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Comments on news posted 2008-04-10 10:46:34: Verizon yesterday filed suit against Time Warner Cable for this and other ads the cable company has been running in FiOS territories. ..

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Technogeez
Agape in amazement.
Premium
join:2007-01-20
reply to Qumahlin

Re: Time Warners claim is 100% accurate.....

But not an inch of it goes right to someone's house.
--
Read your contract and TOS before signing anything.


Technogeez
Agape in amazement.
Premium
join:2007-01-20
reply to tc1uscg
You apparently haven't experienced the joys of weather-related satellite service interruptions...
--
Read your contract and TOS before signing anything.


Technogeez
Agape in amazement.
Premium
join:2007-01-20
reply to kyler13
He'd say "pass the straw, please."


Technogeez
Agape in amazement.
Premium
join:2007-01-20
reply to Karl Bode

Re: Where is the ad copy with false claims?

Well, it's not really a blatant lie -- the TW shill asks "Don't I need a satellite dish?" and the "fiber guy" never answers the question. The correct answer would have been "You go ahead and eat your cereal and leave the technical stuff to me, OK? Of course you don't need a dish -- we bring high definition TV, crystal clear phone, and blazing internet access right to your door on a dedicated fiber."

But I wouldn't expect TW to accurately represent FiOS to their own detriment.
--
Read your contract and TOS before signing anything.

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to aefstoggaflm

Re: Time Warners claim is 100% accurate.....

said by aefstoggaflm:

A bit off topic, but important.

»www.grc.com/securitynow.htm

Episode #139 | 10 Apr 2008 | 81 min.
Network Congestion

quote:
Steve: ...And then when I got my T1s, or certainly when most people switched from a modem to a broadband connection, to either DSL, high-speed DSL or cable modem, it's like, whoa, just think of all the stuff I can get now. I mean, so there...

Leo: You do, you start downloading stuff.

Steve: You know what I mean? Yes. There is behavior elasticity in the type of connection you have and how feasible it is for you to do certain things on the 'Net. And so what that means to me is that people who have fiber are going to be much more inclined to grab big chunks of stuff because now they can so much more easily...

same could be related to cars, before the US interstate system people took Greyhounds or trains for long hauls. the Interstate opened and everyone started driving distances longer then with in the same state. and as anyone who has used I-95 knows, congestion is common.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to Rick
Best idea, for Verizon to make an ad saying they INVENTED fiber, weren't they and Bell Labs the same thing corporate history wise? lets see TWC beat that.

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to nitzan
said by nitzan:

The only cable broadband to even get close to the speed and reliability I got from Fios is RCN Cable up in NYC. Those guys rock. As far as TW Cable? they're the worst cable company I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with when it comes to performance - their service crawls. Only Comcast can compete with them for the prestigious spot of #1 sucky ISP.
RCN is better because they have a higher node density/less people on each node. Their network was HFC from day 1. Not retrofitted like TWC. Also RCN built their network as a Metro Ethernet provider with the expectation of being able to be a business grade last mile provider. If I can Verizon I would have bought RCN, rebranded, and slowly upgraded to a PON architecture. RCN has lots of spare fiber, I see Toilet Paper roll thick fiber on poles in NYC.

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to smcallah
said by smcallah:

said by Lazlow:

the vast majority of failures were between me and the headend. Usually a noisy line due to hardware failure between me and the headend. FTTH should eliminate the vast majority of those issues
How exactly would FTTH eliminate problems between you and the headend/CO? It's not like the fiber goes straight to the Verizon CO with no equipment on it.

The problems will be in the same place, between you and the headend. Fiber is not immune to signal issues either, just outside interference issues.
Um, there is nothing in between you and the head end except for welded splices and 1 optical splitter. With HFC, DC power injectors, a fiber node, 2-10 amplifiers, 100s of taps and threaded connectors waiting to rust and get rained on. Wanna play copper last mile roulette?

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to Fiber Guy

Re: taking bets

Sigh, what is the definition of Fiber? trunk lines regardless of strand count? ROW filled with atleast 1 strand? Do you count 2 FO trunks in 2 conduits in the same ROW as 1 "unit of more" or as 2 "units of more"? Or are we looking at "per gigabits per mile"? Does DWDM count make 1 strand into 50? What about redundant routes? What about leasing of fiber? long term or short term?

EDIT: What about multimode fiber? What about datacenter fiber?

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to fibersfiber

Re: its all about money

Atleast there are periods in this post. Can we have a return or a tab now?

