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Comments on news posted 2008-03-27 10:06:26: Comcast and BitTorrent this morning jointly announced that by the end of this year, Comcast will migrate "to a capacity management technique that is protocol agnostic. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next

newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
kudos:1
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·Comcast

Truth as a Comcast concept

quote:
By "more appropriate," he means doesn't involve packet forgery and a wholesale assault on one particular protocol.
I hope they also embrace the "more appropriate" concept of telling their subscribers the truth in the future.
--

Ö¿Ö
The Rules of Spam | Maryland's Newest Anti-Spam Law
Where are we going? And what's with the hand basket?
TIGERON

join:2008-03-11
Pacifica, CA

Re: Truth as a Comcast concept

Facing a class-action lawsuit is the only way this company will be truthful. This is nothing more than a public-relations control.

gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

Don't assume anything

It's probably a bad idea to assign meaning to what they say such as "he means doesn't involve forging user TCP packets."

It's more likely that they will whitelist legal BT so as to avoid lawsuits.

Pirates are still fair game.
--
There is no greater sign of a general decay of virtue in a nation, than a want of zeal in its inhabitants for the good of their country. ~ Joseph Addison

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

Re: Don't assume anything

quote:
It's more likely that they will whitelist legal BT so as to avoid lawsuits.
That's what I was wondering...though the claim here is "protocol agnostic," so they'd be caught in a lie if they went back and started mucking about with even a portion of BT traffic...

Kickroot
Java Heathen
Premium
join:2002-11-24
Honesdale, PA

Re: Don't assume anything

said by Karl Bode:

...so they'd be caught in a lie if...
You make it sound like they try to avoid that type of situation.
--
Only through the criticizing of others can we learn to love ourselves.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

Re: Don't assume anything

Point made, but if they were still planning to take action against illegal Torrents their PR people would have avoided use of the phrase "protocol agnostic" in the press release.

Sabre
Di relung hatiku bernyanyi bidadari

join:2005-05-17

1 recommendation

Re: Don't assume anything

Unless they were planning to take action against illegal material of any sort, whether distributed via torrent or otherwise? Wouldn't that still technically be "protocol agnostic"?

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

Re: Don't assume anything

True. This announcement could be followed in a year by a push where they attempt to purge all illegal content from the network via deep packet inspection like AT&T says they want to do...

There could also be a future scenario where official, sanctioned "BitTorrent Corp." BitTorrent traffic is considered the only legitimate BitTorrent traffic they recognize because they've struck content deals with Cohen and company.

But both of these scenarios would be PR napalm bombs. Can't really tell until someone can poke at the newly managed network later this year.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by Sabre:

Unless they were planning to take action against illegal material of any sort, whether distributed via torrent or otherwise? Wouldn't that still technically be "protocol agnostic"?
Yes. And they should take actions to stop illegal content. And also to reign in the bandwidth hogs(top 5% of users).
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
Premium
join:2002-12-17
Seward, AK

Re: Don't assume anything

What about the nodes that dont have "hogs" on them? The top 5% would just be the Granny that had a new grandbaby and got over 2 gigs of email video and pics in one day.

If you absolutely must get rid of "hogs" (instead of upgrading infrastructure), going by the top percent isnt a perfect idea. You'd have to do it as the top x users who consume more than y more than everyone else on the node on a consistant basis. That way at least the people who arent hogs but still use a lot wont get hassled as much.

DHRacer
Tech Monkey

join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA
How does one define hog? I mean, are there terms in the TOS that say you can only use your connection that you paid for between the hours of 8am to 5pm? If you paid for it, you should be able to use it 24/7. And if you happen to be an avid downloader or uploader who paid more moeny for a faster connection, what's it to you?

You'll notice that I didn't mention whether the content of the downloading or uploading is legal or illegal material, but frankly my stance is the ISP shouldn't care. That's law enforcement's problem. ISPs should just be the straw you use to suck and backwash into the great big internet pool.

--
"No one will believe you solved this problem in one day! We've been working on it for months. Now, go act busy for a few weeks and I'll let you know when it's time to tell them." (R&D Supervisor, Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing /3M Corp.)
TIGERON

join:2008-03-11
Pacifica, CA

Re: Don't assume anything

THANK YOU
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

1 recommendation

You are incorrect in your assumptions regardless of legality.

