  Jodokast96Stupid people really piss me off.Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2 | Feel sorry for you guys You just got royally fucked. | |
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 | | |  Re: Feel sorry for you guys
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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| | Jodokast96Stupid people really piss me off.Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2 | Re: Feel sorry for you guys Which will most likely end up with the same decision. I hope not though. | |
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| | Reviews:
 ·Acanac
| said by fAcEtIOUs:No they weren't. All the CRTC did was refuse an injunction until the case could be heard. That is normal administrative procedure when irreparable harm is not proved. No no. We DID get screwed !
Hell, i cancelled my plans to hook up with TekSavvy due to the throttling as i'm sure MANY others did. This IS irreparable harm as there is no way in hell i'd subscribe to a gimped ISP no matter how good their support it.
Way to to CONSERVATIVE CRTC ! I know who i'll NOT vote for at the next election.
Adi | |
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| |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Well, if you go into the forums here, you will see a bunch of people who are being "harmed" and are as a result dumping their ISP's (Just like Bell intended, I'll bet)... | |
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| | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: Feel sorry for you guys Write letters to CRTC via snail mail. | |
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| | Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| I will repeat for Jodokast96:
they just got royally fvked | |
|
 sbrookPremium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:4
 ·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| This is a decision based on Case Law "This would appear to be only a denial of immediate relief based on proof of "irreparable harm" as defined by Canadian law. "
This should read as required by Canadian Case Law ... in other words in a prior judicial case for an injunction, a court asked for proof of irreparable harm. Because it's Case Law, it's neither defined nor binding on subsequent courts (or in this case a commission) to hold the participants to this standard. What has been missed in this case is the over-riding issue of consumer protection. | |
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 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 |  Proof?
Man, that decision is awful. They could have at least granted temporary relief while they decided. | |
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|  fcislerPremium
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY | Re: CRTC When "they" get fired, and they go looking to hire new IT staff - what are the chances that somehow Bell will have their hands in the picking of the IT staff?
If not, would it surprise you if their new IT staff were also awarded a "position" at Bell - with a nice fat check - for "no reason at all"?
Sometimes your best bet is to have the "higher up's" know nothing about IT, and just get a good lawyer. They can both speak the same "language" (business law) and not have to involve explaining "Ok...so the cable comes in, they have a monkey looking at the packets and picking some out? Bell paid for that monkey!" | |
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| | | | Re: CRTC you can't get fired from the government...
Worst that can happen is relocation to another branch. | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Your much better off in Canada with the CRTC than with the FCC in the USA. The FCC wouldn't dream of your "Wholesale DSL" in the USA. In the USA all competing DSL providers must install DSLAMs in COs, and provide their own backhaul. If your on a RT and out of range of the CO, tough luck. In Canada you have it the easy way, all the traffic is backhauled by BC to the ISP's POP and wherever you can get BC DSL you can get competitor DSL, regardless of RTs. | |
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 en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | I would have expected at least... That the CRTC would force Bell Canada to allow for unthrottled Indie ISPs running wholesale Bell Canada DSL.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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|  pfakBow before me for I am rootPremium
join:2002-12-29
Vancouver, BC | Re: I would have expected at least... I didn't expect anything better of the CRTC, they are a lame duck organization that is only run by corporate interests.
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Xenophase - British Columbia's premier online gaming community. | |
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| | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: I would have expected at least... said by pfak:I didn't expect anything better of the CRTC, they are a lame duck organization that is only run by corporate interests. So they model themselves after our FCC, then? | |
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| | | en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: I would have expected at least... Pretty much... paid for by big corp, and don't forget, the Torries are in power right now.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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| | | |  SnickerdoPremium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON | Re: I would have expected at least... said by en102:Pretty much... paid for by big corp, and don't forget, the Torries are in power right now. The Tories hate the CRTC. Maxime Brenier wanted nothing more to dismantle and disband the organization while he was Industry Minister.
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I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: I would have expected at least... What you can't kill, ASSIMILATE. This is what the CRTC is now : A conservative influenced organization that serves corporate interests first and consumers as an afterthought.