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to Artec

Re: Ads are way off

said by Artec:

So please get your facts strait before you post. Why dont you look up how much fiber verizon has run... Oh and BTW Verzion owns UNNET..Remember them?
Remember Verizon doesn't pay ANY traffic costs for anything coming from FIOS Internet. They own UUNET, they get paid to have bandwidth.

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to UUnettech
Sigh, what is the definition of Fiber? trunk lines regardless of strand count? ROW filled with atleast 1 strand? Do you count 2 FO trunks in 2 conduits in the same ROW as 1 "unit of more" or as 2 "units of more"? Or are we looking at "per gigabits per mile"? Does DWDM count make 1 strand into 50? What about redundant routes? What about leasing of fiber? long term or short term?

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to EPS4

Re: DSL?

There is p2p microwave links, coaxial cables, and if your insane enough bonded T1s with amplifiers every 10kft. Wouldn't be too surprised if some rural COs are powered by satellite (voice quality and dialup must royally suck).


CEDog

@comcast.net
reply to patcat88

Re: taking bets

Great points. I am fairly certain that the MSOs, with their 100% HFC FTTN network architectures, have much more domestic fiber route miles than the RBOCs, who are still less than 10% into their FTTx upgrades. TWC probably does have more fiber in service than Verizon. This would be an interesting challenge if there was a fair and agreeable way to clear and settle funds, and a good way to get a ruling on whose horse wins. Some of the fiber mile statistics may get reported to the FCC on an annual basis, but I doubt the MSOs and the RBOCs use identical reporting methods, so finding the source of truth for the actual mileage for an apples-apples comparison would be difficult.

I'd propose using single route mile standard regardless of trunk/conduit/fiber strand counts, wavelengths used, or active bandwidth capacity. In this measure, trunk rights of way into major datacenters and interconnects would only count as single route miles. Long-term leases of dark fiber should count in the service providers totals, but short-term fiber leases, and 3rd party transport should not count.

Any suggestions on how to identify an official to preside over the results?

smcallah

join:2004-08-05
Home
reply to patcat88

Re: Time Warners claim is 100% accurate.....

said by patcat88:

[Um, there is nothing in between you and the head end except for welded splices and 1 optical splitter. With HFC, DC power injectors, a fiber node, 2-10 amplifiers, 100s of taps and threaded connectors waiting to rust and get rained on. Wanna play copper last mile roulette?
I don't get your point. You act as if when something in the cable plant breaks that they won't fix it. How exactly is it playing roulette if they're going to fix it?

"Oh, that tap doesn't work anymore? Just leave it, those people can do without TV, Phone, and Internet, who cares?"

No, they don't care about the revenue at all, they'll let everything break and not fix it...


a333
A hot cup of integrals please

join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY

1 edit
reply to CEDog

Re: taking bets

do you realize that Verizon has thousands of miles of OVERSEAS fiber, not even counting their extensive domestic backbone networks? BTW, ever knew that Verizon/AT&T are both Tier 1 providers, meaning they get free peering to any other Tier-1 provider on the net. No wonder we ppl in VerizonLand, with FiOS get 20 Meg SYMMETRIC speeds. Take that, cable! oh, and no sandvine/caps included...

Trust me, even if all of the RBOC's consumer business evaporated overnight, their corporate/gov't IP backbone services would keep them well afloat.


a333
A hot cup of integrals please

join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
reply to patcat88
by any count, when undersea cables are taken into account, along with foreign links (ie Verizon's Europe network), RBOC's do indeed have more fiber than MSO's could have in their dizziest daydreams.


a333
A hot cup of integrals please

join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY

1 edit
reply to fibersfiber

Re: its all about money

a 'Fibersfiber'
en ingles, por favor?

Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
reply to smcallah

Re: Time Warners claim is 100% accurate.....

smcallah

The problem comes in that it is apparently exceedingly difficult for them to track down what exactly (of the above list) is causing the problem. In the last two years I have been down for over a month on three different occasions. It is always a trivial thing(last time it was a cracked line right next to the amp) that is broken and is easy to fix(once they FINALLY figure out what is broken). It usually takes about ten (10) visits from low level techs in order to get a senior tech (they used to call them line techs) out. That amounts to ten(10) afternoons I have to take off from work to wait for them to show up (if they show up). In this last round they wanted to charge me for a service call for not being home (which I was). Fortunately the tech they sent could not describe my house. It also did not hurt that I was on the phone with my Corporate Escalation rep asking her WTF the tech was.

