dslreports logo
site
spacer

spacer
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


view:
topics flat nest 
Comments on news posted 2008-04-06 10:03:44: CERN, the European Center for Nuclear Research, has gotten a lot of media attention lately for a project they’re currently working on in which they plan to recreate The Big Bang. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 edit

1 recommendation

"The Grid" a long way away from general internet use

»CERN Launches Superfast Internet to Track Big Bang
The idea is that it will ultimately be what replaces the current Internet for the mainstream public across the world.
The Grid »www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u···9881.ece
That network, in effect a parallel internet, is now built, using fibre optic cables that run from Cern to 11 centres in the United States, Canada, the Far East, Europe and around the world.

From each centre, further connections radiate out to a host of other research institutions using existing high-speed academic networks.
Think of it like the road system in Germany. Super high speed autobahns tie together cities. But when you get to those cities, speeds drop off precipitously. The cities will NEVER have speeds like the autobahns. And home users will NEVER have the speeds that tie these research centers together - at least not in my or even current teens lifetimes.

Will home users speeds rise? Of course. But it won't approach the speeds tying together these research centers.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page


S_engineeer

@comcast.net
"Although the grid itself is unlikely to be directly available to domestic internet users, many telecoms providers and businesses are already introducing its pioneering technologies."

Radical new directions...didnt I see this in a Terminator movie?

The consumer ultimately rationed a miniscule amount of access but could benefit from the technologies. We will however, be paying through the nose, and it will be sold as a telecom breakthrough!


Gridfear

@verizon.net
"The consumer ultimately rationed a miniscule amount of access but could benefit from the technologies. We will however, be paying through the nose, and it will be sold as a telecom breakthrough!"

And why does that bother you? The cost of developing this network was rationalized by it's first intended use: research and the researchers at the universities and research offices where they do their work, not web surfers and P2P users sitting at home. Even the most noble consumer end-user uses don't justify free access.

Access to a very high-speed network is not a right, it's a value-added service you must pay for. Someone will have to build the infrastructure to bring GRID (or whatever it will be called when it gets to the rest of us) to commercial and eventually residential users, but those users will have to pay a fee to justify the investments made. And if the government did it, those fees would be called taxes.


mod_wastrel
iamwhatiam

join:2008-03-28
kudos:1
reply to S_engineeer
"Skynet was born..."



thebaron
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Stittsville, ON

Skynet

It'll become "Self-Aware" shortly after deployment


NOCMan
MacChatter
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO

Hopefully they do not discover a black hole

As big and as old as the universe is you would think we'd find communications for someone by now.

Maybe they looked for this particle as well.

Assuming the entrophy theory is correct you could create a mini black hole and it would fizzle out. However, if it's incorrect, we'll lets just hope it's fast.
--
Mac Chatter
»www.macchatter.net


MrMoody
Free range slave
Premium
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC

The End

"The experiment has provoked opposition. Two scientists from Hawaii have lodged a challenge at a Honolulu court, claiming the accelerator could create a black hole that could destroy the Earth"

But they're pretty sure that won't happen.
--
The public is a poor business manager.


MrMoody
Free range slave
Premium
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
reply to NOCMan

Re: Hopefully they do not discover a black hole

said by NOCMan:

As big and as old as the universe is you would think we'd find communications for someone by now.

Maybe they looked for this particle as well.
Funny, I was thinking EXACTLY the same thing not too long ago. Maybe civilizations are self-limiting.
--
The public is a poor business manager.

Sunburn

join:2000-10-05
Denver, CO
reply to MrMoody

Re: The End

Massive particle accelerators have been running for YEARS on Long Island. Funny, what the heck are they talking/worried about.


Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT

Umm..hello?

Anybody home?
Who the heck is allowing these maniacs to proceed with this?

Jeesh..well..ya know. I think i'll just recreate the big bang this afternoon.
Has anyone kind of considered the ramifications that might have on something..Oh..like our universe perhaps?

I mean..wow. Let's sit in Cern and try to recreate inflation and see if space itself can push out from here.

This would make a nuclear weapons test seem like someone playing with a pea shooter!

W T F are these people thinking?

Mad Scientists are at work in Cern..for sure.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic!


Glaice
Brutal Video Vault
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY
reply to FFH

Re: "The Grid" a long way away from general internet use

Porbably because we don't have the hardware to support these insane speeds yet (NICs, hard drives, HDD controllers, etc)


chakey
Premium
join:2004-06-14
Gladstone, NJ
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit
reply to Rick

Re: Umm..hello?

(sarcasm on)

Why are you worried? All they are doing is crashing protons into each other, something that happens all the time in nature. From the article:

'It will be highest energy that man has ever created, but the key word is man, because in nature protons are smashing against each other all the time at much higher energies than those of the LHC,' Fairbairn explained.
Every time mankind does something they say they fully understand, there can be no ramifications beyond what is anticipated.

