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Comments on news posted 2008-03-10 12:22:15: We've been tracking the growing number of advertising firms who are using deep packet inspection gear on the ISP network to track which websites you visit, in order to send you targeted advertisements. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next


packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT

Privacy

IF you want privacy.. Don't choose these isps.

Oh wait that's right many isps has a strangle hold on areas.
and force out competition so we really have no choice.

Thanks FCC!
--
Reach out and Tap someone!



W8ASA
Tieng gi vay?

join:2000-07-31
Dayton, OH

Open DNS and a good Hosts File....

do wonders for me. I get far fewer ads on pages I visit because of them. In general, if an ad does not originate from the actual domain I'm visiting, it gets blocked.
--
Microwave and RF Components at www.ohiomicrowave.com


amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22

1 recommendation

reply to packetscan

Re: Privacy

said by packetscan:

IF you want privacy.. Don't choose these isps.
I know you're being sarcastic. But, the ability to shop with your feet doesn't justify everything. Laws were passed describing under what circumstances communications companies can reveal details about their customers. I'm surprised this practice isn't covered by such laws. Even if it's aggregated behavioral information, it's still a detail about you. It's intended to target marketing to you.

I'm surprised 18 U.S.C. 2511 and 2702 don't apply. They're not limited to just disclosure to law enforcement.

»www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html···00-.html
»www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html···00-.html

Mark


AnonProxy
Premium
join:2001-05-12
reply to W8ASA

Re: Open DNS and a good Hosts File....

Open DNS and ad block does not stop packet inspection from your ISP. It's like saying I use firefox and don't see ads.
You don't see them but a lot of the value is not just in seeing the ads but selling your browsing habits.



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Ad profits drive action by web companies

2 current stories on how advertising is driving collection of user info by web companies.

»bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/0···&emc=rss

In a few weeks, AOL plans to roll out an ad campaign featuring a penguin to educate its users on ad targeting. (Yes, a penguin.) AOL says its hard to communicate all the ins and outs of targeting because theyre technical.
quote:
article shows example of the penguin ads AOL will be using
»www.theledger.com/article/200803···BUSINESS
A new analysis of online consumer data shows that large Web companies are learning more about people than ever from what they search for and do on the Internet, gathering clues about the tastes and preferences of a typical user several hundred times a month.

The analysis, conducted for The New York Times by the research firm comScore, provides what advertising executives say is the first broad estimate of the amount of consumer data that is transmitted to Internet companies.

Privacy advocates have previously sounded alarms about the practices of Internet companies and provided vague estimates about the volume of data they collect, but they did not give comprehensive figures.

Web companies once could monitor the actions of consumers only on their own sites. But over the last couple of years, the Internet giants have spread their reach by acting as intermediaries that place ads on thousands of Web sites, and now can follow peoples activities on far more sites.

ComScore analyzed 15 major media companies potential to collect online data in December. The analysis captured how many searches, display ads, videos and page views occurred on those sites and estimated the number of ads shown in their ad networks.

These actions represented data transmission events times when consumer data was zapped back to the Web companies servers. Five large Web operations Yahoo, Google, Microsoft, AOL and MySpace record at least 336 billion transmission events in a month, not counting their ad networks.

Even with all the data Web companies have, they are finding ways to obtain more. The giant Internet portals have been buying ad-delivery companies like DoubleClick and Atlas, which have stockpiles of information. Atlas, for example, delivers 6 billion ads every day. The comScore figures do not capture such data.

A study of California adults last year found that 85 percent thought sites should not be allowed to track their behavior around the Web to show them ads, according to the Samuelson Law, Technology & Public Policy Clinic at the University of California at Berkeley, which conducted the study.
People may not like it, but it hasn't slowed the growth of data collection one bit.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Read Your ISP's "Privacy" Statement

Most of these actions are covered in the privacy statements that you implicitly agree by receiving the statement and not opting out. This is not different than a company obtaining your "consent" via their privacy statement to sell your information to their "marketing partners". Sadly, a majority of people ignore ToS, AUP, Privacy Statements, etc. and just pay their monthly bills with no comprehension of what they've agreed to.


dualsub2006

join:2007-07-18
Newport, KY
reply to AnonProxy

Re: Open DNS and a good Hosts File....

