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Comments on news posted 2008-04-10 10:46:34: Verizon yesterday filed suit against Time Warner Cable for this and other ads the cable company has been running in FiOS territories. ..

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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT

Time Warners claim is 100% accurate.....

They were rolling out their fiber network in the Columbus ohio area in 1997 I believe.

While I give verizon kudos for their big investment..it is one out of sheer necessity and was about 10 years late to the fiber party IMHO.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic!



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Marketing Dept types are mostly sleazeballs

In a corporation the marketing departments are usually the ones with the least tenuous hold on the truth. The old saw "buyer beware" applies as always to ANYONE buying anything. Lies are their stock in trade.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page


datwell1

join:2002-01-08
Falls Church, VA

FIOS is a super service

Here in Fairfax County, VA the choices are Cox Cable, satellite or Verizon's FIOS. My daughter's family have moved from Cox to FIOS and couldn't be happier. Verizon's internet service and TV picture quality are simply the best (the Motorola STBs could be better however). I have FIOS internet but kept Dish Network because of their superior DVRs. Overall, Verizon has "built the better mousetrap" IMHO.

Just my 2 cents.

--Doug



hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1
reply to Rick

Re: Time Warners claim is 100% accurate.....

Ohh come on! Give me a break.

They may have fiber in their network, but it does not go to the house and it does nothing like FIOS.

You love stretching the truth, huh?
and let me guess, you work in the bullshit errrrr... i mean marketing department i bet.

--
Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people.


probboy

join:2008-01-10
Natick, MA

For 99.999% of the population, it doesn't really matter where the fiber terminates, be it at the house or at the node. All people care about what services are offered at what price.



supergirl

join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL

1 recommendation

reply to FFH

Re: Marketing Dept types are mostly sleazeballs

said by FFH:

In a corporation the marketing departments are usually the ones with the least tenuous hold on the truth. The old saw "buyer beware" applies as always to ANYONE buying anything. Lies are their stock in trade.
That really is more for politicians. Marketers don't lie they just make it prettier than it really is. Politicians just lie about everything including the hookers they paid.
--
Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl


hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1
reply to probboy

Re: Time Warners claim is 100% accurate.....

said by probboy:

For 99.999% of the population, it doesn't really matter where the fiber terminates, be it at the house or at the node. All people care about what services are offered at what price.
\
then why would TW go to the extent to claim they have fiber if only 99.999999% of users dont care?

I see what you are saying, but it's nothing but bullshit when TW is trying to compare themselves to FIOS.
--
Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people.

hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
reply to hopeflicker

network doesnt have to have fiber to their door. The ad states that TWC has more fiber- does not state anything about going to the door. They're entire nationwide backbone all the way up to the neighborhoods are fiber optic. which is truth in advertising. VZ didnt start this until a few years ago- and then did it wall the way.



Realtech23
Premium
join:2006-03-27
Olean, NY

1 edit

For the Customer it's all about Implementation!!!

In this area of Olean, NY Time Warner runs faster and IS more stable than Verizon's DSL. Yes I know they are talking about Fios but Verizon said since last June they were putting Fios in no later than June 07 and still nothing. They just keep pushing it back. Yeah I'll wire an entire city with Fios but what does it matter if I call Verizon and say "hey i want your service now" and they say "oh sorry but we still can not install it in your home yet". Call Time Warner and ask them to install Cable in your house and you have it. No excuses or waiting or FALSE statements of When you can get it like Fios does. Time Warner realizes the money to be made in this area where verizon just cares about Major Cities.
--
I am the Coyote



CEDog

@comcast.net

Where is the ad copy with false claims?

That spot is pretty funny, but it doesn't make any false claims. I looked on youtube for others that might, but didn't see any. The article says "this and other ads" so does anyone know where to find the other spots or ad copy that Verizon is taking issue with?



kyler13
Is your fiber grounded?

join:2006-12-12
Arnold, MD
reply to probboy

Re: Time Warners claim is 100% accurate.....

said by probboy:

For 99.999% of the population, it doesn't really matter where the fiber terminates, be it at the house or at the node. All people care about what services are offered at what price.
What a loaded statement. Of course they don't care about the logistics, but what those logistics translate to are exactly what people care about. The further away from the home the fiber terminates, the more crowded the copper network and the harder it is to reliably provide feature-rich services.

Corydon
Cultivant son jardin
Premium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO

1 recommendation

reply to FFH

Re: Marketing Dept types are mostly sleazeballs

said by FFH:

In a corporation the marketing departments are usually the ones with the least tenuous hold on the truth. The old saw "buyer beware" applies as always to ANYONE buying anything. Lies are their stock in trade.
Truer words were never spoken...er, written (typed?)

I haven't watched the TW ad lately, but IIRC they just talk about having a fiber network of their own. Nothing about FTTH.

Besides, if we really want to split hairs, Verizon has a HFC network too, since everything from the ONT to the various devices in the home is copper.

