vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| I'd like to know
Of the 14 countries ahead of the US in broadband penetration, what is their total land size & population density versus the US? I'm not saying our policy isn't partially responsible, but I'd like to quantify the effect of policy by eliminating the obvious. |
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LastSurvivor
join:2008-01-02
Toledo, OH
| ----
Over the past year, the number of broadband subscribers in the OECD increased 24% from 178 million in June 2006 to 221 million in June 2007. This growth increased broadband penetration rates in the OECD from 15.1 in June 2006 to 18.8 subscriptions per 100 inhabitants one year later.
The main highlights for June 2007 are:
* Denmark, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Korea, Norway and Iceland lead the OECD in broadband penetration, each with over 29 subscribers per 100 inhabitants.
* The strongest per-capita subscriber growth over the year was in Ireland, Germany, Sweden, Australia, Norway, Denmark and Luxembourg. Each country added more than 5 subscribers per 100 inhabitants during the past year.
* Operators in several countries continue upgrading subscriber lines to fibre. Fibre-to-the-home (FTTH) and Fibre-to-the-building (FTTB) subscriptions now comprise 8% of all broadband connections in the OECD, up from 7% one year ago, and the percentage is growing. Fiber connections account for 36% of all broadband subscriptions in Japan, and 31% in Korea.
* The United States is the largest broadband market in the OECD with 66.2 million subscribers. US broadband subscribers now represent 30% of all broadband connections in the OECD.
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Check out this link »www.oecd.org/document/60/0,3343,···,00.html
It's based on Broadband subscribers per 100 inhabitants, by technology, June 2007, if you see that Denmark (ranked 1st) has only 1.866 mil subs. while US has 66.2 mil subscribers, but yet we are 15th because of total population. |
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satellite68
join:2007-04-11
Louisville, KY
| Map it
We can map roads, buildings, sidewalks, parcels of land, weather patterns, demographics, sewers, railroads, my old girlfriend's undies (kidding), but somehow we can't map broadband penetration?
ESRI has fantastic software that maps just about anything one can think of. (ArcMap). Can't broadband be one of the data layers?? |
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SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| said by satellite68  :ESRI has fantastic software that maps just about anything one can think of. (ArcMap). Can't broadband be one of the data layers?? What. And get an accurate overview of just how completely pathethic BB is in the U.S.? You must be joking. Accuracy means the obfuscation/lies/distortions of all the "studies" conducted by the FCC won't be so easily swallowed. |
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satellite68
join:2007-04-11
Louisville, KY
| said by SilverSurfer :said by satellite68 :ESRI has fantastic software that maps just about anything one can think of. (ArcMap). Can't broadband be one of the data layers?? What. And get an accurate overview of just how completely pathethic BB is in the U.S.? You must be joking. Accuracy means the obfuscation/lies/distortions of all the "studies" conducted by the FCC won't be so easily swallowed. My point exactly - if it's accurately reported, wouldn't the inaccuracies of the FCC come to light in demonstratively bad ways? |
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Surfinusa
Premium
join:2001-02-08
|  Now this is news to me???
"Government policy allows telecom lobbyists to write the nations telecom laws?"
Now what else is news?
Oil prices are not effected by Government, the Government can't do a thing, its possible to justify the gouging????
Now Lobbyists do lots of things and the fact everyone knows what they do is sell to the government or should I say pay off what they want the Gov to do.
And everyone is okay with that.
No one has done anything about it so far.
Government officials seem to like the extra perk in their pockets. |
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SlickEnW
Premium
join:2003-01-21
Seattle, WA
clubs: | I'm wondering..what can we do about this?
We've already realized that "Connected Nation" Isn't doing much, but if they are the government's go-to guys , how can that change?
Opinions, please! |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Get In Line
National Broadband Plan? Do we have a national plan for anything? When there's people going hungry, or not able to afford gasoline, or health coverage for their kids, or college tuition, or mortgage payments...broadband will have to wait its turn.