Sorry about the rant.

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
reply to smcallah


VideoGuy

@verizon.net
reply to elbm
Then why do VZ and AT&T lease fiber from cable companies every day in virtually every major market in the country? There are more MSO operated OC pipes leased by Bell hauling tandem and CO traffic than most of you guys could even dream of. In fact, it may be no small irony to learn that many of you with Bell phone have your LD calls handled by cable fiber every day. And yes, it is the same network they use for their tv, internet and phone business for consumers. If the cable fiber was so inferior, why do you think a growing percentage of cell sites get back-hauled on cable fiber? (THERE's a few news article for you journalists out there). Fiber is fiber, folks. What matters is how competent the companies are at building and managing that fiber.

Until I see fiber running from the CO into my modem or my set top box, it's all HFC, baby. All of it. Period. It goes from glass to a box to coax or cat-5.


VideoGuy

@verizon.net
reply to Jerkface

Re: This is expected....

Don't be so hasty. Remember that VZ is running FiOS ads in markets that are not even close to being built all the way out, so many of the people who see this ad can only get DSL and a Dish bundled. And you'd better believe if you call for FiOS and you can't get it, they'll be glad to cross sell that call into a Dish bundle. I would bet that upwards of 40-50% of all Verizon territory homes that see FiOS ads can't get FiOS service.

hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
reply to hopeflicker

Re: Time Warners claim is 100% accurate.....

TWC does not say they're system is direct to the door. Just says they have a fiber optic network. Thats the thing. They are well within their rights to say they have it. They just don't say how much of it is. But its only maybe a few hundred feet thats not fiber.

But on another note VZ is just pissed at TWC about their Digital phone and other services


hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1
said by hottboiinnc:

TWC does not say they're system is direct to the door. Just says they have a fiber optic network. Thats the thing. They are well within their rights to say they have it. They just don't say how much of it is. But its only maybe a few hundred feet thats not fiber.

But on another note VZ is just pissed at TWC about their Digital phone and other services
Yes, i agree with ya. They do have fiber in their system. My whole rant here is they are misleading people to think that they have **FIBER** like Verizon does, when in fact, they DONT.
--
Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people.


tc1uscg

join:2005-03-09
Clinton Township, MI
reply to Technogeez
No, I haven't.. but there are 2 on top of homes right next door to me. The one guy has his on his 1st level roof, said he had some "jitters" during a windy storm (lots of trees that could have caused this). The other guy, had it for 3 years said he's never had anything go wrong except when his tuner failed. I'm sure that short of a flock of 747's flying over or some squirrel parking is big fat butt in front of the LNB device, signal dropouts seem to be few if not far far between. Heck, I'm sure it's more reliable then my VoIP service I had with plutorocket (aka sunrocket).

smcallah

join:2004-08-05
Home
reply to patcat88
Lazy and unsupervised technicians obviously.

Are you trying to imply such a thing wouldn't happen with Verizon? Be real.

I'm neither for cable or telco here, I'm just being realistic. Both have their faults, but neither one as a whole is stupid.

You can't fault an entire company for what a few soon to be unemployed or currently unemployed techs do. And that is my point.

Lazlow

join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

1 edit
Employees are going to be employees, regardless of who employs them. But, if you can reduce the number of things that can go wrong it is more likely that the average employee will be able to figure out the problem. If you have a device with ten parts and a competing product with 100 parts, which one are you better off using? All things break down. The fewer things that can break down the easier it is to figure out the problem. Cable just has too many things that can go wrong between the house and the head end. Fiber has things that can break down as well, but they are far fewer in number and even the ones that are there are not as susceptible to partial failure. When fiber hardware fails it is usually dead, pretty much go or no go. When cable fails it can sorta work. When you get 50 things in somebody's connection chain that sorta work (most peoples), how do you find the one that is not sorta working enough?

hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
reply to hopeflicker
they're not misleading because they don't state how far the fiber goes into their network. And out of VZ's footprint how much of it is actually FTTH?

TWC has MORE Fiber in their network than VZ


hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1
said by hottboiinnc:

they're not misleading because they don't state how far the fiber goes into their network. And out of VZ's footprint how much of it is actually FTTH?

TWC has MORE Fiber in their network than VZ
Are they not comparing it to FIOS? You know they are.
--
Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people.


batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
reply to Morac

Re: Ads are way off

If fiber isn't in your home you don't have fiber. End of B.S.