(end sarcasm)

It reminds me of when I ripped a hole in my wall to do a simple plumbing repair and I found black mold. I certainly did not see THAT coming and boy did THAT have ramifications beyond what I anticipated!

However, in CERN's defense, if it were not for scientists making calculated risks, we would be without many of our technological advancements that we take for granted. So, I guess we should all just cross our fingers this summer and hope the earth does not implode on itself. Maybe, just maybe, we can find out something about the creation of matter (edit-add) and possibly create the next gen of internet access in the process.


RickNY
Premium
join:2000-11-02
Farmingville, NY
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to Rick
The article was not specific enough to fill you in -- but I can give you a hint -- they are not re-creating 'the big bang', but rather the environment to re-create the various states of matter that existed very shortly after. I'm proud to say that I along with many of my co-workers were involved with the construction of a good portion of the magnets that are being utilized in the LHC (Large Hadron Collider), as they were manufactured about 45 miles south of you at Brookhaven -- where we have been successfully running the RHIC accelerator for about 8 years now, despite the similar uninformed claims that it would also cause a certain black hole and subsequent destruction of the earth after starting up.

Read a little and educate yourself before spouting off and making yourself appear ignorant.


jlsamsel

join:2006-08-26
Stixville

Welcome to the DCU

Go for it! I need my origin tweaked a bit.

Big Bang!

Crisis on Infinite Earths!

Zero Hour!

Infinite Crisis!

52!

Final Crisis!
--
Hulloooo, Zeba Neighba...


spamd
Premium
join:2001-04-22
Cherry Valley, IL
reply to Sunburn

Re: The End

The "Big Bang" is supposed to be on a much smaller scale. But the fear is even if small there is a small percent that it could suck in everything. The thing is we have never tried this before and there are no guarantee's.

Particle Accelerators do not come close to what is being done with the "Big Bang".
--
When everything is coming your way, you are in the wrong lane.


spamd
Premium
join:2001-04-22
Cherry Valley, IL

Kardashev scale

The scientist think we are making headway toward a type 1 civilization by performing these experiments. The problem is most advanced civilized nations tend to blow them selves up in the process.

Kardashev scale
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_···riticism
--
When everything is coming your way, you are in the wrong lane.


DrModem
Trust Your Doctor
Premium
join:2006-10-19
USA
kudos:1

2 edits
reply to Rick

Re: Umm..hello?

I'm not a big fan of CERN but suffice it to say I highly doubt mankind is capable of producing black holes and destroying earth and the solar system at the moment. But scientists have egos too you know. And I'm sure they'd like to to think they are capable.

they might blow up their lab, but the earth and solar system? Yeah, right. It seems there is no limit to the size of mankind's ego.


Shamayim
I already have a Messiah.
Premium
join:2002-09-23

What fools these mortals be

". . . in which they plan to recreate The Big Bang."

Recreate the Big Bang? Give me a break
--
Who is Jesus? and Why it matters (to YOU).


Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

We could have done this.

Here is the Website of Walter L. Wagner the nut who is suing The Large Hadron Collider, and Fermilab. »www.lhcdefense.org/

It is too bad we could have done this sort of science a couple of decades ago. Remember the Super Conducting Super Collider they started to build in Texas it would have been much, much larger then even CERN's collider.
--
Send a prayer to Allah, eat Beans.


packetpusher
Premium
join:2005-03-22
Oakville, ON

Could the article have been less technical

Maybe I just wanted more geek appeal or something, but I wanted to know SOMETHING...ANYTHING technical about this new grid network they're building. I spent a few minutes on their site and didn't see anything too technical. I think it's a bit inaccurately to describe the current internet as a "...hotchpotch of cables and routing equipment, much of which was originally designed for telephone calls and therefore lacks the capacity for high-speed data transmission." I'll go check my GSR 12810 to see where the phone plugs into it on Monday.
--
Luminaire
My Blog


insomniac
Oh Yeah
Premium
join:2002-09-22
Naperville, IL
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit

News Flash: Don't get your news from this site

Both this posting and the Times Online article show that the writers have a very, very poor grasp of the concept of grid computing. How do I know? I was an LHC grid sysadmin until very recently.

For now, I'll just point out two things:

- "The Grid" is not the name of anything and should not be used as a proper noun, ever.

- "The new Big Bang is set to take place sometime this summer." ?! That statement makes absolutely no sense.

If anyone wants to know more, I suggest you start at Wikipedia and then do some research on your own.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_computing
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider
--
If everything seems to be going well, you've obviously overlooked something.


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House
reply to Gridfear

Re: "The Grid" a long way away from general internet use

said by FFH:

The idea is that it will ultimately be what replaces the current Internet for the mainstream public across the world.
Sounds right to me. I see us following the same path to deployment that we followed for the established internet.

said by FFH:

Think of it like the road system in Germany. Super high speed autobahns tie together cities. But when you get to those cities, speeds drop off precipitously.

Roads and transport are governed by numerous physical limitations that don't apply to shuttling the electrons around.