We do need a national plan...for a lot of things. But first we need to get rid of the morons that think the free market will take care of us all and realize that we, as a nation, need to make serious investments - if we are to catch up for decades of neglect - in national infrastructure, public services and things that benefit us all.
Clean public restrooms to education, highways, bridges, colleges, affordable housing, healthcare....and yes, even broadband so that we may compete better in a global economy based on information. Walmart and Halliburton won't give us any of those things, regardless of how many tax breaks we give them. It's time to make this country work for its citizens, not the corporations.
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»PropertyMaps.com - Real-time, map based, nationwide MLS property search! |
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Alakar
Facts do not cease to exist when ignored
join:2001-03-23
Milwaukee, WI
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| We see the problem here...
Look at most of the threads on this forum and you see a microcosm of the problem across the country. Arguments run like this:
Point
"OMG! Big corporations are nothing but EVIL!!! The do nothing right and I want my 100 TB connection for $5"
Counter-Point
"OMG! What are you a communist that wants the government to control everything? The free market is God and everything works better without any government interference. The free market is supporting $40 for a 5Mb line so it must be right."
A comprehensive broadband policy needs to be in the middle of these extremes. Companies deserve to make a profit. Government has roll in making broadband deployment benefit the country as a whole and not just serve the profits of companies rolling it out.
Until these goofy extremes stop dominating the debate, we won't see any real change.
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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom; it is the arguments of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt the Younger |
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nickstoy
join:2001-02-03
Notre-Dame-De-L'Ile-Perrot, QC
 ·Videotron
| said by Alakar :Point "OMG! Big corporations are nothing but EVIL!!! The do nothing right and I want my 100 TB connection for $5" Counter-Point "OMG! What are you a communist that wants the government to control everything? The free market is God and everything works better without any government interference. The free market is supporting $40 for a 5Mb line so it must be right." LOL |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| reply to vpoko
Re: I'd like to know
said by vpoko :Of the 14 countries ahead of the US in broadband penetration, what is their total land size & population density versus the US? I'm not saying our policy isn't partially responsible, but I'd like to quantify the effect of policy by eliminating the obvious. The OECD has already done studies that normalize for population density.
The result: there is little or no correlation between population density and broadband penetration rankings.
In other words, the cry "but we're so much bigger and spread out" is just another empty excuse for the sorry performance of the U.S. |
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bamabrad
join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL | ROI is the main thing...
In a capitalistic society-unless 'encouraged' by gov actions. |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| reply to kapil
Re: Get In Line
said by kapil :..Do we have a national plan for anything? ... I believe there are currently national plans for the following:
* drown govt in a bathtub by reducing/removing sources of govt revenue and outsourcing govt jobs to private industry
* loot the US treasury for the benefit of defense contractors and others friendly with the current administration
* destroy the govt safety net that helps the poor and others
* and finally, destroy the constitutional rights of US citizens
who says we don't have national plans? |
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idjk
@embarqhsd.net
| reply to satellite68
Re: Map it
It cost us 41 million to be told by the IRS that they were sending out rebate checks (like we didn't know) can you imagine what it would cost for a map like this , plus it would take 10 years and be no good by the time it came out.
And if there is a market for BB in backwater that will make money for someone or some company then it will get to backwater but not before the more profitable places have been used up.
I don't want the gov. getting into anything else -it always cost more and works less when they do! |
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
|  Educate Yourselves!!
The Government should do NOTHING. This is America, not fucking Europe. People need to learn about why the U.S. is considered a radically different country... We SHOULDN'T be giving out handouts to any company that promises broadband. I'd rather us eliminate all taxes and nanny state / welfare programs and get back to basic American Government duties.. Too bad this country is overran by neoconservative Republicans and Democrats.
