espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
 ·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
 ·Comcast
 ·Embarq
| Shocking...
Another muni-broadband project coming in over budget with subscription rates that don't meet the requirements to keep the service sustainable.
Telcos and MSOs will chase any opportunity to make a profit; when they run the numbers and decide that it's not viable for them to build out fiber in your town, chances are a government project isn't going to do much better. |
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Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
1 edit | Comcast/ATT wins...
I have a friend who lives in that area, and both Comcast and AT&T went promo happy with the specific intent on killing off the municipal broadband.
Plus if you did sign up for 50mbps through a partner ISP, you can't do anything useful with it. Sorry no BT. |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| The chickens have come home to roost.....
There is no such thing as a free ride, and this just proves it. People on these forums have be touting the Utopia network as the model "we" should pay to have rolled out nationwide. Thankfully, this failure occurred on a relatively small, local level. Imagine what would happen to the (economy, security, prosperity, etc.) of this country if this meltdown was happening from coast to coast! Yes, letting businesses handle business tends to be the only way to get things done.
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IdontKENNIT
@pacbell.net
| I just don't understand why...
the third party ISP's that's piggy backing the Utopia network don't come to terms to help pay for the fiber layout. If Utopia ceases to exist, don't they know the regional monopolies will win? Look what's happening with all those third party DSL ISP's. Before in the dot com days there were many, now it's all heading to just one per neighborhood - the baby Bells. |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| missed opportunity or lost cause?
although some smaller municipal fiber deployments have been successful, it's harder to tell if the larger ones are beyond the capabilities of the local govts or if the games of the incumbents have taken their toll.
I don't believe there has been a single, major municipal fiber deployment that hasn't be fought tooth and nail by the incumbent. That city in Louisiana, has been harassed and sued for over a year by the incumbent (or a local citizen apparently backed by the incumbent), so that deployment was delayed a year or more because of incumbent resistance.
unfortunately, even if the incumbents don't think your business is profitable and refuse to serve you, they mobilize at the first sign of potential competition and do their best thru FUD in the press and mailings and in law suits, if necessary, to stop it. They may not want your business now, but if they might want it in the future, they don't want competition - they will give you the service they want to give you on the their schedule. If you don't like it and try to do something about it, they attack.
broadband in this county is not an open business - it belongs to the incumbents and nobody else is allowed to play if they can stop it. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to wifi4milez
Re: The chickens have come home to roost.....
said by wifi4milez  :There is no such thing as a free ride, and this just proves it. People on these forums have be touting the Utopia network as the model "we" should pay to have rolled out nationwide. Thankfully, this failure occurred on a relatively small, local level. Imagine what would happen to the (economy, security, prosperity, etc.) of this country if this meltdown was happening from coast to coast! Yes, letting businesses handle business tends to be the only way to get things done. Riiiight. So a national fiber to the home network can only be engineered successfully by a business?
Calling UTOPIA a failure is also a bit premature. UTOPIA is doing it right, they are just in what is a bit of a technology backwater area. Only 2 of the cities served by UTOPIA have a population over 100,000 and are vastly spread out.
The fact is, the UTOPIA model should be the Federal Government's broadband plan. Take the last mile out of the hands of the incumbents and let them compete on an even playing field. What you would see happen is the ILECs and MSOs would do exactly what they are doing to UTOPIA, price their competition out of business. Isn't that what the laws against monopolies were created to prevent in the first place? Hard to compete when your product is $49.99 and the competition will offer it for $19.99 ... then bury that it's only for 6 month or a year in the fine print.
Yeah, man, I can't image wasting 100 billion dollars or so on this ... all the jobs it would create, all the telecommuning that would be possible, thus reducing our dependence on oil. Wasting trillions of dollars attacking a country to secure their oil reserves sounds like a much better idea to me. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to espaeth
Re: Shocking...
Only because they are under nuclear attack from the Big Incumbents.... If they succeed in nuking Utopia from existence they will hold it up as the model nationwide that Muni broadband is a failure...
Plus, once it's gone, they'll go back to their regular ways....
This is just like the Communications Act of 1996. "Kill it before it grows."
It ought to be a crime.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
·Embarq
| reply to Matt
Re: The chickens have come home to roost.....
said by Matt :Riiiight. So a national fiber to the home network can only be engineered successfully by a business? If you want to compete on price, absolutely. It's the companies that can bundle multiple services to get the best bang-for-the-buck out of the access cabling that will drive the price of Internet access down. Trying to sell Internet access alone will never achieve the level off efficiency of those companies building multi-purpose networks where they can sell multiple services on the wire. |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to wifi4milez
be realistic: Utopia is failing in part because incumbents will do ANYTHING to kill off this model. it is a direct threat to their current business model.
we all know that if Utopia does fail, the steep AT&T and Comcast promotions will be a thing of the past in that area. |
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MrMoody
But the Grinch ... did Not.
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
·Embarq
·Skype
·magicjack.com
| reply to KrK
Re: Shocking...
said by KrK :It ought to be a crime. It is. It's called predatory pricing and violates antitrust laws that haven't been enforced in more than a token way in 20 years.