You do NOT purchase bandwidth to use 100% 24/7. You purchase it with them having the expectation that you will be an average user using the average amount of bandwidth. They do understand that there will be those that use more and those that use less than the average. However, those that are using an extreme amount need to be dealt with as it effects everyone (them and the other customers).

I personally would say they need to have tiers with caps above what a 'typical' user would use. As you move into those tiers your connection is throttled more and more. If you need more bandwidth or higher caps you buy it and pay a "surcharge" to be an "avid downloader or uploader".

DHRacer
Tech Monkey

join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA

1 edit

Re: Don't assume anything

"You do NOT purchase bandwidth to use 100% 24/7. You purchase it with them having the expectation that you will be an average user using the average amount of bandwidth."

So even though the connection is on, I can't use it? Why not? You don't sign up for speed tiers by "usage" (though maybe they should change the tiers from "speed" to "usage") since everyone seems to think that more speed = more usage.

I'm still wondering where in the TOS is says what an "average user" is, or an how much is an "average amount of bandwidth". I'd hate to be an over achiever.

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: Don't assume anything

More speed is irrelevant to more usage. You can just get what you want quicker. That doesn't mean you have to consume more just because you can. You can continue to try to skew the facts if you choose, but you are 100% wrong and not a single ISP or network manager will tell you otherwise.

The connection is always on and available and you can use it any time you want. However, if you think it is there for you to absorb 100's of GB or even TB of data at your leisure just because you can then you are sadly mistaken and it is clear in every TOS that if you are doing such they have the right to limit you or terminate you.

I would like to advocate limiting you through tiers and throttling as I think that is the most reasonable and consumer friendly approach. It also gives them another revenue stream for true user’s of that bandwidth to get it for a price if they want it. But the casual moron’s that try to download the entire internet every month just so they can say they did, won’t be willing to part with their cash (or mommy and daddy’s cash) so quick to continue doing so.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

Re: Don't assume anything

quote:
However, if you think it is there for you to absorb 100's of GB or even TB of data at your leisure just because you can then you are sadly mistaken and it is clear in every TOS that if you are doing such they have the right to limit you or terminate you.
Well then it's time to tell the marketing department to stop pretending the connection has no limits, impose overage fees, and deal with the public relations consequences instead of constantly whining about and demonizing users who actually use their connection.
wierdo

join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK

Re: Don't assume anything

said by Karl Bode:

quote:
However, if you think it is there for you to absorb 100's of GB or even TB of data at your leisure just because you can then you are sadly mistaken and it is clear in every TOS that if you are doing such they have the right to limit you or terminate you.
Well then it's time to tell the marketing department to stop pretending the connection has no limits, impose overage fees, and deal with the public relations consequences instead of constantly whining about and demonizing users who actually use their connection.
Agreed. But maybe that's because I only use significantly more than Cox's almost never enforced cap one month out of ten lately.

When I had DSL, I was constantly downloading, though. Of course, that might have been because it was only 20% of the speed, so it took 5 times as long to download anything.

If I were the cable companies, I would impose a soft cap and throttle you after you exceeded it. The more you use, the slower it gets until you're down to 1.5Mbps. And I would publicize that as being my policy. None of the normal folks who use the satellite providers find their FAPs to be unreasonable in principle, only in the excessively low number at which they kick in. Unlike the cable companies, however, they are 100% up front about it.
--
It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
I agree 100% Karl. However, you and I both know that the corporations are going to walk the line of deceit as much as the govermental agencies there to protect us will let them.

a333
A hot cup of integrals please

join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon Online DSL
·Cingular Wireless
Let's hope that doesn't turn the US into another Canada.... I'm OK with the idea, but often times, companies abuse that, and rip customers off. It'd be OK if it was $50/month for 20 Mbps with 350 Gigs included, with $0.50/10 gigs. That's reasonable, in my book. But if it's a Time Warner-style $1/Gb overage, that's just ridiculous. Might as well maintain a DSL connection alongside the cable connection, to take care of big downloads.
Corydon
Cultivant son jardin
Premium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO
said by FFH:

Yes. And they should take actions to stop illegal content. And also to reign in the bandwidth hogs(top 5% of users).
Bandwidth hogs I'm cool with. Let Comcast go after them all they want to—as long as it really is just the top 1% or whatever and the limits are publicly defined. The main problem I have with Comcast is how opaque their practices are. They really need to be a lot more open about what they're doing.