Someone mentioned that it's all about the services you can deliver to the consumer at the price you can deliver it, not the way you do it. If the cable companies can squeeze enough out of their HFC network to compete with Verizon, they'll do fine.

Hopefully a combination of DOCSIS 3 and IPTV will do just that since the chances of Qwest rolling out a FTTH solution here seem to be just marginally better than your chances of finding an honest and knowledgeable marketing flak.


kyler13
Is your fiber grounded?

join:2006-12-12
Arnold, MD
reply to hottboiinnc

Re: Time Warners claim is 100% accurate.....

said by hottboiinnc:

network doesnt have to have fiber to their door. The ad states that TWC has more fiber- does not state anything about going to the door. They're entire nationwide backbone all the way up to the neighborhoods are fiber optic. which is truth in advertising. VZ didnt start this until a few years ago- and then did it wall the way.
About 10 years ago, having a all-fiber nationwide backbone was a big deal (think @Home) but it's 2008 and everyone rides fiber backbones, just not necessarily owned by their provider. The mis-information here is how accessible is that fiber. The average college kid would love a bargain on a keg of beer, but how do you think he/she would feel if you told them they had to drink it through a stirrer straw?


Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39
reply to CEDog

Re: Where is the ad copy with false claims?

I spoke with Verizon recently, and they alerted me to the fact that the FULL ad (which I hadn't seen run in its entirety) does suggest that you need a satellite dish to get FiOSTV.

The full ad:

»www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLib···VERS.swf

So both sides are being dishonest here.

Time Warner Cable's network is not better than FiOS, and they're intentionally being misleading about fiber in terms of core vs. last mile connectivity. They're also bluntly lying to consumers about needing a satellite dish.

They are technically right about Verizon being slow on delivering fiber (particularly if you're familiar with their promises to PA and elsewhere in the 90's and while named NYNEX, Bell Atlantic, etc.).

But on the flip side, CNET never said FiOS service was "near-flawless," they said it needed to be near flawless in order to compete.

So misrepresentation and lies all around! Another day in American marketing.



Morac
Cat god

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

Ads are way off

While I can't say Verizon's ads are 100% truthful, I know the cable company ads are way off. There's one that Comcast is running now, which annoys the hell out of me. It shows a one "glowing" guy (a play off of FIOS's ad) running up to his neighbor touting how he's getting FIOS installed so he can get a fiber connection. The neighbor claims he gets the best TV, Internet and phone service from Comcast via a "fiber network". The first guy then tells Verizon to "stop digging".

This is ridiculous. While Comcast technically has more miles of fiber cable than Verizon, it's because Comcast is offered in a lot more places than FIOS, not because Comcast has a better network. FIOS's fiber runs to the home and beats Comcast with respect to performance and quality for the same price or cheaper than Comcast.
--

The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired.



hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1
reply to hottboiinnc

Re: Time Warners claim is 100% accurate.....

said by hottboiinnc:

network doesnt have to have fiber to their door. The ad states that TWC has more fiber- does not state anything about going to the door. They're entire nationwide backbone all the way up to the neighborhoods are fiber optic. which is truth in advertising. VZ didnt start this until a few years ago- and then did it wall the way.
But the reason for TW to advertise their "fiber" network is to try to compare to FIOS.

Yes, they may have fiber in their system, but then again you can not compare TWs fiber to FIOS.
--
Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people.


jerryjam

@cox.net
reply to Morac

Re: Ads are way off

Cable = shared network on coax

Expand your moderator at work


elbm

join:2000-08-03
Reisterstown, MD

2 edits
reply to Rick

Re: Time Warners claim is 100% accurate.....

Verizon (Actually it's predecesors Bell Atlantic and Nynex) have been deploying fiber since the early 80s. Verizon has more fiber deployed, even minus the fios fiber, then Time Warner probably will ever have. Verizon's core network/inter office facilities have been running in excess of 10 gig for over a decade with legs now running in excess of 320 gig.

Once it hits the CO/pop/RT every phone call made runs on fiber, every T1 runs on fiber, every DS3 runs on fiber, every gig-e, every fractional......

Time Warner cannot even come close to the bandwidth capabilities Verizon has and has had for many years. The Bells were the pioneers in the deployment of fiber.

edit:

I did not have time to look it up earlier, but here is some perspective.

Time Warner-- 24,000 miles of fiber in their network.
»www.twtelecom.com/about_us/networks.html

Comcast-- 90,000 miles of fiber in their network.
»www.comcastcommercial.com/index.···temid=33

Verizon-- 250,000 miles of fiber in West Virginia alone!
»www22.verizon.com/about/community/wv/

To make statements that the telcos were 10 years too late to the party is an uninformed opinion. The rbocs were the first to deploy fiber and did in a big way, but not with consumer data in mind. Rboc fiber was deployed toward a different end. They were selling dial tone and business data and built a network to carry that second to none. Consumer data connections were not a market until the 90's. The cable companies were not investing and building with an "eye" toward the future-- they just got lucky that their network was more rapidly and economically adaptable to consumer data needs than the telco networks were.