Adi | |
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| | | | | | en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: I would have expected at least... Just like the FCC... $$$$ = influence in government
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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| | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | said by KrK:said by pfak:I didn't expect anything better of the CRTC, they are a lame duck organization that is only run by corporate interests. So they model themselves after our FCC, then? No, the concept of Wholesale USA wouldn't be dreamed about the FCC. In USA each competitor must install their own DSLAMs, if your on DSL repeaters or RTs, tough luck. CRTC forces BC to open up their DSL network, not their copper as in the USA. | |
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| | | The current CRTC is under the CONSERVATIVE party influence : Corporations rule, consumers get screwed.
Sadly enough, It did not surprise me at all. :s
Adi | |
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| | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: I would have expected at least... said by adisor19:The current CRTC is under the CONSERVATIVE party influence : Corporations rule, consumers get screwed. This sounds strangely familiar... | |
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| | SnickerdoPremium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON | said by adisor19:The current CRTC is under the CONSERVATIVE party influence : Corporations rule, consumers get screwed. I highly recommend that you do some reading and check out the history between the CRTC and the current Conservative government in power before making such stupid and uneducated comments. The Tories hate the CRTC. Always have, always will.
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I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen. | |
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| | | | | Re: I would have expected at least... They might hate them but you can not tell me with a straight face they have NO influence on them.
Adi | |
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| | | | SnickerdoPremium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON | Re: I would have expected at least... said by adisor19:They might hate them but you can not tell me with a straight face they have NO influence on them. Dude, like I said, do some research before making comments about something you've demonstrated you know nothing about. What I can tell you with a very straight face is that with the current relationship between the CRTC and the Harper Government, the CRTC would do the total opposite of what the government wanted just to piss them off.
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I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen. | |
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| | | | | Reviews:
·Acanac
| Re: I would have expected at least... said by Snickerdo:said by adisor19:They might hate them but you can not tell me with a straight face they have NO influence on them. Dude, like I said, do some research before making comments about something you've demonstrated you know nothing about. What I can tell you with a very straight face is that with the current relationship between the CRTC and the Harper Government, the CRTC would do the total opposite of what the government wanted just to piss them off. And yet they didn't. They did EXACTLY what the Harper government wanted them to do : protect Bell. How do you explain that ?
Adi | |
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| | | | | | SnickerdoPremium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON | Re: I would have expected at least... said by adisor19:And yet they didn't. They did EXACTLY what the Harper government wanted them to do : protect Bell. How do you explain that ? Good bloody lord. 
Provide me one link, one document, one tiny bit of conjecture anywhere that says that the Harper Government wants to "protect" Bell. Just one is all I want, something reputable that isn't some blog written by someone the likes of you. You know, a news article or something along those lines. My bet is that you can't.
Hell, I can say that the CRTC ruled in favour of Bell just like Tim Buck wanted, but of course that is totally made up, just like what you said about Harper. I also doubt someone the likes of you even has a clue who Tim Buck was.
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I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen. | |
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| | | | | | | Reviews:
·Acanac
| Re: I would have expected at least... "Accused by NDP digital issues critic Charlie Angus of failing to understand the importance of maintaining a fair and neutral Net, Prentice yesterday avoided Angus’ questions about the government’s stance, “on practices employed by Canadian Internet service providers that restrict the flow of certain types of Internet data,” says the Globe & Mail."
»www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/···ogy/home
Nice try, but the Globe and Mail is not a pathetic blog as you claim. There is also a video on youtube where you can see Jim Prantice in all his Glory stating that he will not interfere.
Adi | |
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| | | | | | | | SnickerdoPremium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON | Re: I would have expected at least... Wow, you're out to lunch.
There is a huge difference between the Minister of Industry not wanting to get involved while a process is underway, and the libellous allegations you made about the Harper government somehow "paying off" the CRTC to find in favour of Bell. Sorry dude, but your "argument" is full of holes that it pretty much proves you haven't got a god damn clue on the whole matter.
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I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen. | |
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| | | | | | | | |  root9
join:2005-04-08
Kitchener, ON | Re: I would have expected at least... HAHAHA Snikerdo , it's all the same pack of rabid dogs called the government ... and we all know exactly where you stand by your signature. That is the real problem!
