TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
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2 edits |  Esme Vos the typical liberal
Esme Vos: use government fiat to force private businesses to give away service for free. Maybe Vos should change her last name to Lenin or Marx.
»www.muniwireless.com/2008/05/17/···asy-way/
San Francisco could have required cafes to install Wi-Fi networks and also required them to offer Wi-Fi service free of charge to the public. Then, companies such as FON, could have offered these free (or cheap) FON access points. Hey Esme, why not force them to give out free coffee & danishes while your at it.
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
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| Re: Esme Vos the typical liberal fascist
said by TKJunkMail  :Esme Vos: use government fiat to force private businesses to give away service for free. Maybe Vos should change her last name to Lenin or Marx. I like how she is touted as an "expert" in a racket that has proved to be a complete and total failure every time it has been tried.
quote:
Municipal wireless expert Esme Vos ...
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
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| said by pnh102 :said by TKJunkMail :Esme Vos: use government fiat to force private businesses to give away service for free. Maybe Vos should change her last name to Lenin or Marx. I like how she is touted as an "expert" in a racket that has proved to be a complete and total failure every time it has been tried. quote:
Municipal wireless expert Esme Vos ...
Bio:
»www.ewh.ieee.org/r6/san_francisc···/Vos.htm
A lawyer!! Yuck!
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
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| What the hell is IEEE doing wasting space like this on someone who isn't an engineer?!
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
2 edits | reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :said by pnh102 :said by TKJunkMail :Esme Vos: use government fiat to force private businesses to give away service for free. Maybe Vos should change her last name to Lenin or Marx. I like how she is touted as an "expert" in a racket that has proved to be a complete and total failure every time it has been tried. quote:
Municipal wireless expert Esme Vos ...
Bio: » www.ewh.ieee.org/r6/san_francisc···/Vos.htmA lawyer!! Yuck! Now my question is, who is paying her to lobby "forced free wifi from coffeeshops by govt"? ATT/Comcast wanting coffeeshops to sign up for business DSL/business cable (not the SLA plans, just the, its $20 more a month b/c your address is blacklisted as business). |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| just in time building
Perhaps the solution to Muni wifi is to build out the network only when you have users who sign 1 year contracts for home service. Build it in small chunks (just in time construction), start at govt buildings (to ease the politicians), parks, main shopping blvds, don't build out residential areas unless you have someone with a 1 year contract who is going to use the APs/repeaters. No point of bringing wifi to rich areas where everyone already has cable/dsl and doesn't care about cost, and bringing it to ghetto areas without guaranteed customers. If nobody ever formally requests to have service in a particular block/chunk of buildings, why on earth put it in there? If you need total 100% coverage, and you are so nomadic, get a cellphone data card. Don't rely on wifi. You must be nuts. |
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truocchio
join:2004-07-05
Miami Beach, FL | unfortunately this is not how network deployment or service providing businesses operate. It sounds like a great theory but will not work in practice. No one (very few) will sign a 1 year contract for a service that is not proven to be reliable. |
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truocchio
join:2004-07-05
Miami Beach, FL
| reply to pnh102
Re: Esme Vos the typical liberal fascist
Yeah, I have been digging at her at her site for a while now. She just spouts off these crazy ideas of how everyone should contribute to free wi-fi and then when the ideas blow up in her face she points to Singapore of South korea and says why cant america get it right... I think she made out well with adsense and adverts from vendors so I cant knock her hussle but she is DEFIANTLY not an expert. |
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viperm
Carpe Diem
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join:2002-07-09
Winchester, CA
| reply to truocchio
Re: just in time building
Unless they have some sort of special cagreement with AT&T, verizon etc their TOS does not allow them to resell or share their DSL connection.
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to truocchio
said by truocchio : No one (very few) will sign a 1 year contract for a service that is not proven to be reliable. Um, being reliable at home is kinnda obvious, it would be guarenteed in the contract, same as cell service. Its 3-5 repeater nodes and 1 AP with Moto Canopy backhaul per customer (Earthlink's architecture AFAIK), and each time you get another, you build out another AP + 1 initial repeater branch, or add another repeater branch to an existing AP that was installed for someone else. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
1 edit | pole tax
I think the biggest problem with muni wifi is that cities expect them to return mega $s to the general fund.
Thats the reason why no other companies want to take over these networks and would rather see them abandoned or taken down and sold for parts. The pole costs are the mega suckers that make these networks unprofitable. City owns the poles, and if you say electric company or telco owns them, well, electric company doesn't own street lights. 
