MrMoody
Carbon Based Lifeform
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
 ·Embarq
 ·Skype
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| Free Market
quote:
There is an agenda from a Republican chairman that is anti-free market and anti-competitive.
Now there's a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
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The public is a poor business manager. |
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gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
1 edit | Agendas
Lack of faith |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
| Free market competition is OK in a truly free market
But there's not really any such thing as a Free Market.
Looks to me like the "Free Market Competition" mantra failed dismally with the break up of the AT&T Bell conglomerate, considering they've been reassembling themselves just like "The Terminator".
Then look at the long distance companies ... MCI, Sprint, WorldCom, WillTel. The glory days fell apart.
One of the mantras is that competition will drive prices down. There's a side effect to driving prices down. Companies cut their margins SO slim that they are on a probable suicide mission. The slightest downturn in the economy (such as is happening now) can result in disaster instead of just a rough ride.
The alternative effect of competition is to play the "let's set prices actually higher than our competitor, but entice people over to us with a short term bargain, or bundling. Then we hope they'll stay with us instead of change." Or there's the "Oh look, they've raised their prices ... that gives us liberty to raise ours, even though we don't need to, and we might actually win customers over if we didn't raise them, but we'll do it anyway".
Then there's the monopolistic behaviours of the telcos and the cable cos who have such a huge proportion of the market in their respective areas that they can afford to take the "We're the telco/cableco, we can do what we like" stance, so when they bump prices, because people don't want to change, less than the normal "churn rate" subscribers quit, so it's barely a blip on the radar.
Free market can only work where you're dealing in a market of relative equals. In any other market, the big boys become the bullies and grind the little guys out of business and become monopolistic in their attitudes.
This may LOOK good in some ways, but it is certainly NOT to the benefit of the consumer. Hence the need for regulation, particularly in the areas where spending is not for Joe Public's discretionary dollars, but more for their "essential" dollars. |
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SuperJoker
join:2005-11-21
Yermo, CA
·Verizon Online DSL
·Verizon west (ex G..
1 edit | reply to gaforces
Re: Agendas
said by gaforces  :  Lack of faith Should be interesting with all the players. Incumbent telco's, cable, content providers, and other's interested in getting into markets. With the FCC playing the champion of the people And I foresee that the Rebellion will be crushed.   Perfect reference.
Note: This Joker doesn't work for the FCC.
--
(25.92GHz crunching for SETI with the PC Perspective Killer Frogs) |
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MrMoody
Carbon Based Lifeform
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
·Embarq
·Skype
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| reply to sbrook
Re: Free market competition is OK in a truly free market
Yes. The problem is, having only 2-4 players doesn't make competition. When you only have 1-3 competitors it's much more profitable to cooperate with them and keep prices up, even if the cooperation has to remain unspoken.
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The public is a poor business manager. |
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gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
·Embarq
 ·linode
| What a joke
Smoke and mirrors on both sides...
How about some real rules and regulations to promote real competition, like wholesale access to DSL and CABLE and FIBER lines. Either that, or give right of way to someone who will build out the last mile networks to a common carrier location where one could pick from many different providers of service.
As long as we are locked into these private networks and their limited options and such, it will never truly be an open market, no matter what rules you try to pass.
The government, or some other third party should own the last mile networks. The whole system is broken.
--
Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240 |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | In less than a year
This joker in the FCC will be out of a job anyways. |
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TheGhost
Premium
join:2003-01-03
Lake Forest, IL
clubs:
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·Comcast
| reply to MrMoody
Re: Free market competition is OK in a truly free market
In many places it is even worse, there is at most one competitor. Since the companies are not forced to offer uniform pricing across their service areas, they can keep prices higher in the no competition areas to fund cut rate prices where they have competition until the competition goes out of business.
Also, many times when there are just two options, the oligopoly buddy system kicks in. |
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Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA
·Comcast
·SONIC.NET
| reply to gatorkram
Re: What a joke
"I agree, but I don't agree about your particular regulations." -- Said by me right now.
(and that is the source of the problem.)
Ok, I do have solutions, but they are *my* regulations, not *yours*. Sigh. I wish I could put this together into a profit generating business ... proper regulation ... but by the nature of regulation, it is not profit generating since it is governance and that *costs* money, and therefore it attracts and holds dear those who are not profit-oriented, and those who are not successfully profit-oriented tend to be lower quality and less apt to make good profit-oriented regulations.
I used the wrong concept; "profit" isn't the only concept. Substitute "profit" in the above paragraph with "good for all parties". |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to gaforces
Re: Agendas
said by gaforces :Should be interesting with all the players. Incumbent telco's, cable, content providers, and other's interested in getting into markets. With the FCC playing the champion of the people Perfect picture!
Karl, I vote this title of the year. Good job. |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| reply to gaforces
said by gaforces :... With the FCC playing the champion of the people playing is right. I put this statement:
"Our focus is not on the welfare of a particular industry, but the welfare of consumers and insuring they receive the benefits of competition in the form of lower prices, more choice and better services," says an FCC spokesman.
in the same category as these statements:
I did not have sex with that woman and the U.S. does not torture
I leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine what that category is. |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Comcast calling the FCC anti-competitive
This from the master of predatory pricing.