On the other hand, I don't think stopping piracy or any other illegal content is any of Comcast's concern. Yes, they should cooperate with warrants and subpoenas, but I don't want my ISP monitoring my traffic at the behest of the **AAs unless someone's got a damn good reason, like solid evidence that I'm a pirate or kiddie porn trader or whatever.

TZi

join:2001-07-05
Miami Beach, FL
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: Don't assume anything

said by Corydon:

The main problem I have with Comcast is how opaque their practices are. They really need to be a lot more open about what they're doing.
I too believe that Comcast ought to be more upfront about just what constitutes over-use. However when you take into account how diverse the plants that they own are (750Mhz, 850Mhz, 1Ghz?) + (DOCSIS 1.1, DOCSIS 2.0 DOCSIS 3.0) , and even the different nodes within systems (100 subs on node A, 17 subs on NODE B), you can understand why it is somewhat difficult to put in the TOS a black and white definition of overuse. Not to mention the fact that services and subscriber load on a system could change on a weekly or daily basis.

If they defined "overuse" according to the most heavily subscribed node, it would mean a lot of users who could be taking advantage of free bandwidth are being denied unused resources whereas a policy based on the least subscribed node would ultimately result in poor service for all. By addressing the issue of "overuse" on node by node, system by system basis they can ensure that their network resources are most efficiently use.

I don't think they intentionally try to make the definition of overuse a secret, it's just that it's based on so many dynamic factors it's almost impossible to put in black-and-white, but I'm sure it is easy for them to identify in the network management software which can dynamically evaluate all those factors.
--
128kbps too much, 100GBps never enough!
Corydon
Cultivant son jardin
Premium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO

Re: Don't assume anything

said by TZi:

I too believe that Comcast ought to be more upfront about just what constitutes over-use. However when you take into account how diverse the plants that they own are (750Mhz, 850Mhz, 1Ghz?) + (DOCSIS 1.1, DOCSIS 2.0 DOCSIS 3.0) , and even the different nodes within systems (100 subs on node A, 17 subs on NODE B), you can understand why it is somewhat difficult to put in the TOS a black and white definition of overuse. Not to mention the fact that services and subscriber load on a system could change on a weekly or daily basis.
That's a good point, but Cox somehow manages to do it, and I'm sure they suffer from exactly the same issues that Comcast does.

A diverse plant actually is one of the areas where infrastructure upgrades does make sense. I have no doubt whatsoever that MSOs have network surveillance that monitor nodes for oversubscription, identify good candidates for upgrades, etc. I'm sure they do node splits and similar upgrades all the time as their business grows.

What I would like to see is a high cap on how much you can use the service in a month, one that would pretty much never catch 95% of their users (The MSOs routinely claim that only about 1% of users violate the invisible caps). Give people a way of tracking their usage on their website. Then selectively enforce the cap on those nodes where the heavy users are actually impacting others, while letting heavy users on other nodes that don't have the same impact skate by until they do.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

1 edit

Re: Don't assume anything

quote:
That's a good point, but Cox somehow manages to do it, and I'm sure they suffer from exactly the same issues that Comcast does.
As an aside, Cox also uses the exact same packet forgery approach to throttle eDonkey traffic, but people generally ignored that when we pointed it out last year.
wierdo

join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK

1 edit

Re: Don't assume anything

said by Karl Bode:

quote:
That's a good point, but Cox somehow manages to do it, and I'm sure they suffer from exactly the same issues that Comcast does.
As an aside, Cox also uses the exact same packet forgery approach to throttle eDonkey traffic, but people generally ignored that when we pointed it out last year.
Oh, they do it to BitTorrent in some markets (or at least were a couple of months ago)

Edited to add: As of a few minutes ago, they're not blocking outright anymore, they're just throttling the crap out of it. I have a server connected over GigE to Cox San Diego (among other ISPs) with an all Cox path to my cable modem in Tulsa. Using BitTorrent, the server can seed a given file to me in Tulsa at a mere 25.6KBps. Over HTTP, I can download the same file at my full cap.

It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6
said by Karl Bode:

quote:
That's a good point, but Cox somehow manages to do it, and I'm sure they suffer from exactly the same issues that Comcast does.
As an aside, Cox also uses the exact same packet forgery approach to throttle eDonkey traffic, but people generally ignored that when we pointed it out last year.
I'm 100% sure the same was happening with BitTorrent. My Cox partner in testing was having too many wireshark problems for me to be able to prove it, however. So the only evidence I had was anecdotal.

