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Opt inThey need to make this opt in so people would decide if this is really something they need. If it is, enough people will opt in.
Of course we all know this is just a load of crap and if this was opt in based there would be no NebuAD and the likes.
If you use Ad Muncher or Ad Blocker, do these ads get blocked too? | |
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Re: Opt inYes but the revenue stream wouldn't be anywere near forcing it on all their customers. Thats what this is all about, generating $$$ for a company that is sinking. | |
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| FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ 1 edit
1 recommendation |
to Anonymous88
said by Anonymous88:They need to make this opt in so people would decide if this is really something they need. If it is, enough people will opt in. Of course we all know this is just a load of crap and if this was opt in based there would be no NebuAD and the likes. If you use Ad Muncher or Ad Blocker, do these ads get blocked too? Two Congressmen agree with you: » 2 Congressmen THREATEN CharterEDIT: P.S.> ad blockers block these ads too. But they don't stop collection of your browsing habits. | |
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to Anonymous88
Ad blockers will block the ads but they won't stop Charter from sniffing your packets. Opting out won't stop the data collection. All opting out will do is stop Charter's ad swapping. | |
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Re: Opt inhey Charter can't sniff my packets!
I am not a Charter customer. | |
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| swhx7 Premium Member join:2006-07-23 Elbonia
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to Anonymous88
They will put something in the non-negotiable "Terms of service" saying that customers agree to it by using the service. Then they will have so-called "consent" to satisfy any law. Only the words change; the reality remains the same.
The only way an ISP can get away with this is by lack of competition in the local market - no other comparable broadband, or at most one other choice in the area (cable and telco).
Whenever someone says it should be left for the free market to resolve an issue to do with internet in USA, remember that when customers have to accept something they hate in order to get broadband internet, the market has already failed. The root of the problem is that the service providers own the "last mile" connections to the customers. Whenever such a "natural monopoly" is allowed to be in private hands, it must be heavily regulated for protection of the public. | |
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Charter executives are a pack of idiotsFor the years I worked for the company, this was the level of intelligence we experienced out of the high level execs. Those idiots would come in with a horrible idea, try to sugar coat it, and force it down the employee's and customer's throats. The idiot with the idea would implement it, get fired, and walk with millions in their little severence packages written into their contracts. It seems that the cycle continues over there. | |
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| CorydonCultivant son jardin Premium Member join:2008-02-18 Denver, CO |
Corydon
Premium Member
2008-May-16 2:55 pm
Re: Charter executives are a pack of idiotsHere's what I don't get. As discussion yesterday prompted me to go through Comcast's financials a bit more carefully to find out whether their web portal either turns a profit or is a drag on the bottom line (short answer: it's not entirely clear, but it probably turns a small profit). Link. I know Charter's in trouble and everything, but honestly, I can't see how pissing off all of their customers like this will make a big difference to the company's bottom line. If you're an MSO, the overwhelming majority of your income comes from the monthly charges for TV, Internet, and (now) VoIP. Ad revenue is like a little icing on the cake. I guess it's a sign of just how desperate they are that they'll leap at any opportunity to add a little to the bottom line, no matter how half-baked the idea is. | |
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| | openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2008-May-16 4:40 pm
Re: Charter executives are a pack of idiotssaid by Corydon:I guess it's a sign of just how desperate they are that they'll leap at any opportunity to add a little to the bottom line, no matter how half-baked the idea is. I wouldn't call the idea half-baked considering a majority of consumers don't understand or care what's going on. While Charter's financial situation isn't as strong as many other companies, I doubt they're doing this out of desperation. Obviously, everything is on the table that generates revenue, is within legal acceptability, and customers tolerate. I think you'll see many other ISPs begin similar practices. | |
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to Corydon
quote: I guess it's a sign of just how desperate they are that they'll leap at any opportunity to add a little to the bottom line, no matter how half-baked the idea is.
