WiseOldNerd
De gustibus non est disputandum
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join:2001-11-25
Phoenix, AZ | Don't Hold Your Breath
Martin and the other Republican sycophants will hold out as long as possible since they have no interest in doing things correctly only in doing what their paymasters have ordained.
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My perception is REALITY |
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
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join:2004-01-06
Sweden |  Great!
As a general class ARS operator, I'm happy about the outcome of this..
BPL is a lost cause in the U.S...
-Tzale |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
1 edit | reply to WiseOldNerd
Re: Don't Hold Your Breath
ARRL won on 2 items:
- that the FCC should not have refused to provide some FCC studies that said BPL could cause serious interference.
- that the FCC didn't provide a justification for a technical interference criteria it used.
But the FCC won on what I think is a big item:
- the right to allow unlicensed devices to interfere with licensed spectrum. The ARRL wants the FCC to shut down any BPL systems that cause interference. The court said the FCC doesn't have to do that.
So, who really wins here? The FCC didn't follow some procedures it should have. So now all they have to do is cross some T's and dot some I's and they have followed the court ruling. But they still have the right to ignore BPL interference as long as they follow the correct procedures on hearings and notifications.
The ARRL won on 2 points, but lost on 2 points of their complaint: Here is the actual ruling:
»pacer.cadc.uscourts.gov/common/o···2979.pdf
And here is the key part of the ARRL complaint that the ARRL lost and isn't talking about:
First, without acknowledging it, the Commission abrogated seventy years of precedent by invoking section 302 of the Act to authorize the operation of unlicensed devices that could interfere with licensed devices, and by no longer requiring them to cease operation if they actually cause
harmful interference. --
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
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join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX | reply to Tzale
Re: Great!
I agree here. WiMax will most likely take it's place as the way to wire up fringe areas. BPL clearly can not compete on the bandwidth front so deployment will be severely limited anywhere there's major ISP's operating already. |
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PthirusPubis
@comcast.net
 from:
Cabal 
| Enough already!
The hams have had exclusive use of us taxpayers radio spectrum long enough. Too bad for our little primadonnas but it's time to kick this small group of habitual complainers off the spectrum playground.
We should use the freq's for more practical things like delivering the Net using BPL. Sheesh, I rather see the spectrum used for home wireless devices. |
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satellite68
join:2007-04-11
Louisville, KY | and where you live is immune from natural/manmade disasters? |
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jacour
join:2001-12-11
Ypsilanti, MI
·Comcast
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Don't Hold Your Breath
The result is not so dismal. The court has the right to rule that the FCC's action is arbitrary and capricious, but they can only rule on what is in the record. Since the record does not contain the redacted technical studies, the ARRL could not make that assertion and the court could not raise the issue sua sponte based on their in camera review of the documents.
Now the case gets remanded and that is where the fun will begin. |
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battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000 | reply to PthirusPubis
Re: Enough already!
If I give you a hundred bucks do you think you could at least buy a clue? |
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accounting
join:2008-02-29
Columbus, OH | reply to PthirusPubis
Sounds like you don't know much about radio spectrum, ham radio, or taxpayer money. You have some learning to do! |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD | the FCC sez
technical facts?
we don need no stinkin' technical facts! |
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nokiatech
join:2000-10-18
Stuart, FL | I for one love having the hams around during hurricanes.
They bring me sandwiches. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to jacour
Re: Don't Hold Your Breath
said by jacour :The result is not so dismal. The court has the right to rule that the FCC's action is arbitrary and capricious, but they can only rule on what is in the record. Since the record does not contain the redacted technical studies, the ARRL could not make that assertion and the court could not raise the issue sua sponte based on their in camera review of the documents. Now the case gets remanded and that is where the fun will begin. I don't think BPL is going anywhere, and the push from the FCC to foster it is quickly evaporating. Somehow I doubt that the issue of BPL will need to come up in the courts again.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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clickie
join:2005-05-22
Monroe, MI
| reply to PthirusPubis
Re: Enough already!
While I agree that amateur radio has long outlived its "public service" moniker, the truth of the matter is that amateurs use spectrum that is either far too long in wavelength for your intended purpose, or have such tiny slivers of desired wavelengths that they're worthless for your intended purpose.
Who wants wireless internet access when the antenna is 90' long or the throughput is about the same as ISDN; when only one person is using the system!
As far as BPL is concerned, it's a non-starter. It is at best a white elephant intended to garner investment to build out networks on someone else's dollar so the utilities can have what they've always wanted -- the ability to bill consumers spot market rates for the electricity they consume. |
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n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
2 edits | reply to PthirusPubis
said by PthirusPubis :
The hams have had exclusive use of us taxpayers radio spectrum long enough. Sorry to burst your bubble but with the exception of the 60m band, the Amateur Radio spectrum you are referring to DOES NOT belong to the U.S. taxpayers (in the case of 60m, it is the United States government's frequencies under the auspices of the NTIA). Amateur Radio spectrum is allocated by the International Telecommunication Union (»www.itu.int/net/home/index.aspx) for exclusive use by Amateur Radio Operators and the exclusivity is enforced by treaty. Of course the United States has shown its willingness to disregard established treaties it no longer likes but so far it is honoring its radio treaties.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. |
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a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
·Cingular Wireless
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to nokiatech
Re: I for one love having the hams around during hurricanes.
