Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
 ·Cox HSI
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Cox VOIP
·ViaTalk
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·MegaPath
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Time Warner VOIP
| As I mentioned previously
You can't take ANYTHING the NebuAD CEO says at face value. Everything that ever comes out of any corporate spokehole's mouth whether a lower lackey or CEO is about downplaying and damage control. It's never the truth. Honesty to these guys is like sunlight to a vampire. |
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Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY
1 edit | Example
Can we get an example of what shows up in web pages when under this system?
I haven't been too concerned as I have always assumed my info has been sold since day one. My ISP is also my local telco. Years ago I made the mistake of telling them the second line I had them install was for a fax line. Within a week it was blasted daily with junk faxes. I've had little doubt that all internet activity is sold in one way or another as well.
Edit: Looking through the WOW forum it looks like a few additions to the host file would nix the ads. Just the same, there is little doubt multiple parties are still getting user browsing habits and even good cookie management seems of little use when browsing is tracked at the pipe. |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs:
| wow
From only on company website
"We may also use an advertising network provider (or providers) to help present advertisements on our website."
TO
all websites
--
Learning how to invest. Sign up to get 3 free trades for you and me each. Personal Message me. Thanks |
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MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southwest
| This is my question, also.
Are the ads inserted ONLY on pages of the Wide Open West website? Or, are they inserted on OTHER websites not owned by W.O.W.?
If it's the latter, I think that's a bad thing, both technically (it can screw up website views) and legally (they're on shaky ground and may be sued by the website owners).
If it's the former, I can live with it, personally. |
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rmdir
join:2003-03-13
Chicago, IL | alert
The alert will be when they lower the bill because they are sharing the revenue! |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| said by rmdir  :The alert will be when they lower the bill because they are sharing the revenue! You keep waiting for that one, chumly. The oldest corporate trick in the book is to claim X will lower Y and the end result is that Y almost always increases exponentially because of Z. |
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PhoenixDown
-- Wants FIOS
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
clubs:  | Cancel en masse
Pick a day and call in droves to cancel... either these companies listen and stop these bad practices or you go to better provider -- its a win/win situation for yourself. |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
1 edit | reply to MyDogHsFleas
Re: wow
To be clear, NebuAD does not "insert" ads above or on top of existing ad arrangements. They monitor users via network hardware and then present more tailored ads in the traditional fashion via existing advertising networks.
That ad-injection system (Fair Eagle) was a rogue ISP using one of their WISP ad platforms incorrectly on a wired network in Texas. |
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MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southwest
| said by Karl Bode :To be clear, NebuAD does not "insert" ads above or on top of existing ad arrangements. They monitor users via network hardware and then present more tailored ads in the traditional fashion via existing advertising networks. That ad-injection system (Fair Eagle) was a rogue ISP using one of their WISP ad platforms incorrectly on a wired network in Texas. OK, thanks for the info. So the website owners get paid for running the ads, even though the ads that are run are tailored via input from the NebuAD tracking service which harvests tracking information from all your website visits. Do I have it straight? |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Yep. Websites get paid the same way. Only new money is that the ISP gets mailed a check every month for sticking a deep inspection device on the network... |
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MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southwest
| said by Karl Bode :Yep. Websites get paid the same way. Only new money is that the ISP gets mailed a check every month for sticking a deep inspection device on the network... Who pays the ISP? The ad services, e.g. Google AdWords? |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | NebuAD pays the ISP simply to store the device. Other ad arrangements also pay the ISP. |
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NetKrazy
join:2007-11-29
Littleton, CO
1 edit | reply to PhoenixDown
Re: Cancel en masse
I find this interesting, Alot of Service providers are looking to go this route, Consumers ask for ( no demand ) lower prices and increased performance at the same time. The best way for a provider to keep on that front is to leverage the existing resources they have and pick all the fruit from the money tree.
So how bad is it if un-uniquely identifiable information is shared with third parties to help offset the next rate-increase. Yes we all know higher revenue means bigger checks for 'the man' but we also know that to a degree it does trickle down in most cases, probably not as much as it should but it does.
Consumer internet connections is a wholesale industry, you can come out with the best internet connection known to man, but if you charge $300 for it nobody is going to get it. So you charge $40 and you recycle the traffic to collect ad revenue. It's the way the world is going so as sad as it is it's almost a 'get used to it' approach. In the last 3-6 months there have been DNS redirection via NX domain advertising. Just Monday the article about Phorm makes the links. The notion of going to another ISP becomes "Meet your new provider same as the old provider". Bottom line ISP's won't survive as the 'dumb pipe' they need to milk every monetizable (is this a word?) resource they can. |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | reply to PhoenixDown
Better yet - complain to the FCC.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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PhoenixDown
-- Wants FIOS
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
clubs: | reply to NetKrazy
Why can't ISP's survive as a "dumb pipe"?