But if enough people block the ads then your browsing habits are worthless. It isn't worth buying my browsing history if you cannot serve me ads based on that information.

If there were no value in the data the data would be unsold. It's easy really. Given the free options that exist to keep your ISP from thrusting this kind of intrusion on you there is really no excuse for this.

Again, if these companies could not make money by serving ads from the purchase of this data then they would not buy it. Simple.


amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22
reply to AnonProxy

said by AnonProxy:

You don't see them but a lot of the value is not just in seeing the ads but selling your browsing habits.
Semi-related question: I just began using Adblock Plus (»adblockplus.org/en/). Does it block the cookies associated with ads, or just the image display?

Mark

amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22
reply to openbox9

Re: Read Your ISP's "Privacy" Statement

said by openbox9:

This is not different than a company obtaining your "consent" via their privacy statement to sell your information to their "marketing partners".
I think there's a difference between eTrade selling my name and address to their partners (to target investment products to me in junk mail) and them selling specific information about my investments, trades, how much money I have, the financial institutions I transfer it to/from.

That's why I think those two laws mentioned earlier in the thread apply (or should apply). What ISPs are doing is essentially disclosing details about your communications (not just your subscription).

Mark

Necronomikro

join:2005-09-01
reply to amigo_boy

Re: Open DNS and a good Hosts File....

said by amigo_boy:

said by AnonProxy:

You don't see them but a lot of the value is not just in seeing the ads but selling your browsing habits.
Semi-related question: I just began using Adblock Plus (»adblockplus.org/en/). Does it block the cookies associated with ads, or just the image display?

Mark
It can, if you subscribe to one of the helper lists that specify that it helps block tracking sites.


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com

While we are at it....

Its time to outlaw those stupid cards that some grocery stores use that enable you to save more off the price of your groceries. We have a local store that likes to bring the price of a grocery product down .20 cents if you have their card. What they don't tell you is that the card tracks your eating habits and they sell those to whomever they please or use it themselves.

Lets face facts here. Our habits are more easily tracked now than they ever were before. Our credit card companies are tracking our habits by how we use our cards. Do we buy from newegg a lot? If so, then these companies may be of interest. Even cash is easily tracked now by a little magnetic strip inside the bills that we have. I have heard of casinos that have installed devices that tell how much someone has when they walk through the door. Then, the people in the casino know if they should treat these people extra nice.

So whats a consumer to do? Here are some things I would do to keep you sane in this world of privacy invasion.

Get a separate phone line for all that spam and other garbage. We have a line at home that I bought as a $10 extra line on our cell phone plan. It sits on a charger at home with the volume turned off. Every day it gets hit with at least 10 calls from solicitors and so on. Whenever I fill out a form asking for my contact info, I use that line. I check the messages once a week and I typically have about 10 crap voice mails to clean off that phone by then.

Get a good antispam product. I use google mail which works great and is free.

Get a mailbox without a newspaper holder. Its illegal for someone to open your mailbox and throw junk mail in unless they are a postal employee. I have people driving up and down my road all the time throwing junk mail and free advertisement newspapers in that holder. The people who don't have a holder they just drive by.

Lastly, don't panic. Personally, I could care less if a company knows where I go on the internet. Nothing we are doing on the internet is private anyway. I could also care less if a store knows I eat Chips Ahoy cookies.

There is no way that government is going to come down on companies like this and stop this kind of privacy invasion. Consumer groups already tried that with the do not call list and while it did work for all the cold calls, I still get telemarketer calls on my phone because I have done business (IE bought something) with one of their partners. My advice is to vote your elected officials into office that are against this kind of thing. Best thing you can do at this stage of the game.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net


kelso2

join:2007-04-06
Ashburn, VA

privoxy free, hope it helps

I use privoxy on my home network.
Sure hope it helps with privacy.
I sure does help cut down on internet junk while I surf.