My confidence is based simply on the fact that Cox is using Sandvine and ED2K is an "also ran" as far as P2P protocols go. A USA cable MSO is not going to use Sandvine P2P policy enforcement without going after BitTorrent.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
"We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report.

TZi

join:2001-07-05
Miami Beach, FL
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by Corydon:

What I would like to see is a high cap on how much you can use the service in a month, one that would pretty much never catch 95% of their users (The MSOs routinely claim that only about 1% of users violate the invisible caps).
The reason these caps are "invisible" is because it would ultimately mean issuing a cap on a node-by-node basis which would be ridiculous considering most users don't even know what a bandwidth cap is. I don't even really think that Comcast even has a number that constitutes abuse, they simply identify users on a node which are consuming resources to the point that it is causing performance degradation and dealing with them accordingly.

If they told you don't transfer over XYZ amount a month then 100 subscribers signed on next month, that number would no longer be relevant or effective. So too, if 100 users cancelled next month and you were forced to adhere to XYZ that would mean loads of network capacity go unused which could be used to satisfy you as a subscriber.

I don't think comcast intends to hide the "invisible" cap from us, it's just that the number is ultimately dynamic.

As for a webpage that details your total transfer, there are several programs for windows (in fact windows itself) and some routers that can keep track of your total usage. While it is easy for satellite providers who have one central NOC to provide such usage statistics, it would be a nightmare for comcast who is constantly acquiring older systems, migrating recently acquired systems and building out new systems to aggregate all this data onto a webpage.
--
128kbps too much, 100GBps never enough!

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

Re: Don't assume anything

Our uplinks are too small to blame any one or any few users on a performance degradation. It's like trying to blame a particular rainstorm or a particular sunny day on El Nino or Global Warming.

That said, in the past, I think they have acted reactively -- in just the way that you described. They either looked at nodes with high utilization or looked at nodes with a high number of complaints. Then they made "the warning call."

But within the past year or so, there has been a stronger campaign and it seems to me that they may have made "the warning call" to certain users proactively -- perhaps where they were about to add a 16Mbps tier or where they were about to launch Comcast Digital Voice.

said by TZi:

As for a webpage that details your total transfer, there are several programs for windows (in fact windows itself) and some routers that can keep track of your total usage. While it is easy for satellite providers who have one central NOC to provide such usage statistics, it would be a nightmare for comcast who is constantly acquiring older systems, migrating recently acquired systems and building out new systems to aggregate all this data onto a webpage.
Assuming that you are right, then fair enough. However after "the warning call," the user should be able to get some periodic self-monitoring feedback from the provider. Perhaps someone can manually grab the data each week and send it via e-mail to those under "the warning." This way, a user at risk can understand whether the high usage is something nefarious (like a virus or a leeching neighborhood) or accidental (a lousy remote-backup configuration, or someone watching an HD-quality video stream 24/7 and merely turning off the monitor before going to school).

Currently, the only feedback they get is whether or not you have Internet service 30 days after that warning call.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
"We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report.

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12

1 edit

1 recommendation

Re: Don't assume anything


FiOS (BPON and GPON ) is shared.
djtr4in

join:2008-03-27
Frederick, MD

Re: Don't assume anything

direct opti line to my house...same speed through out the day compared to comcast which slows at peak hours..6pm-9pm due to everyone in the area home from work and relaxing and browsing the net.

LeftOfSanity
People Suck.

join:2005-11-06
Dover, DE

Re: Don't assume anything

said by djtr4in:

direct opti line to my house...same speed through out the day compared to comcast which slows at peak hours..6pm-9pm due to everyone in the area home from work and relaxing and browsing the net.
Is that standard throughout the country or an experience that you or someone you know had?

Fios is a shared medium also.
Samwoo

join:2002-02-15
Rancho Palos Verdes, CA

Re: Don't assume anything

Don't forget to mention... The INTERNET as a whole is a shared medium.
Who shares what nodes on the other hand is a difficult question.

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12
said by djtr4in:

direct opti line to my house...same speed through out the day compared to comcast which slows at peak hours..6pm-9pm due to everyone in the area home from work and relaxing and browsing the net.
I also have a direct optical line to my house that is based upon BPON technology.

