you have capacity for almost 8 of your customers at the same time or 1.6%. So next time you wonder why that iTunes video purchase is coming in so slow in the evening consider this. This doesn't even take into account the uplinks and combined bandwidth requirements of say two DOCSIS 3.0 cmts's in the world of Ethernet and internet transport.

Long post but I wanted to throw in my penny's worth.
CatchingSpy

join:2002-09-08

New Price Package for 3.0

I just got off the phone with Comcast tech support they confirmed my area is getting a new package.

160megs down / 128kb up

New price per month with TV $149.95 per month
Without TV $199.96 per month

a333
A hot cup of integrals please

join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY

Re: New Price Package for 3.0

eggg-sellent.......... now u can burst through comcast's ivisi-caps in approx.....5 mins.
sueeeeeeeeeeett!!!!!!!
FiOS customers, just sit back and relax, and enjoy a new form of entertainment!!

Rexter
YeeHaw

join:2002-11-17
cloud 9

Upload please.

So what will the packages be?
10mB/64k
20mB/96k
50mb/128k
100mb/384k

w00t! I can't wait!