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The public is a poor business manager. |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| reply to Matt
Re: The chickens have come home to roost.....
said by Matt :Riiiight. So a national fiber to the home network can only be engineered successfully by a business? Given that all muni efforts (fiber, wireless, etc.) in the US have failed miserably, I would say yes. Furthermore, this is the biggest rollout yet and now they are asking for another $67 million from the taxpayers just to keep their doors open.
said by Matt :Calling UTOPIA a failure is also a bit premature. UTOPIA is doing it right, they are just in what is a bit of a technology backwater area. Only 2 of the cities served by UTOPIA have a population over 100,000 and are vastly spread out. Thats the thing though. Test markets are always small and easier to deploy, thats why they are test markets. If this cant succeed where it is now how on earth will it ever work in an urban environment??
said by Matt :The fact is, the UTOPIA model should be the Federal Government's broadband plan. Take the last mile out of the hands of the incumbents and let them compete on an even playing field. YIKES! So you think meeting just 60% of a deployment goal should be the model for a federal system?? Are you actually implying that a system with a dismal 17% customer acceptance rate should be rolled out nationwide?? You must have some unpublished figures you are reviewing, since nothing about this project has worked since day one.
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| reply to KrK
Re: Shocking...
said by KrK :Only because they are under nuclear attack from the Big Incumbents.... If they succeed in nuking Utopia from existence they will hold it up as the model nationwide that Muni broadband is a failure... Well, in this case I think its the taxpayers who are starting to push back. Remember, there were certain deployment goals that were not met and now they (Utopia) are asking for a lot more money. Thats the major issue with government deployments, when things go sour the citizens have to pony up more cash to fix it. Had this project been launched by a company, then you could bet the planning would have at least been better.
Dont get me wrong, I am all for as much competition as possible. There just comes a point when "I" no longer want to pay for the local government to flush my money down the toilet in order to get a fake competitive landscape. The good thing about private companies (as opposed to muni efforts) is that they are held accountable either by their shareholders or by their profit margins to get things done.
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to morbo
Re: The chickens have come home to roost.....
said by morbo :be realistic: Utopia is failing in part because incumbents will do ANYTHING to kill off this model. it is a direct threat to their current business model. Maybe UTOPIA and its ISPs should fight back. Charging each customer $1K upfront to connect isn't the way to compete with somebody who doesn't charge anything. Since some citizens in Utah have no problem floating bonds, why not pay more taxes so that they can provide free internet access via UTOPIA and ride Comcast and Qwest out of town? |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to IdontKENNIT
Re: I just don't understand why...
said by IdontKENNIT :
the third party ISP's that's piggy backing the Utopia network don't come to terms to help pay for the fiber layout. My guess is that if the ISPs wanted to pay for the infrastructure they would have done so in the first place. |
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to nasadude
Re: missed opportunity or lost cause?
said by nasadude :That city in Louisiana, has been harassed and sued for over a year by the incumbent (or a local citizen apparently backed by the incumbent), so that deployment was delayed a year or more because of incumbent resistance. Lafayette is next in the municipal ISP spotlight. If Lafayette rolls into problems similar to that of UTOPIA, you can bet it will become very challenging for municipalities to convince their citizens that paying higher taxes for a connection to the Internet is a good thing. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to KrK
Re: Shocking...
said by KrK :Only because they are under nuclear attack from the Big Incumbents.... But in this situation the incumbents have no real advantage over the socialist broadband program. Private companies have to pay taxes, abide by regulations and deal with all sorts of BS that a government operation is exempt from.
You would think that with the built in competitive advantages that socialist broadband has going for it, it would run circles around private companies, but once again, it continues to fail, and require more taxpayer money to bail out.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
| reply to wifi4milez
Re: The chickens have come home to roost.....
said by wifi4milez :Given that all muni efforts (fiber, wireless, etc.) in the US have failed miserably... That's your opinion and not a fact.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA * |
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| reply to wifi4milez
Re: Shocking...
You would still be paying as a public citizen if a local incumbant was doing the same thing. The difference is you would have no say as the people that you voted in to serve you would be serving their gravy train business associates and handing them incentives left and right to make it happen.
The concept of Utopia is certainly the way to go: 1 network that is wholesaled out to those that want to service the people. Not only should this be done in communities, it should be done in states and it should be done nationwide. There is absolutely no reason we need a "utility" as such being built by everyone that wants to serve the people. |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| reply to jhboricua
Re: The chickens have come home to roost.....
said by jhboricua :said by wifi4milez :Given that all muni efforts (fiber, wireless, etc.) in the US have failed miserably... That's your opinion and not a fact. Its not just my opinion, its also the prevailing message from DSLR (which is shocking). Just check all the news items from the past two years about how every muni effort has fallen flat on its face.
Now, if you happen to know of a municipal system which is actually up and running, I suggest you immediately email Karl as it will surely be front page news for weeks.
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