That doesn't negate the fact it's still shared at the neighborhood node.
Expand your moderator at work
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
said by FFH:

Yes. And they should take actions to stop illegal content. And also to reign in the bandwidth hogs(top 5% of users).
How about some of that illegal spam bot action that seems to come from Comcast subscribers whose machines are infected?

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Don't assume anything

said by moonpuppy:

said by FFH:

Yes. And they should take actions to stop illegal content. And also to reign in the bandwidth hogs(top 5% of users).
How about some of that illegal spam bot action that seems to come from Comcast subscribers whose machines are infected?
Good point. They should take them offline until they get their machines cleaned.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12

Re: Don't assume anything

said by FFH:

said by moonpuppy:

said by FFH:

Yes. And they should take actions to stop illegal content. And also to reign in the bandwidth hogs(top 5% of users).
How about some of that illegal spam bot action that seems to come from Comcast subscribers whose machines are infected?
Good point. They should take them offline until they get their machines cleaned.
On this we're in 100% agreement. Get them offline ASAP.

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

1 recommendation

said by FFH:

Yes. And they should take actions to stop illegal content. And also to reign in the bandwidth hogs(top 5% of users).
I have a better idea.

Create a skunkworks to figure out a better "last-mile" solution, and let the bandwidth hogs volunteer to test it FOR FREE.

... erm, well maybe I'd be the only volunteer for that -- I'm probably one of the only guys that downloads porn just to look at the articles datagrams ...
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
"We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

A Q&A from Comcast VP on BitTorrent deal

»www.news.com/8301-10784_3-990468···1_3-0-20
To try to figure out what exactly Comcast is planning to do later this year as its part of this detente, I sat down with Comcast's Joe Waz, who is the senior vice president for external affairs and the company's public policy counsel. (Both of us happened to be here at a technology policy conference; I'm scheduled to do an onstage interview of Ashwin Navin, BitTorrent's president and co-founder, as part of the conference on Thursday afternoon.)
See the above link for the actual Q&A.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
Premium
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit

We'll see..

While it 'sounds' good on paper, we will have to wait and see what really happens here..

At least Comcast is bowing to pressure and doing something. Let also hope that these upload boosts get around to their whole footprint long before DOCSIS 3 does..

waiting.
--
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- - - - - - - - - - - -
»www.1-gb.net
»www.ppnstudio.com

BabyBear
Keep wise ...with Nite-Owl

join:2007-01-11

Hazah!

Score one for the consumer!

quote:
Originally, Comcast compounded their problems with months of denials, half truths, and semantics when dealing with the press and public concerning their traffic shaping practices.
So with all that, we should be cautiously optimistic on Comcast's ability to follow through with what they are saying today.

Course this would make for in their eyes a great time for a rate increase, perhaps from $42 to $49. We shall see.

Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
Premium
join:2002-12-17
Seward, AK

Re: Hazah!

While I dislike Comcast as much as the next guy here, I havent seen these rate hikes. In fact, we just noticed yesterday our bill was down $15 for some reason I still havent really figured out. As far as I can guess, its because the speed tier we signed up for a few years back (6/768) is no longer a $60mo tier ($60mo when we signed up, we did see a few rate hikes on that price throughout the past couple years, but I cant remember how much, that bill is the wifeys responsibility) now 8/768 is the highest they offer here and its now $52mo.
Anomaly95

join:2005-12-11
Phoenix, AZ

Wow

That was quick. I figured they would have dragged it out more.

Or are they afraid of a FCC decision?

justbits
More fiber than ATT can handle
Premium
join:2003-01-08
Chicago, IL
Reviews:
·Comcast Business..

CTO vs CEO

So, the CTO announced that they're changing their traffic congestion policy. Excellent. I look forward to reading about exactly what they're going to do.

But, what's this mean financially for the company and the customers? What's the CEO have to say? Is this just a means for justifying excessive increases in broadband prices for the next several years?

LeftOfSanity
People Suck.

join:2005-11-06
Dover, DE

1 recommendation

Hmmm...

Yea, now they will just start billing by usage.