Free utility at »www.privoxy.org
Wikipedia description at »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privoxy


amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22
reply to Nightfall

Re: While we are at it....

said by Nightfall:

Its time to outlaw those stupid cards that some grocery stores use that enable you to save more off the price of your groceries.
Just fill in bogus information in the application for the card. I happen to be Captain Nimrod, 45 E Adventure St, Apt -125.

I have a couple cards not tied to anyone because they let me take the application home (and I never returned it).

Mark

ross7

join:2000-08-16
reply to openbox9

Re: Read Your ISP's "Privacy" Statement

said by openbox9:

Most of these actions are covered in the privacy statements that you implicitly agree by receiving the statement and not opting out. This is not different than a company obtaining your "consent" via their privacy statement to sell your information to their "marketing partners". Sadly, a majority of people ignore ToS, AUP, Privacy Statements, etc. and just pay their monthly bills with no comprehension of what they've agreed to.
Are you implying consumers/customers actually have a choice in the matter, or that terms are negotiated with your ISP? Do you mean to imply there are laws which protect consumers/customers from these predatory business practices? People have little choice among ISPs, and even less choice re the terms of ISP services. This entire subject begs for legislative action. Especially, since the FCC and FTC have chosen to look the other way.

ross7

join:2000-08-16
reply to amigo_boy

Re: While we are at it....

said by amigo_boy:

Just fill in bogus information in the application for the card. I happen to be Captain Nimrod, 45 E Adventure St, Apt -125...
Yes, you are...(couldn't resist a straight line like that one!)


swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
reply to packetscan

Re: Privacy

The important issue is not whether it's opt-in or opt-out. The real problem is that the ISP is diverting the customer's traffic into the 3rd-party machine. (See this link »www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/07···rtegrul/ for a full explanation of how it works.)

Yes, Phorm claims that it anonymizes the data, and that the company is audited, and so on. But I predict that as soon as the publicity fades, the company will change the terms and start data-mining without any restraints - including personal information. Besides, the ISP can at any time contract with some other company that offers money for subscribers' data, and it may not even promise respect for privacy like Phorm.

This does need to be restrained by law. I don't think many users would agree to it if they were given a chance to opt in or out, with full information, separately from the ISP contract.



hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1

Another reason...

that captiolism isn't always good.

Captiolism works mostly in favor of big business.

**anticipates the move to china or commie comments to soon follow**
--
Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people.


openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to ross7

Re: Read Your ISP's "Privacy" Statement

I'm implying that you have options to opt out of a lot of things that ISPs (and many other businesses) do with some of your personal information. I'm also implying that if you as a consumer don't take action to protect yourself as much as possible, then you shouldn't expect anybody else to do so? As for choice, there's always a choice. You might not like your option(s), but you do have an option to choose. Why are many people so eager to jump on the legislation bandwagon?


openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to hopeflicker

Re: Another reason...

said by hopeflicker:

**anticipates the move to china or commie comments to soon follow**
Nah, you're welcome to stay here as long as I can maintain class separation and continue to make my wealth off of your sweat and hard work


hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1

said by openbox9:

said by hopeflicker:

**anticipates the move to china or commie comments to soon follow**
Nah, you're welcome to stay here as long as I can maintain class separation and continue to make my wealth off of your sweat and hard work
and yet another reason that captiolism can be a bad thing; human exploitation

**again anticipates the "move to china" or "commie" comments to soon follow**
--
Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people.


Titus
Mr Gradenko

join:2004-06-26
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Embarq Now Centu..
reply to amigo_boy

Re: While we are at it....

said by amigo_boy:

said by Nightfall:

Its time to outlaw those stupid cards that some grocery stores use that enable you to save more off the price of your groceries.
Just fill in bogus information in the application for the card. I happen to be Captain Nimrod, 45 E Adventure St, Apt -125.