Cable has spent pennies on their networks to deliver data and it will catch up with them in time.


Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
reply to probboy

I would disagree with that. While they do not care how it gets to them, they do care how often there is a problem. In all the years I have had cable internet (beta tester for it years ago) through all the companies (some went bankrupt or bought out and I move a lot) the vast majority of failures were between me and the headend. Usually a noisy line due to hardware failure between me and the headend. FTTH should eliminate the vast majority of those issues. It is very likely that moving to Docsis 3.0 will probably exacerbate these issues further (based on the history that every time speed increases the specs tighten for "good signal"). From that perspective I think upgrading to Docsis 3.0 is probably throwing good money after bad.


Artec

join:2003-02-23
Middletown, NJ

1 edit
reply to Morac

Re: Ads are way off

Can you seriously tell me that comcast has more miles of Fiber laid that verzion? Is Comcast a Tier 1 Backbone Nope tier 2 nope..

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_1_carrier

Oh and btw thats on Fiber not copper. And such their traffic does run over AT&T and other carriers since they are not a backbone provider, Hell a comcast rep once told me they run off the NASA backbone ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!
So please get your facts strait before you post. Why dont you look up how much fiber verizon has run... Oh and BTW Verzion owns UNNET..Remember them?



Hes Dead Jim

@psu.edu

DSL?

Doesn't all your dsl traffic to/from telcos go over fiber once past the dslam?
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSLAM



Loker
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Fargo, ND

This is expected....

All of this is expected....The only issue I take with the TWC ad is the satellite statement. TWC is on an HFC system and the fiber goes all the way to the node (this is the route most phone companies are taking now anyway...). It does allow them to make the claim of having more fiber and from a technical aspect a FTTN system should be able to keep pace with a FTTH system for quite sometime still...FTTH is more future proof (way more future proof) but as far as consumers are concerned for the next 8-10 years FTTN should perform just as well. (possibly even beyond that?)
--
"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking


Artec

join:2003-02-23
Middletown, NJ
reply to Hes Dead Jim

Re: DSL?

you are correct.



Morac
Cat god

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Artec

Re: Ads are way off

Just because Verizon is a Tier 1 provider doesn't necessarily mean they have more miles of Fiber. It requires more fiber to wire an entire state, then it does to run a few lines between a handful of major cities. Not only that, but Verizon didn't even run the lines themselves, they simply bought UUNet when MCI collapsed.

Comcast wired nearly the entire state of NJ with fiber about 10 years ago. They've done the same with every area that they service. What they didn't wire is the last mile or so to the home. If Comcast had bothered to wire the last mile to the homes when they did their upgrade years ago, they would be the undisputed champion of service. They didn't since coax can carry more data than copper and they figured no one would ever wire fiber to homes since it is so expensive. Verizon proved them wrong.

The problem with Verizon is that they cherry pick the areas they wire. For example Verizon ran fiber wires right passed my development, but never bothered to wire my development so I'm in a stones throw from FIOS, but can't get it.

Also Comcast does have a fairly substantial network. I have to travel at least 6 hops to get out to the Internet and Comcast hooks directly to Level 3 and Global Crossing, both Tier 1 providers.

--

The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired.



OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH
reply to Karl Bode

Re: Where is the ad copy with false claims?

Yea, TWC u should of know u'd gets ur nuts in a sling saying that "dont i need a satellite dish with you guys" Thats totaly misleading. On one hand your trying to attack Fios, thus the fiber claims, then you drop the ball and get verisons tv offerings via a partnership with DirecTv in the non fios areas. A better move would of been to film this in a rual area, then you'd have a valid argument. But im guessing that faving a pig or a cow in the background just wasent pleasing to ur marketing eyes.



Hes Dead Jim

@psu.edu
reply to Artec

Re: DSL?

so its not like FiOS is the first time verizon has been doing fiberoptics like the twc ad makes one to believe very misguiding


EPS4

join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA
reply to Hes Dead Jim

I believe it depends on the capability of the central office- most probably use fiber by now, but this wasn't always the case, and fiber-optics aren't necessarily a precondition for DSL.



Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39
reply to OSUGoose

Re: Where is the ad copy with false claims?

The other stuff about fiber they could probably get away with, because it's vague misrepresentation that would fly over a judge's head (unless he had a clear understanding of the difference between core and last mile infrastructure).

But the satellite dish quip is stupid. Verizon will probably win the case based on that alone. It's probably why the most common version of the ad seen omits that bit.


Jerkface

join:2005-06-05
Hackettstown, NJ
reply to Loker

Re: This is expected....

TWC should be kicking themselves right now. Its defintely not smart of them to show that commercial. (I actually just saw that commercial on the tv as we speak)

In the end, verizon will win. Sad, but true.