I was never a fan of BT myself, anything I have ever tried to D/L with it took forever.
--
Fighting on the Internet is like winning the Special Olympics. Win or lose, your still Retarted!
wierdo

join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK

Re: Hmmm...

said by LeftOfSanity:

I was never a fan of BT myself, anything I have ever tried to D/L with it took forever.
Download some Linux ISOs and you'll find exactly the opposite.
--
It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.

koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

"Round-trip" time

... by the end of this year, Comcast will migrate "to a capacity management technique ...

"This means that we will have to rapidly reconfigure our network management systems," says Comcast CTO ...
Nine months is apparently "rapid?" And how long did it take them to install a Sandvine? Nine months? I highly doubt it.

Give us a break, Comcast -- turn the Sandvine stuff off NOW, and then work with us (customers and public users) during the next 9 months to ensure that things are working smoothly.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.

LeftOfSanity
People Suck.

join:2005-11-06
Dover, DE

1 recommendation

Re: "Round-trip" time

said by koitsu:

... by the end of this year, Comcast will migrate "to a capacity management technique ...

"This means that we will have to rapidly reconfigure our network management systems," says Comcast CTO ...
Nine months is apparently "rapid?" And how long did it take them to install a Sandvine? Nine months? I highly doubt it.

Give us a break, Comcast -- turn the Sandvine stuff off NOW, and then work with us (customers and public users) during the next 9 months to ensure that things are working smoothly.
12 months later:

I can see the multiple posts now

"HELP!! COMCAST STILL BLOCKING MY BT"
"Its been 1 year, but Comcast still blocks my BT!!"
--
Fighting on the Internet is like winning the Special Olympics. Win or lose, your still Retarted!

espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Vitelity VOIP
said by koitsu:

Nine months is apparently "rapid?" And how long did it take them to install a Sandvine? Nine months? I highly doubt it.
In May of 2007 funchords See Profile stated a thread about the Sandvine deployment, stating that the behavior started about 6 months prior. That means deployment was sometime in 2006.

9 months is actually pretty aggressive to roll something out nationally. They can't even roll out services that increase revenue (ie CDV) nationally in 9 months.

POB
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA

1 recommendation

When Pigs Fly Out of My Butt

Well this story is just about the biggest lot of unadulterated, happy corporate PR horseshit that I've ever seen. I don't believe for one minute that Comcrap will completely get rid of the blocking/throttling. They'll just do it a lot more quietly now that all eyes are upon them. And in another 3-6 months from now, after the EFF has gone away and subscribers stop watching, they'll return to the practice.
--
The Toll

Let's Go Flyers!

•••

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

What if pirates don't use the new friendlier BitTorrent S/W?

"In the spirit of openness and fostering innovative
solutions, BitTorrent will take the first step in enhancing our client
applications to optimize them for a new broadband network architecture.
Furthermore, we will publish these optimizations in open forums and
standard bodies for all application developers to benefit from," said
Ashwin Navin, co-founder and president of BitTorrent, Inc.
And what if the pirates don''t use the new friendlier versions of BitTorrent and continue to use versions that don't play nice with the ISPs? What then?
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

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Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12

TCP Resets a Red Herring?

This makes me wonder ... there was a huge outcry about disconnecting and throttling the heavy users, so I wonder if the Sandvine fiasco was a red herring ... the lesser of two evils so to speak.

Now, instead of everyone yelling about the bandwidth hogs, they've accepted that the bandwidth hogs will be throttled, but everyone else won't be. The problem is, who determines what a bandwidth hog is or what is deemed excessive usage?

Very clever ... or as Monte Burns would say, "Excellent!"

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

Re: TCP Resets a Red Herring?

said by Matt3:

Now, instead of everyone yelling about the bandwidth hogs, they've accepted that the bandwidth hogs will be throttled, but everyone else won't be. The problem is, who determines what a bandwidth hog is or what is deemed excessive usage?

Very clever ... or as Monte Burns would say, "Excellent!"


Yeah, let's analyze this.

1. BitTorrent, Inc., who is not a party to the FCC complaint or rule-making petition, has "made a deal" with Comcast, who has never told a straight fact twice.

2. Comcast and BitTorrent both stipulate that
a. BitTorrent is the most popular P2P protocol, and
b. that it is the heaviest user of bandwidth.