I have a couple cards not tied to anyone because they let me take the application home (and I never returned it).
And don't forget to return all those postage-paid return envelopes you get with junk mail so the company that sends them is sure to pay the postage. Just be sure not to ID yourself. Big Brother IS watching
--


csiemers

join:2000-09-16
Portland, OR
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by Titus:

And don't forget to return all those postage-paid return envelopes you get with junk mail so the company that sends them is sure to pay the postage. Just be sure not to ID yourself. Big Brother IS watching
--
Actually, I take all the contents (including the original envelope) and put credit card offers in their postage-paid envelope and send them back. I noticed that after I did that for a couple months the amount of credit card offers drastically reduced.
--
»www.wwiivehicles.com

World War II Vehicles and Advanced Squad Leader

amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22
reply to Titus

said by Titus:

And don't forget to return all those postage-paid return envelopes you get with junk mail so the company that sends them is sure to pay the postage.
Someone told me they tape them to a brick and drop them in a mail collection box (before the 1-lb limit which requires you to take things to the post office personally). I don't know if you can really do that. But, it sounded like an interesting possibility (to cost the recipient about $5 in postage).

Mark


supergirl

join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL
reply to amigo_boy

said by amigo_boy:

said by Nightfall:

Its time to outlaw those stupid cards that some grocery stores use that enable you to save more off the price of your groceries.
Just fill in bogus information in the application for the card. I happen to be Captain Nimrod, 45 E Adventure St, Apt -125.

I have a couple cards not tied to anyone because they let me take the application home (and I never returned it).

Mark
Have to admit, I do the same. I have yet to figure out how my cat got a credit card offer. Of course, the same idiot bank does try and "refinance" my house even though the mortgage is with them.

FYI - Albertson's quit the card biz. They did a study and found customers thought it was just anoying. Winn Dixie did too.
--
Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl


supergirl

join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL
reply to hopeflicker

Re: Another reason...

said by hopeflicker:

that captiolism isn't always good.

Captiolism works mostly in favor of big business.

**anticipates the move to china or commie comments to soon follow**
Exactly what is "Captiolism"????
--
Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl

amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22
reply to openbox9

Re: Read Your ISP's "Privacy" Statement

said by openbox9:

Why are many people so eager to jump on the legislation bandwagon?
That ship left the harbor a long time ago. If you want to eliminate food and drug quality laws, building and zoning codes, banking regulations, the Securities and Exchange commission, societal creation of corporate entities, corporation commissions (the list goes forever) then I could understand your position (and it would place you in the realm of the irrelevant fringe).

Otherwise we've already established over the past 200 years that we're a society who believes markets work better with basic, uniform standards, not a raw "caveat emptor" environment.

Mark

SilverSurfer1

join:2007-08-19
reply to openbox9

said by openbox9:

I'm implying that you have options to opt out of a lot of things that ISPs (and many other businesses) do with some of your personal information.
Said the person who has clearly never tried to opt-out of anything. If you did, then you would know that opting out does absolutely nothing to protect your information from disclosure as much as it serves as an implicit acknowledgment that you know it is occurring.


hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1
reply to supergirl

Re: Another reason...

OMG! u are able to detect spelling errors.

1 cookie for j00



factchecker

@cox.net
reply to amigo_boy

Re: Privacy

said by amigo_boy:

I'm surprised 18 U.S.C. 2511 and 2702 don't apply. They're not limited to just disclosure to law enforcement.
For a poster that likes to play lawyer, you forget the myriad of state privacy laws that exist and muddy the waters even more... It isn't as simple as posting those two parts of the U.S.C., which may or may not apply, especially when you take into account that there are other federal laws that deal with privacy issues.

It would be nice if the legal ground was as simple as the links you have posted, but privacy legislation in this country is a disaster.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to SilverSurfer1

Re: Read Your ISP's "Privacy" Statement

I opt out of every "privacy" statement that I receive from my financial institutions and service providers. I receive very little "value added partner marketing" material. So, I'd say that opting out does help in that sense. Also, I'm not naive enough to believe that I have any real privacy, so I guess my implicit acknowledgement is irrelevant.