-Tzale
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Neoconservatives (G.W.B) are not true conservatives. A conservative believes in defending the Constitution. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - RON PAUL 2008 »www.usconstitution.net/const.html
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| reply to nasadude
Re: I'd like to know
I'd like to see the results that say there's "there is little or no correlation between population density and broadband penetration rankings." Simply put, I don't believe it. Even if national broadband policy has the bigger impact, how is it possible that pop. density is irrelevant to broadband penetration? There's no way that the correlation is zero. |
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DMNTD
join:2002-10-19
usa
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to Tzale
Re: Educate Yourselves!!
said by Tzale :The Government should do NOTHING. This is America, not fucking Europe. People need to learn about why the U.S. is considered a radically different country... We SHOULDN'T be giving out handouts to any company that promises broadband. I'd rather us eliminate all taxes and nanny state / welfare programs and get back to basic American Government duties.. Too bad this country is overran by neoconservative Republicans and Democrats. -Tzale HERE! HERE! ITS OUR COOKIE JAR! We make the cookies, get out government! I believe Ron Paul has a "few" packets on this idea. |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to vpoko
Re: I'd like to know
I might have exaggerated when I said "no correlation", but here is the data:
»www.oecd.org/sti/ict/broadband
data released June '07; go to item 3a for the spreadsheet.
a correlation of 0.24 is pretty low; in addition, note that there are 6 countries ahead of the U.S. with lower pop density, in some cases, much lower (US = 32, Canada =3.3)
penetration per 100 inhabitants/Pop. density
Denmark 34.3 /126.1
Netherlands 33.5 /400.5
Switzerland 30.7 /183.0
Korea 29.9 /484.9
Norway 29.8 /14.4
Iceland 29.8 /3.0
Finland 28.8 /15.6
Sweden 28.6 /20.2
Canada 25.0 /3.3
Belgium 23.8 /345.8
United Kingdom 23.7 /247.3
Australia 22.7 /2.7
France 22.5 /115.1
Luxembourg 22.2 /181.8
United States 22.1 /32.0
Japan 21.3 /338.2
Germany 21.2 /230.8
Austria 18.6 /98.7
Correlation: 0.24 |
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Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
·Comcast
·Embarq
1 edit | One way to provide rural broadband
 If one looks at the development of Telephone Service in the United States in the 1930s, one will find that the rural markets were serviced by independent telephone companies. Most independent telephone companies were financed through low interest Government subsidized Rural Electrification Loans. A typical Independent Telephone Company was a subscriber owned cooperative. Most Independent Telephone Companies provided 8 or 10 party basic service which was inconvenient but at least the subscribers had a telephone. The subscriber also had the choice of 4, 2 of Private Line Service with higher rates based on distance from the central office. It is time for the Government to set up Rural Broadband Service Loans. The loans would be provided to Independent ISP's operated by subscriber owned cooperatives. The only issue is network neutrality. Should the cost to subscribers be based on bandwidth or applications or a little of both? If one looks at the typical fiber CATV distribution network one will see that the cable is small and light. The Government should mandate that the local utilities offer the ISPs connection to poles at a reasonable rate. That way the ISP can install fiber anywhere there are power or telephone poles. I failed to mention that there were two revenue streams to independent telephone companies, subscribers fees and revenue from AT&T Long Lines, long distance service, in the form of Toll Separations. The same situation can be created for the ISP offering basic internet access. Additional revenue can be realized from service providers offering VoIP or TVoIP or other services for additional fees. Both the service provider and ISP would benefit. The ISP would receive additional revenue and an incentive to provide additional bandwidth on their distribution network. The service provider would save by not having to pay the cost of distribution and outside plant maintenance. |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| reply to nasadude
Re: I'd like to know
That's some pretty good data, certainly shows there are problems beyond population density. But I would say the data is still flawed. Countries like Canada and Australia have populated regions, and they have areas where nobody lives. In the US, on the other hand, most remote areas still have some population. In other words, there's a lot of dead mass. |
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