3. Comcast will change its discrimination target from
a. the BitTorrent protocol, to
b. BitTorrent's users

4. Representing BitTorrent in these negotiations was Jessica "Is Chicken of the Sea chicken or tuna?" Simpson.

Actually, I'm more optimistic than that -- but I have learned that Ronald Reagan's "Trust but Verify" policy was a good one.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
"We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report.
Jerkface

join:2005-06-05
Hackettstown, NJ

comcrap

i have to agree that comcast will in fact NOT have this done in the upcoming year. Why dont i believe it? Because i have lost all faith in my isp. Just something that comcrap can put in the papers to show how "consumer-friendly" it is. blah

Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23

1 edit

Good news for Bell.

Congratulations, Bell, you've now managed to become more evil than Comcast! I didn't think it was possible, but you pulled through and proved us all wrong!

Don't forget, Bell, your next step should involve forcing every other ISP to cap their services by making wholesalers pay by the megabit AND by the gigabyte! Why double dip when you can triple dip?

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

If they actually make good on their promise

Then what they will likely do is throttle BitTorrent
traffic during peak periods, mainly if the node where
the traffic is being generated is at or close to capacity.

This is similar to what Time Warner is doing.

Or maybe they'll allow a certain amount, then charge
something like $2.00/GB over that.

Even though I may disagree with those who consider file
sharers thieves or those who use BitTorrent bandwidth
hogs, they do have a point: BT is one of the more traffic
intensive protocols - it can easily overwhelm most
consumer routers if connection limits aren't set in the
client. If it is doing that to routers, imagine what it
is doing to ISP network equipment.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)

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deadzoned
Premium
join:2005-04-13
Cypress, TX

Too good to be true?

Sounds too good to be true to me. There has to be some sort of angle they are playing here. I just don't see why they would suddenly do an about-face on this issue - even with all of the blow back they have received on their draconian Traffic Shaping methods.

Maybe more to this story or something? I guess we shall see, I have to admit I have a pretty negative attitude overall about these companies in general. Maybe I will be surprised!
priller

join:2000-10-20
Gainesville, VA

"Protocol Agnostic" means EVERYTHING


I must be reading this differently from everybody else. By saying "protocol agnostic", that means they will target ALL types of traffic, not just BT!

I wouldn't be congratulating them just yet.

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birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
kudos:9

"Protocol Agnostic"

"Protocol Agnostic" is PR-speak for all protocols. Nothing is off the table.

Until their network can sustain the traffic they purport to sell, I predict their "network management" will be to throttle all traffic. Whether they discriminate against the bandwidth hogs or against all subscribers at random remains to be seen.

The nature of their distribution method has them between a rock and a hard place no matter what they do.

They've already got "up to" language in their service description. They should throttle the heavy users back to let the lightweight's traffic get through.

But the key is to let subscribers know what they're doing. Transparency is good.

Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT

Talk about cutting the Comcast naysayers off

at the knees.

Today..they wake up to a joint press release from Comcast..

and bittorrent themselves.

OMFG!!

I'll tell you..anyone who says that this isn't one very progressive and responsive ISP has been barking up the WRONG tree.

Since being converted over from Adelphia last year..I've been continually amazed and impressed at what this company has done and offered us...taking us from 4400k speeds with adelphia to 30,000k powerboost speeds now.

At zero additional cost nonetheless.

And, as of late..it's been docsis 3.0 and their aggressive plans there..and now...this.

This is a company that if forward looking if I've ever seen one. And one that delivers a lot of value.

And today..with this announcement..they've proved it once again..even to the loudest and most vocal among BBR users.

Comcast..and Bittorrent..aligned.

Joint press prelease.

Amazing.

Simply..amazing.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic!

•••

gatorkram
Need for Speed
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink

Everyone else..

I sure hope this means smaller providers will wake up as well, and smell the coffee.

It would really suck to have to do this all over again to all the other providers who have been doing the same exact things Comcast has been.

My eyes are wide open...
--
Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240

FreedomBuild
Well done is better than well said
Premium
join:2004-10-08
Rockford, IL

Preventive Measure to deter possible Class Action Lawsuit

I'll Take the 'wait-n-see' approach also. I am personally am not into the P2P thing. However, I am a stickler for Honesty. I was recently contacted by a law firm last week, already involved in a Lawsuit with Comcast in DC. The letter stated that they (Certain Law Firm) along with a few other Law Firms are investigating the Feasibility of a class action lawsuit. I think Comcast has been fully aware of this for some time hence the TOS change with the arbitration clause and they (Comcast) putting forth some proactive agreements with BT & community.
--
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