I'd bet that within two years, DNS Redirection ads and behavioral advertising are employed by every major ISP. | |
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| | | CorydonCultivant son jardin Premium Member join:2008-02-18 Denver, CO |
Corydon
Premium Member
2008-May-16 7:49 pm
Re: Charter executives are a pack of idiotsI guess it's just really galling to me that we're being sold down the river for something that in the grand scheme of things is not all that much of a moneymaker for these ISPs. | |
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Re: Charter executives are a pack of idiotsHonestly, all I care about is that it's made completely transparent to the user with a working way to opt-out if they're interested. | |
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| | | | | funchordsHello MVM join:2001-03-11 Yarmouth Port, MA |
Re: Charter executives are a pack of idiotssaid by Karl Bode:Honestly, all I care about is that it's made completely transparent to the user with a working way to opt-out if they're interested. I can't draw the line there, Karl. The ISP is given the trust of its subscribers. You do you banking there. You file your taxes there. You exchange email with your lawyer there. You search Google to figure out ways to hide the bodies. The Internet becomes quite a trivial invention indeed if you can't trust your service provider. Anything that puts the ISP at odds with that trust is a conflict of interest. | |
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caco Premium Member join:2005-03-10 Whittier, AK |
caco
Premium Member
2008-May-16 12:52 pm
Maybe?If this causes targeted ad to pop up by selling this information than I guess he could argue that it would speed up browsing if points you to something you are looking for. Might help 1 in 5000 subs more or less. Not a very strong argument though. They should have just said, we are selling your information to bring down our outlandish debt. | |
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Alphy join:2001-12-31 Troy, MI |
Alphy
Member
2008-May-16 12:53 pm
Almost done with BBREvery day, another depressing story. I think I might give up reading BBR/spend less time on the internet. I went to the library today and picked this up. Seems to be a good read so far » www.amazon.com/Corporate ··· 7&sr=8-1 | |
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| morboComplete Your Transaction join:2002-01-22 00000 |
morbo
Member
2008-May-16 12:55 pm
Re: Almost done with BBRhow about taking some action instead? | |
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| | Alphy join:2001-12-31 Troy, MI |
Alphy
Member
2008-May-16 1:00 pm
Re: Almost done with BBRWhat course of action do you think needs to occur in order for the industry to complete relent on practices such as this/DRM | |
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| | | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ 2 edits |
FFH5
Premium Member
2008-May-16 1:11 pm
2 Congressmen THREATEN Chartersaid by Alphy:What course of action do you think needs to occur in order for the industry to complete relent on practices such as this/DRM 2 Congressmen have an idea. They have threatened Charter: » www.news.com/8301-13578_ ··· 1_3-0-20Two prominent members of the U.S. Congress are asking Charter Communications to hold off on its plan to monitor its customers' Web browsing and deliver relevant advertisements.
In a letter to Charter chief executive Neil Smit, Reps. Ed Markey and Joe Barton say the monitoring plan may violate federal privacy laws and ask that the company "not move forward" until "we have an opportunity to discuss" it. Markey is the Democratic chairman of a House Internet subcommittee and Barton is the senior Republican on the House Energy and Commerce committee.
Charter did not immediately respond on Friday to our questions about whether it would delay its monitoring-and-advertising plans as a result of the letter. Although Markey and Barton have no legal authority to order a halt, they could make life difficult for Charter by convening hearings and lambasting the company for alleged privacy violations.
In other words, they argue that an opt-in mechanism is necessary instead of an opt-out one.
That section of federal law, 47 USC 551, says: "A cable operator shall not use the cable system to collect personally identifiable information concerning any subscriber without the prior written or electronic consent of the subscriber concerned." Charter has sent notices to customers who may be affected once the trial period begins, but a mere notification (that may never be seen) may not amount to actual consent. | |
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| JahntassaWhat, I can have feathers Premium Member join:2006-04-14 Conway, SC |
to Alphy
This just in! Nothing new.NP - The latest news has arrived! Everything is going great in the world, and little Annie Miller just got her new puppy. The family was very excited for her.