Guess it takes one to know one. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| said by Dogfather :This from the master of predatory Pricing. Easy to say.. care to back that one up?
Guess it takes one to know one. Isn't the bandwagon full yet? |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
·Cox HSI
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| said by fiberguy :Easy to say.. care to back that one up? Easy. Google is your friend.
»Predatory Pricing in Montgomery County, MD
»www.wideopenwest.com/00_frame_ne···ry4.html
said by wow :
WideOpenWest Files Opposition Documents to Comcast/AT&T Merger
Company Objects to Discriminatory Pricing Practices, and Anti-Competitive Behavior
Warren, MI - April 2, 2002 - WideOpenWest (WOW) announced today that it has sent letters to all southeast Michigan communities served by Comcast notifying officials of apparent franchise violations and discriminatory pricing practices in violation of law. The letters propose that conditions be applied to all franchise change-of-control consents, and seek to assure a competitive market both now and in the future. Comcast and AT&T are planning a merger that would form the largest cable television and high-speed Internet corporation in country.
"Comcast is engaging in rate discrimination, charging next door neighbors using the identical basic cable television service rates that differ by more than $10.00 per month," reported Mark Haverkate, WideOpenWest CEO. "Regular Comcast customers pay the higher rate, but any Comcast customer thinking of switching to WOW gets the deep discount rate. We believe this action is illegal, predatory, and seeks to restore their former cable monopoly. Allowing this action to continue, by an even richer merged corporation, could forever remove the benefits of competition that cities have invested so much to achieve."
WideOpenWest, LLC, The Company
WideOpenWest, a leading competitive broadband services provider, builds and operates state-of-the-art fiber optic networks that offer high-speed connections to the Internet, digital cable television and broadband telephone services to residential and small business customers in select markets across the United States. WideOpenWest's executive team includes proven leaders with broad experience in the Internet, cable, and telecommunications industries. For more information go to: www.wideopenwest.com
Contact Information:
Mark Dineen
mdineen@wideopenwest.com
(866) 496-9669
»'Discounted' Competition |
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grydlok
join:2004-01-06
Richmond, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to gaforces
Re: Agendas
From the master himself. |
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old_dawg
"I Know Noting..."
join:2001-09-22
Westminster, MD
| reply to gatorkram
Re: What a joke
said by gatorkram :The government, or some other third party should own the last mile networks. The whole system is broken. This after all the Karl & Co. criticisms of that mean and
nasty Republican that runs the FCC 
If the Hildabeast rides into D.C. in '09 with the rest of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse, I'm sure she'll take your thought into consideration as "she who must be obeyed" nationalizes all of American industry "for the children". 
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"Our network engineers are aware of the problem..." |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to Dogfather
Re: Comcast calling the FCC anti-competitive
Now.. try putting something in your own words...
You do realize that nothing int hat email proves anything; it's just allegations. To be honest, it was a VERY risky message that could SERIOUSLY have jeopardized WOW.
but, look at this story date.. 2002.
.. like I said.. that Bandwagon must be getting full right about now. |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
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4 edits | Please bother to read posts before replying. It's not an email, it's a PRESS RELEASE describing OPPOSITION PAPERS they filed with the FCC.
I put it in my own words, you say back it up.
I post the links to news items along with FCC petition PR links from a competitor and you say put it in my own words.
Whatever. As other's have pointed out, you are the resident cable kissass and I won't bother going over these cases again and again and again simply because you are a die hard cable fanboi.
Brian Roberts could kill your dog and you would still pray to him. |
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Cliff Robertson
@rr.com
| reply to gatorkram
Re: What a joke
said by gatorkram :Smoke and mirrors on both sides... How about some real rules and regulations to promote real competition, like wholesale access to DSL and CABLE and FIBER lines. Either that, or give right of way to someone who will build out the last mile networks to a common carrier location where one could pick from many different providers of service. Too late. With the end of line-sharing, and the green light to remove copper cable for a fiber monopoly, the goose is cooked.
I would have had telco spin off the copper plant to a newly re-regulated public utility, wherein customers truly do lease pairs, and all clecs/ilecs can sell "enhanced services" til the cows come home. As much as I hate to throw in the towel, I think the moment has passed.
One will hope that telco-based fiber-dialtone will be as reliable as copper-dialtone. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to Dogfather
Re: Comcast calling the FCC anti-competitive
Petitions and Papers FILED STILL doesn't mean a ruling was made...
When you learn how the legal system works, come back and play. Until then, I can file complaints, papers, etc. all day long. It's just one side of the story and doesn't mean anything was found true - at the time.
So, your "Brian Roberts could kill your dog and you would still pray to him." can go somewhere that mods won't let me say here in public.
If you want to come here and post a bunch of half stories and antidotial information as hard core facts and then stuff a bandwagon talking point in return.. you deserve a reply like mine. I'm not here to talk half-ass like some... You made a claim, were tagged wrong, OBVIOUSLY wrong, and the only come back is that I'm here to pray to Brian Roberts? I don't care if it was the phone company on hand here.. I'd still say the same thing... as I would if it were Satellite, etc! The facts are what they are.. accusations are just one side's arguments and your story doesn't prove anything.
I bet you are one of those people that convict people in the news simply because the news compelled you too, right? I'm one of those people that waits to hear the evidence as presented in court before I make any opinions. Thanks. |
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