If cities waved the costs of the poles, these networks would be much more profitable. Its funny that they don't when the politicians all run with the "digital inclusion" flag, but won't cut any breaks to make this happen/lift a finger, I guess they see cutting the pole tax as "subsidizing", then what about all the other tax cuts for big business and big industry?
EDIT I was right. It is the pole tax. »breitbart.wordpress.com/2008/03/···a-bills/ |
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caffeinator
Coming soon to a cup near you..
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join:2005-01-16
Spokane, WA
 ·WebBand
| Old news..
Blah, we did it back in 2004. Made the news.
Ok, not the whole city, but over 100 square blocks of downtown have free WiFi.
»www.spokanehotzone.com/images/maplarge.gif
My friend from UK came here, and it even worked on his mobile just fine.
He got no less than four connections from my house..including the McDonalds across the street. 
Not counting the educational or medical markets, which are huge here.
I guess it helps that the one of the originators in Gig-E...Packet Engines, now part of Cisco, was based here. We have fiber as infrastructure everywhere. Some heavy hitters in Wireless too.
Not bad for a city of under 300,000.
»www.spokanehotzone.com/
If you don't like the Internet options where you live, don't live there IMHO.
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factchecker
@cox.net | reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Esme Vos the typical liberal
Look out, TK is trolling again with an excellent example of an appeal to mockery. |
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Nightshade
sic semper tyrannis
Premium
join:2002-05-26
Salem, OR | reply to pnh102
Re: Esme Vos the typical liberal fascist
Maybe she's an expert at failure |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
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| reply to factchecker
Re: Esme Vos the typical liberal
said by factchecker :Look out, TK is trolling again with an excellent example of an appeal to mockery. Why is it wrong to mock your opponent when she is so obviously wrong? Municipal wireless has failed everywhere it has been tried. It will fail in San Francisco too.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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factchecker
@bellsouth.net
| said by pnh102 :Why is it wrong to mock your opponent when she is so obviously wrong? Read the link and you will see why. If you want to discredit them, discredit them based on the merits of your own position or lack of merit in their own position, instead of resorting to second grade level insults... Of course it just dawned on me that this is the internet, where second grade level insults and mud slinging are considered serious debate.
Municipal wireless has failed everywhere it has been tried. Your statement false. It has not failed EVERYWHERE that it has been tried. The only reason you think that it has is because failures receive press while successful operations fly under the radar.
It will fail in San Francisco too. Which project ? There are several of them and some of them are alive and kicking. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
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| said by factchecker :
Read the link and you will see why. If you want to discredit them, discredit them based on the merits of your own position or lack of merit in their own position ... It has already been established that municipal wireless has failed. There's nothing wrong with mocking those who continue to preach a failed idea over and over again, because what they advocate is a failure, and their continuing to advocate it is just plain stupid.
said by factchecker :
Your statement false. It has not failed EVERYWHERE that it has been tried. And where has it worked?
said by factchecker :
Which project ? There are several of them and some of them are alive and kicking.
The only way I see a city-wide wifi deployment (or some other internet access) succeeding is if it is done by a private outfit. So many municipal projects have gone down in flames that local government simply should not take a chance with it. I am also certain that like other cities, there are more important problems which need to be dealt with instead of another pie-in-the-sky municipal internet project.
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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| reply to factchecker
said by factchecker :Look out, TK is trolling again with an excellent example of an appeal to mockery. Whose the troll who keeps posting without registering. Something to hide?
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tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
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| reply to patcat88
Re: pole tax
said by patcat88 :Thats the reason why no other companies want to take over these networks and would rather see them abandoned or taken down and sold for parts. The pole costs are the mega suckers that make these networks unprofitable. City owns the poles, and if you say electric company or telco owns them, well, electric company doesn't own street lights. If cities waved the costs of the poles, In many places the power company does own the pole (even if it is a PUD or muni-owned electric company, legally seperate from the governing arm of the city/county), and the lighting fixture and leases them to the city/county/citizen (who ultimately pays the bill).
regardless of who owns the pole, why should that entity provide free use to muni-broadband as compared to any other user?
the annual, "per attachment" fee helps pay a portion of the costs (RoW, capital cost of the pole, equipment, wiring, maintaince, , safety inspections, and insurance/liability) and assures timely replacement at EoL, and disposal of the used pole (wooden poles are hazardous waste, aluminum/steel poles likely have a recycle value, but a higher intial cost) |
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factchecker
@cox.net
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TKJunkMail
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Esme Vos the typical liberal
said by TKJunkMail :Whose the troll who keeps posting without registering. Something to hide? Nice strawman... The fact that you are registered doesn't increase or lend credence to your arguments, it just makes tracking your fallacious and error filled arguments easier to track. |
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