"We're just thrilled for Annie, she always wanted a puppy," says Mother Deborah. Sorry, just trying to give you something non-depressing. | |
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| Jameson Premium Member join:2004-05-28 united state |
to Alphy
said by Alphy:Every day, another depressing story. I think I might give up reading BBR/spend less time on the internet. I went to the library today and picked this up. Seems to be a good read so far » www.amazon.com/Corporate ··· 7&sr=8-1 Bye. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. | |
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| | | Jameson Premium Member join:2004-05-28 united state |
Jameson
Premium Member
2008-May-16 3:46 pm
Re: Almost done with BBRDon't worry, I will. | |
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They'll need to modify Hijack This...To show "You are a Charter Internet Customer" on the first line. Everything after that is irrelevant. Cleanup procedure is a pain in the ass too. | |
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BabyBearKeep wise ...with Nite-Owl join:2007-01-11 |
Kudos!Wow, Ted Schremp has some 'mad' typing skills to be able to see what he's typing while having his head so far up his ass! Anything to make a buck eh, Ted? | |
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Cynic Detector is Going Off.....beep beep beepDoes anyone else find the cynicism here on BBR as humorous as I do? Its quite understandable, but funny as hell sometimes. | |
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Proof? Surveys? Talking out of ass?I'd like to see the results of the independent surveys that were done showing how much the customers really want this "feature". | |
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FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2008-May-16 1:23 pm
Schremp blowing smoke; he should have said thisWhen asked why consumers don't see lower prices if their browsing history is generating additional revenue, Schremp had this to say:
(Customers) appreciate the notion that ads that are being served are attuned to their interests or potential interests. We view it the same way as offering faster Internet speeds. This is no different. It's about taking the latest technology and applying it as a way to be useful to our customers. What he should have said: "The ad revenue helps offset growing costs and subsequently keeps prices from rising faster than they normally would." And the idea that customers get money back from ad revenue is absurd on its face and only suggested by people who can't think clearly. | |
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| braynes Premium Member join:2005-03-14 Waterville, ME |
braynes
Premium Member
2008-May-16 1:56 pm
Re: Schremp blowing smoke; he should have said thisHello If some store says L.L. bean had someone follow you around in the store and recorded everything you look at and then sell this to any and all comers to call, mail and email you, would you consider this right?
Why is this a way to offset growing costs for who the stockholders, the asshole that came up with it? Bruce | |
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| | openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144
1 recommendation |
openbox9
Premium Member
2008-May-16 2:04 pm
Re: Schremp blowing smoke; he should have said thissaid by braynes:Why is this a way to offset growing costs for who the stockholders, the asshole that came up with it? Offsetting growing costs is a good thing and helps minimize service cost increases. Stockholders don't really care either way as long as the bottom line continues to grow at a decent rate. The "asshole" that came up with the idea will most likely receive a decent bonus if enough revenue is generated. Sounds like a win all around except for the few people that are whining about their "privacy" being invaded. | |
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| | | funchordsHello MVM join:2001-03-11 Yarmouth Port, MA |
Re: Schremp blowing smoke; he should have said thissaid by openbox9:Sounds like a win all around except for the few people that are whining about their "privacy" being invaded. ...he said, posting under a psuedonym... | |
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| | | | openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 1 edit |
openbox9
Premium Member
2008-May-16 2:44 pm
Re: Schremp blowing smoke; he should have said thisMy name is Dave. Have fun.
Edit: I'll even complete that with my last name....Emery. Have fun again. | |
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| | | | | funchordsHello MVM join:2001-03-11 Yarmouth Port, MA |
Re: Schremp blowing smoke; he should have said thissaid by openbox9:My name is Dave. Have fun. Edit: I'll even complete that with my last name....Emery. Have fun again. +5 for being a good sport! | |
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NOCManMadMacHatter Premium Member join:2004-09-30 Colorado Springs, CO
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NOCMan
Premium Member
2008-May-16 1:38 pm
Theft of service and legitimate revenues for site operatorsThis is stealing revenue from legitimate website operators. Why are they allowed to overwrite ad's displayed from a site such as CNN or bloggers who display AdSense ad's to maintain some stream of revenue from their sites.
It is also a security issue. If they overwrite ad's that my bank displays through the SSL connection they could degrade the security of my bank connection or at least introduce SSL errors that will confuse normal people as to what's going on. Not to mention how do I know that these 3rd party companies are doing adequate monitoring of ad's inserted into webpages. I've seen plenty of companies who go home on the weekend and then people start injecting viruses and porn ad's into the ad streams and we could not get it fixed until Monday. We eventually dropped the company, but it's still an issue that website operators have to deal with.
Also there is no such thing as "anonymous" user data. If you look at it there's a time date stamp and a ip address. So now law enforcement will have more ways to track people down or worse homeland security will use it to monitor people.