Disregard a tyrant totally, tyrant looses power, tyrant goes away. Gandhi principle 
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Please engage eyeballs and retain functional brain before operating fingers. | |
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| | | | | | | | | SnickerdoPremium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON | Re: I would have expected at least... said by root9:HAHAHA Snikerdo , it's all the same pack of rabid dogs called the government ... and we all know exactly where you stand by your signature. That is the real problem! You know absolutely nothing about where I stand or what my opinions are. That is your biggest problem.
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I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen. | |
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 insomxPremium
join:2003-01-26
Canada | Paid off I bet Bell paid them off, wouldn't surprise me one bit. | |
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| | | Re: Paid off Wouldn't surprise me either, fuck you Bell! | |
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| |
1 edit | Re: Paid off A sad day for Canadian consumers.
Even if you try to escape Bell, you still are forced into using a connection hampered due to their backwards thinking mentality. So much for progress. | |
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| | Just completely disgusting
We now need to ensure that CRTC is dismantled. We need something much more efficient.
Make sure you stay away from Bell and try to convince friends, family members, etc. to do the same.
Canada sucks big time. | |
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| |
| | |
| Reviews:
·Acanac
| Re: Just completely disgusting The CRTC is a CONSERVATIVE CRTC. In other words, its interests are NOT pro consumer but rather pro big corporations.
The only party that so far took the consumer side is the NDP. If you want the CRTC to change, change the party that controls it.
Good luck with that. We'll all need it.
Adi | |
|
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
| Lost a battle, not the war. I know that this is unfortunate that we have lost this battle - we will just have to fuel the war a bit more. When the case comes before the Commission, the CAIP et al. will have to deliver more proof. I am sure that between then, enough legal battles with batter Bell to death to bring forth some more evidence. | |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | It's not just P2P being throttled! ... According to user reports in the forums, any encrypted traffic of any kind is also throttled by default, since Bell assumes that encryption means P2P'ers...
This situation blows. | |
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| | | Re: It's not just P2P being throttled! I have no issues with my VPN, even after 5pm when my P2P slows down... Maybe I am just a freak exception? Weird...
As for the CRTC decision, they certainly did not have enough time to determine irreparable harm, nor make an informed decision. Expect this one to drag out like everything else involving the CRTC... | |
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| | Gogo1
join:2004-05-27
Brooklyn, NY | Re: It's not just P2P being throttled! said by Johnnycanuk :
I have no issues with my VPN, even after 5pm when my P2P slows down... Maybe I am just a freak exception? Weird...
As for the CRTC decision, they certainly did not have enough time to determine irreparable harm, nor make an informed decision. Expect this one to drag out like everything else involving the CRTC...
I had a quick skim of one of those threads. It seems other encrypted traffic is not throttled if it is on standard ports. However, if you are running P2P it is being claimed that all traffic of any kind is suffering. Try running some P2P while using VPN see if things degrade. | |
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| | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | I'm not in Canada, but I've been following the threads... it seems consistent the complaints, but it could be user perception, as well. | |
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| | | | Of course it will drag out since the CRTC is a Drag Queen for corporate interests.
The 3rd parties ISP must be royally pissed off now. No it's not over but it sure as hell ain't going in the right direction.
Screw Bell and screw the CRTC | |
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| Gogo1
join:2004-05-27
Brooklyn, NY | said by KrK:... According to user reports in the forums, any encrypted traffic of any kind is also throttled by default, since Bell assumes that encryption means P2P'ers... LOL wow that is truly ridiculous. | |
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KC
join:2006-11-08
Ottawa, ON | Suing ISP I hate to say it guys, I think it is time to sue the ISP for breach of contracts. And if they know what's good for them, they would settle out of court....
my 2 cents KC | |
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| | No suprise. When over half the crtc board is made up of bell guys and gals are we actually surprised by this.
Consumers now have little to no choice and its not getting any better any time soon. | |
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| | The sad part The sad part is that this will also be used as precedence, and it's guaranteed now that the boxes are there to stay!
That's my thought!