As far as the data rate differences, it's the same as our existing media structure. Data across the peers travels at one rate. Data to the CO, a fraction of that. Data to the node, a fraction of that.

At present, the average (don't know about median) speed to the user is acceptable-to-good, but not inspirational.

said by FFH:

The cities will NEVER have speeds like the autobahns. And home users will NEVER have the speeds that tie these research centers together - at least not in my or even current teens lifetimes. Will home users speeds rise? Of course. But it won't approach the speeds tying together these research centers.
Sounds like the class warfare talking points. Our (USA) poorest people live far better than kings did for thousands of years, but many only focus on the top tier and the gap between.

It's OK by me if the Top Tier Standard of Living doubles if it means mine triples. That would mean our gap would widen even further, but I would be ahead.

It's OK by me if the pencil neck's internet increases ten-fold, even if mine only increases five-fold. It's a losing game to base your success on others.

NV
--
Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd.


KoolMoe
Aw Man
Premium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to chakey

Re: Umm..hello?

Of all the threats to this planet and the life it endures, this would seem to be at least the coolest way to go.
A wayward meteor is a close second.
Both are way higher on the list than the more savage threats we bring on ourselves through war and terror.
KM


HalfBaked

@metrocast.net
reply to Sunburn

Re: The End

Because we dont want the whole world to be like New York?


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House
reply to spamd

Upside people, upside.

said by MrMoody:

"The experiment has provoked opposition. Two scientists from Hawaii have lodged a challenge at a Honolulu court, claiming the accelerator could create a black hole that could destroy the Earth"
But they're pretty sure that won't happen.
This could be a good thing. We build one of these things in SF,CA; another in Greenwich Village; one in Asheville NC, one in Denver, one in Seattle, ½Doz around Vermont, one in Palm Beach, one in Hollywood,.....

NV
--
Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd.


Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
reply to RickNY

Re: Umm..hello?

said by RickNY:

Read a little and educate yourself before spouting off and making yourself appear ignorant.
As for educating myself, I'm educated enough to know that these scientists DON'T know what the result of this will be.
Otherwise..why do it at all?

And, while it may be rampant speculation that they could cause some catastrophic event..the kinds of things they're doing are believed to be those that form the basis for the earliest beginnings of this universe.

Why then, I ask..should we all be put at risk..even if that risk is slight at best?
What are the benefits here to society? I'm hard pressed to find any really..except to perhaps answer some unanswered questions.
I am not opposed to scientific research. Not at all.
In fact..while it's been many years ago now..I once worked for a pioneer in the super computer field whose equipment was at the forefront of scientific research.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_Da···poration
And, I can guarantee you, your assessment wouldn't be approved of by the likes of people like Seymour Cray either who also worked for them and in fact.helped found the company.

Science, and research..does often involve pushing the boundaries of knowledge..and sometimes..taking risks.
There are risks with sending people into space..and creating new vaccines. But, think about those risks..and you'll realize that they have limits placed on them. Vaccines..tried and tested in limited control groups..
people spent into space..not entire populations put at risk.

What you are suggesting here is that it's ok because you somehow are involved in building and/or the design of these magnets. I think that's great..and kudos to you..
but the whole population shouldn't be put at risk..

even if there is only the slightest chance.

This doesn't mean that research should stop. But that's why there are ever more advanced super computer technologies..to aid in that research.

I'm sorry..but I think when you get into smashing particles in an accelerator like this..

there might very well be some unwelcome result.

And ...you..and the scientists involved..can't say with 100% certainty that there won't be.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic!


antwanp
Beyond FM, Beyond AM, XM Satellite Radio
Premium
join:2002-05-14
Cedar Hill, TX

1 edit
reply to Transmaster

Re: We could have done this.

Ah, the Clinton folly of ending the SuperCollider project... Many engineers in my town of Cedar Hill were forced to relocate after their previously high paying jobs, pretty much just disappeared. It wasn't until the Dot Com boom that Cedar Hill's population really started to emulate the early 90s...

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercondu···Collider

-Antwan L.
--
The Perils of Living in 3-D: »www.antwanpayne.com


carlosboozer

@swbell.net
said by antwanp:

Ah, the Clinton folly of ending the SuperCollider project... Many engineers in my town of Cedar Hill were forced to relocate after their previously high paying jobs, pretty much just disappeared. It wasn't until the Dot Com boom that Cedar Hill's population really started to emulate the early 90s...

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercondu···Collider

-Antwan L.
Did you read your own link? It says Clinton supported it, Congress cancelled it.


Smokescreen

@speakeasy.net

"Research"... riiiiight...

I think we all know this is just a ruse to allow quicker downloading of pornography. And a thinly veiled ruse at that, I mean, researching "The Big Bang"?!? Come on, CERN, you guys are smart, get a better cover!



anon name

@k12.oh.us
reply to KoolMoe

Re: Umm..hello?

i think it would be a cool way to go.. getting sucked into a black hole or earth imploding