If this becomes widespread some big website will notice their money drying up and will take these guys to court. It would be no different than putting up a billboard that blocked another billboard completely off from view. | |
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morboComplete Your Transaction join:2002-01-22 00000 |
morbo
Member
2008-May-16 2:29 pm
charter....ughsomeone please put charter out of its misery. | |
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AhhhhJust so we're clear: Charter is taking your browsing activity data and selling it to a third party for profit. They're then suggesting that doing so is an "enhanced online experience" (the phrase used in their e-mail to customers) on par with offering you faster connection speeds. Does insulting customer intelligence cost extra? Karl Karl Karl. I do enjoy reading your acerbic wit. | |
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Pollute their browsing-history databaseWe have to be realistic about attacking this practice. - Some ISPs are sleazy, and will do this as long as there's someone willing to pay for them to do it - The people doing the paying will only do so as long as they get information that's financially useful to them - The best angle of attack is to pollute the browsing-history databases to the point of uselessness, so that nobody is willing to pay for the info. » www.antiphorm.com/page_s ··· ware.htm has a pseudo browser to browse sites in the background that you wouldn't normally bother with. E.g. while you're out walking the dog, have it browse the web for cat food and wheelchair supplies. Currently only available for Windows, but they are working on Mac, Linux, and Mobile versions. | |
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Who is going to protect the children Before gathering data from a person, it is the responsibility of the ISP to determine if the person that they are gathering information from is over 13 years of age. How do the ISP's intend to do that. Furthermore when multiple users connect to the internet via a shared broadband connection how will the organization sharing up the ad's know they are directing the ad to the correct person. | |
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| funchordsHello MVM join:2001-03-11 Yarmouth Port, MA 1 edit |
Re: Who is going to protect the childrensaid by Mr Matt: Before gathering data from a person, it is the responsibility of the ISP to determine if the person that they are gathering information from is over 13 years of age. You're speaking of COPPA and it only applies to Personally identifiable information (PII). The hostnames of the websites you visit aren't PII, however some websites display PII and some HTML forms use the "GET" method which embeds the answers to form inputs into the URL. While such collection might be innocent and incidental, it would be collection of PII none-the-less. Interesting thought! said by Mr Matt:Furthermore when multiple users connect to the internet via a shared broadband connection how will the organization sharing up the ad's know they are directing the ad to the correct person. They wouldn't know if it was Dad, Mom, or Preteen at the keyboard -- but this problem is no different than currently exists with today's ad systems. I think services like DoubleClick face both of the above problems, so I'm not sure either problem you mention makes a precedent. The first one is by far the most interesting possibility. | |
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DryvlyneFar Beyond Driven Premium Member join:2004-08-30 Newark, OH |
Dryvlyne
Premium Member
2008-May-16 9:38 pm
Will someone plz sue them!It's crap like this that reinforces my belief that some day the Internet will split with one being run solely by corporate interests and another being run "underground" by so called hackers.
As for this particular story, I'm begging someone here that has half a conscious, the money and the resources to sue the sh!t out Charter before this practice becomes commonplace. My ISP can kiss my a$$ if they think they can take my data, sell it for profit and then offer me nothing in return except "more attuned advertising". I'd rather stop using the Internet period before these damn corporate interests can shaft me even deeper than they already are. | |
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Massachusetts is Questioning it.... | |
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Core0000 Premium Member join:2008-05-04 Somerset, KY |
Core0000
Premium Member
2008-May-18 1:05 pm
Nani?..."Were selling your browsing activity, it's generating additional income for us, and btw even though we are not lowering prices, or offering better service, this helps you!" /sarcasm Right... I remember Charter when they were in my area.. they had horrible service... I now know why. Because with crazy thinking like the above "half quote" your not going to have good business sense. | |
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JesTX
Anon
2008-May-20 9:47 am
Why they call it an "enhanced service"They have to call it an "enhanced online experience" because the law mandates opt-in provisions for all programs merely intended to increase corporate revenue. As long as they can convince customers, the press, and lawmakers that an honest business enhancement is taking place, they do not have to obtain written or electronic signatures from their customers to wiretap them.
Anyone with a shred of technical knowledge knows that this program is more likely to negatively impact service and speeds than enhance anything, but if Charter can convince even a few of us otherwise, they'll have a platform of ignorance upon which to develop such illegal revenue-increasing programs, and all that's lost is the privacy of their entire subscriber base. | |
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