What're the distance limits of BPL anyway, and what changes are required to enable BPL on a power network? Honestly, if the cost is high enough, might as well buy up spectrum for WiMax, or try FTTN deployment. BPL not only interferes with ham radio, but a host of other unlicensed consumer devices. IMHO, it's just an overhyped technology that, so far, has shown nothing but epic failures in its limited deployment. I mean, it's OK for in-home ethernet bridging, but, over miles of high-voltage cabling and substations? I don't think so.. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
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| reply to Tzale
Re: Great!
Quick question: Could BPL be an option for buried power lines? It would seem to be if they are buried the interference issue would be moot?
Granted, most lines aren't buried, and the main idea of BPL was to serve un-served or under-served areas like Rural areas, where the powerlines certainly ARE not buried....
But in towns and cities, there's a lot of buried power these days. Maybe this could work kinda like a RT type deployment to such areas.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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james
join:2001-02-26
antarctica | reply to nokiatech
Re: I for one love having the hams around during hurricanes.
said by nokiatech :They bring me sandwiches. Ham sandwiches? |
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james
join:2001-02-26
antarctica
| reply to PthirusPubis
Re: Enough already!
said by PthirusPubis :
The hams have had exclusive use of us taxpayers radio spectrum long enough. Yeah, it belongs to tax payers because the radio spectrum was built with tax money, right? Oh wait, it wasn't.
said by PthirusPubis :
We should use the freq's for more practical things like delivering the Net using BPL.
There is NOTHING "practical" about BPL. You still have to run fiber out into the middle of nowhere, you might as well just finish the run and go right to the house.
said by PthirusPubis :
I rather see the spectrum used for home wireless devices
The frequencies that Ham users use were specifically chosen because they can go for super long distances. Can you imagine what a pain in the ass it will be when your xbox 360 is being turned on by someone on the other side of the city?
I'm not a Ham, so I'm sure they will be able to correct my limited knowledge on the subject. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
 ·magicjack.com
| reply to clickie
said by clickie :While I agree that amateur radio has long outlived its "public service" moniker, I agree.
Mark |
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KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
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join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
clubs:
·Cricket Broadband
 ·Verizon FIOS
2 edits | reply to PthirusPubis
said by PthirusPubis :
The hams have had exclusive use of us taxpayers radio spectrum long enough.
Uh, I pay a good share of Taxes myself, that would make ME a Taxpayer TOO.
Maybe the Government should put a Special Tax on Your Ignorance?? 
said by PthirusPubis :
Too bad for our little primadonnas but it's time to kick this small group of habitual complainers off the spectrum playground. Next time there is some sort of Disaster, be it Natural or Man made, please don't come crying to me that the phone lines are down, and the only thing your Cellphone can do is Display 'No Service' and play some Primitive Video Games like Pong until the battery goes dead.
Maybe if your Cellphone has a Camera Built-In, you could take some pictures of your miserable situation as well, but because your Phone has No Service, don't plan on sending them to anyone.
If you want to make a case that you are Immune to any type of Disaster Happening to You, then tell me that Category 5 Hurricanes Don't make Landfall, Earthquake's and Tornadoes are a myth, and that Terrorists don't Fly Airplanes into Buildings.
That list could go on and on, with Blizzards, Widespread Power Outages, ect....
said by PthirusPubis :
We should use the freq's for more practical things like delivering the Net using BPL. Sheesh, I rather see the spectrum used for home wireless devices. When the power lines fail, so would your precious BPL.
Sorry, your BPL is SOL ... --- .-..
As for home wireless devices, that is what ISM bands are used for, things like WiFi and Bluetooth come to mind.
If you want your Wii remote to turn on the Coffee Maker in the Morning, or Flush Your Toilet for you, go talk to the engineers that design these types of devices.
Rest assured that there are plenty of Public Unlicensed radio bands available to furnish you with Internet service and to Automate your S#itter 
In the end, when Disaster strikes, I'll have a working line of Radio Communication, an ample amount of supplies, and a Semi-Automatic rifle to make sure that that line of Radio Communication isn't disrupted.
Enjoy waiting in long lines for some Bottled Water, and a few cans of Spam to hold you over for the next few weeks.
Maybe you could barter your BPL modem for Shelter, that would be about fair, trade your BPL modem for a seat at the Superdome 
Gotta love these completely "Off The Wall" ANON posters, always good for a nice laugh.
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"Lithium is no longer available on credit" |
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