But CRTC "might" get Bell to comply with certain standards and not throttle at 30k.... One can hope that CRTC will rule against Bell's malpractice of trying to open up more traffic room for their IPTV services coming up... just so people can watch evening television while P2P is throttled... coincidence? I think not...
I hate Bell so much right now!
The higher ups are simply a bunch of business law degree grads that don't know anything about technology nor do anything with the web other than message through stupid blackberries and block the way when you try to get in or out an elevator.... thinking of ways to make more money without providing a positive experience.....
 | |
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 ztmikeMark for moderationPremium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN | Confused.. So Bell is the only one actually providing the bandwidth throughout Canada? lol
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdYueIC1pjM | |
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|  twizlarI dont think so.Premium
join:2003-12-24
Brantford, ON
kudos:3 | Re: Confused.. No, they control most of the last mile phone lines.
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Broadline Networks Inc. | |
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|  TLS2000Crazy CanuckPremium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON | In their territory they control all of the last mile phone lines.
Also in their territory, their only broadband competitors that own their own infrastructure also throttle connections to their customers and wholesale customers. | |
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 peter_mPremium
join:2005-07-13
Canada, QC |  Not good...
What do the lawyers of the independent ISPs say? | |
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|  ThalerPremium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Not good... said by peter_m:What do the lawyers of the independent ISPs say? Dear Bell,
We're not your friend Buddy!
...sorry, I had to say it. XD
Sucks about getting screwed there. Hopefully the escalation to the next step gets somewhere for resolution. | |
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| | Stick with the independant ISPs! Seriously! Why would people dump their independant ISPs when Bell is the company throttling the net? It's not the independant ISPs fault! Stick with them, support them through this ordeal!
As soon as I heard about this crap, I cancelled my Bell internet service and immediately went with Teksavvy. Even though they are currently being throttled, it is not their decision and they are fighting for our internet rights and Net Neutrality!
The way that I figure it, I am hurting Bell where it hurts; their pocketbook. Unfortunately, since most independant ISPs piggyback on Bell's network, they still get some of my money, but given the choice, I would rather Bell get 20% of my money rather than 100% of it. I'm supporting the independant ISPs by giving them my money (and time, once the rally comes around!). | |
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| Reviews:
·Acanac
| Re: Stick with the independant ISPs! said by Mephisto13 :
Seriously! Why would people dump their independant ISPs when Bell is the company throttling the net? It's not the independant ISPs fault! Stick with them, support them through this ordeal!
As soon as I heard about this crap, I cancelled my Bell internet service and immediately went with Teksavvy. Even though they are currently being throttled, it is not their decision and they are fighting for our internet rights and Net Neutrality!
The way that I figure it, I am hurting Bell where it hurts; their pocketbook. Unfortunately, since most independant ISPs piggyback on Bell's network, they still get some of my money, but given the choice, I would rather Bell get 20% of my money rather than 100% of it. I'm supporting the independant ISPs by giving them my money (and time, once the rally comes around!).
Huh, why would i pay for gimped internet access ? I rather leech from an open wifi access point than pay for throttled internet access. This is insane.
This is valid for any company out there : you want my money, offer me a service that is worth it. If they can't, too bad. They should sue whoever is giving them problems until they win their cause and then i'll consider them.
Adi | |
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| Jodokast96Stupid people really piss me off.Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2 | said by Mephisto13 :
Seriously! Why would people dump their independant ISPs when Bell is the company throttling the net? It's not the independant ISPs fault! Stick with them, support them through this ordeal!
As soon as I heard about this crap, I cancelled my Bell internet service and immediately went with Teksavvy. Even though they are currently being throttled, it is not their decision and they are fighting for our internet rights and Net Neutrality!
The way that I figure it, I am hurting Bell where it hurts; their pocketbook. Unfortunately, since most independant ISPs piggyback on Bell's network, they still get some of my money, but given the choice, I would rather Bell get 20% of my money rather than 100% of it. I'm supporting the independant ISPs by giving them my money (and time, once the rally comes around!).