Cisco and other CPE retailers are nothing more than a "dumb" equipment provider. Their products have been commoditized yet they still make a healthy profit even without their service contracts. |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Karl Bode
Re: wow
said by Karl Bode :To be clear, NebuAD does not "insert" ads above or on top of existing ad arrangements. They monitor users via network hardware and then present more tailored ads in the traditional fashion via existing advertising networks.
That's what the Nebuad and Phorm guys have been saying in interviews recently (for example in this Register article). But what posters describe in the forum yesterday, linked in the blurb at the top, is clearly injection of foreign content (into Google homepage, for example). |
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MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southwest
| said by swhx7 :But what posters describe in the forum yesterday, linked in the blurb at the top, is clearly injection of foreign content (into Google homepage, for example). I see no mention of injecting foreign CONTENT, just tracking cookies. This is quite different from injecting actual ADS onto Google, for example. You may object to the cookies but it's important to be clear on what is actually being done. |
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NetKrazy
join:2007-11-29
Littleton, CO
| reply to PhoenixDown
Re: Cancel en masse
Well I wouldn't ever think to compare a hardware based company to the service provider realm. CPE retailers get caught up in 'throw away' devices newer bigger better constantly require upgrades and after initial development costs that single investment can drive millions in revenue. And ofcourse for a service provider to meet the demands of it's customers they have to go back to cisco for newer better and bigger.
Now, can a provider survive as a 'dumb pipe' yes, I should have been clearer in my statement. They can but that life would probably not be long lived as someone who is utilizing their resources more. When you begin to compare what it costs to upgrade and maintain the network it becomes a cascade of problems. When a good portion of those problems do come from the customer. I made this comparison in another article about the cost between a T1 and a cablemodem A DS3 and a cablemodem have a huge price difference, while people are quick to point out the differences in service levels customers are quick to shop around and complain when the service isn't on-par.
I think the biggest thing that stands to say why as a 'dumb pipe' a provider won't survive is the direction the industry is heading. The debates over p2p and VOIP for example. Today more and more companies are using the 'backbone' of the service provider to drive their business, This means increased usage that the service provider has to react against while never seeing any increase in revenue. So they have but a few options as consumers passively or knowingly consume more. Increase rates to meet the demand on the consumer (which is never good), start billing the third party for access (OMG Net Neutrality), or monetize the traffic that's already flowing. The big driver, ofcourse offer more for less to the end user in an attempt to keep them as a customer. Ultimately I think this is the biggest driving factor that upgrades and improvements have to happen without per-say an increase in revenue from the customer. But the upgrades that have to happen and in-turn help the CPE guys as you said, the customer and the 'third parties' all carried on the back of the provider.
Not saying I'm right or that I know better purely my opinion. |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| reply to swhx7
Re: wow
quote:
That's what the Nebuad and Phorm guys have been saying in interviews recently (for example in this Register article). But what posters describe in the forum yesterday, linked in the blurb at the top, is clearly injection of foreign content (into Google homepage, for example).
I believe they're confusing the issue based on those early reports about Fair Eagle doing so. I've confirmed the NebuAD model does not inject over-riding content that derails existing ad systems or over-rides a webmaster's wishes.
I can't speak to Phorm, as I've spent less time studying them, but I don't think they do that either. They're doing a number of things differently, including trying to pitch their service as an anti-phishing solution, which is pretty lame. |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to PhoenixDown
Re: Cancel en masse
said by PhoenixDown :Why can't ISP's survive as a "dumb pipe"?
Because of the nature of capitalism: investors demand ever-rising profits. If profits remain the same or fall, management will be replaced. Investment will move to other companies that exploit customers and employees more intensively.
said by PhoenixDown :Cisco and other CPE retailers are nothing more than a "dumb" equipment provider. Their products have been commoditized yet they still make a healthy profit even without their service contracts.
These companies make products, not services. They can continually make new versions, add features, change pricing, fix bugs, and other things to keep revenue rising. Also the products are not really commoditized yet; Cisco for example benefits from a perception of high quality, some proprietary interfaces, features that competitors don't have, etc., though the others (Juniper, open source) are making some progress. It's not generic like "dumb pipe" internet. |
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