I totally agree with what you are saying, but that's exactly the excuse the regulators gave for not doing anything. If you stick with the indies, they aren't losing money, which is what their whole arguement is based on. Whether their too dumb too see a few steps ahead or just getting their palms greased to look the other way, the regulators don't appear to be too interested in doing anything. | |
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 linicxCaveat EmptorPremium
join:2002-12-03
United State
·Cass Communicati..
·CenturyLink
| Bell? Bah! Fifty years ago Bell was an awesome phone service. Since its reassembled its self it is a miserable money hungry monopoly that cares less whether customers live or die. I dropped them four years ago and disconnected their test lines to the house. According to them I didn't exist. It was heaven.
When my husband dies, the first thing I'm going to do is dump the miserable excuse for a landline provider and go wireless without them. . They need me more than I need a another third-class muscle bound telco in my house and in my wallet.
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Mac: No windows, No gates, Apple inside | |
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| | done with Bell I'm a Canadian...and this is one more reason why I hate this country..If I could afford to leave I would ,but the taxes and every other fucking we get from our government stops me..I will now drop my bell phone service because of this...I dropped everything else due to the India connection ,and now I will delete their phone service...Bye Bell..how many more customers are u going to piss off and lose before u pull ur head out of ur ass? | |
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| | | Re: done with Bell said by TheWhitestar :
I'm a Canadian...and this is one more reason why I hate this country..If I could afford to leave I would ,but the taxes and every other fucking we get from our government stops me..I will now drop my bell phone service because of this...I dropped everything else due to the India connection ,and now I will delete their phone service...Bye Bell..how many more customers are u going to piss off and lose before u pull ur head out of ur ass?
I canceled all my Bell services last week, well I got disconnected because I went over their imaginary cap. But this cannot keep going I am sick of corporate greed, basically the internet here in Canada is a national domination. Obey your master!!!!! | |
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| | Canadian MAE time? Time for Canadian small-time ISPs to build their own peering points. | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: Canadian MAE time? Useless. Won't help at all. Last mile is the problem, not IP Transit. | |
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| |  GKC
join:2008-03-07
Toronto, ON | Those were the days, we thought they'd never end... In essence what the CRTC is saying, is that, Wholesaler's like TekSavvy need to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they will and have experienced a lose of revenue and customer's due to Bell Canada's throttling/traffic-shaping; point-in-case. And unless wholesaler's can prove they are experiencing a lose of revenue and customer's it won't even hold up in a court-of-law. So you can kiss good-bye to the protest scheduled for May 27th on Parliament Hill. It's obvious the CRTC is on the side of Bell Canada. And nothing already said or attempts to try to prove otherwise will make a difference where the CRTC is concerned. Bell Canada knew exactly what they were doing when they implemented their throttling practices March 14th, 2008.
It's a tragedy of profound proportions, but under these circumstances, we'll all have to live with being throttled. Even the Government officials won't step in and do anything. This saying holds truth and bears repeating 'Talk is cheap until action is behind your words.' Leading up to this point-in-time, that's all it's been from Wholesaler's; talk of launching class-action lawsuit, talk of protest on Parliament Hill. There's been nothing beyond 'talk.
Men of principle stand up for what they believe in. They 'talk-the-talk, and walk-the-walk.' I've yet to see this happen. | |
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| | | | | Re: Those were the days, we thought they'd never end... "Men of principle stand up for what they believe in. They 'talk-the-talk, and walk-the-walk.' I've yet to see this happen."
Then, why should the demonstration be canceled?!
Even if the CRTC comes through for Bell, those that strongly disagree with that decision should still do everything in their power to lobby the Government and the CRTC.
I, for one, will not be silent in such a case.
To give up and "live with being throttled" would be a serious mistake that I think most will not make. | |
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| | That sucks for us I can't believe we got owned like that. | |
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| Reviews:
·Acanac
| Re: That sucks for us said by Jean_22:I can't believe we got owned like that. I can't believe we voted the conservatives in power in the first place. In a sad sad way, we deserve this.
Adi | |
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| | | | Re: That sucks for us said by adisor19:said by Jean_22:I can't believe we got owned like that. I can't believe we voted the conservatives in power in the first place. In a sad sad way, we deserve this. Adi I don't think the Liberals would have done more | |
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