justbits
More fiber than ATT can handle
Premium
join:2003-01-08
Chicago, IL | "legal content"
How will they tell the difference between legal and illegal content? |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
|  Legal P2P will be fostered; illegal P2P will be punished
In short, Comcast customers who want to use P2P to trade copyrighted files are about to either become second class citizens, or find themselves booted from the Comcast network entirely. Copyright infringement should be booted from the network. And while many say ISPs should stay out of being copyright cops, it is the best place to put an end to that practice.
By fostering legal P2P products and services, Comcast will be able to optimize the network without suffering the bad effects of unbridled growth. And by charging more for those who fit the profile of the top .1% of bandwidth users, they can fund further expansion of network capacity.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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dcurrey
Premium
join:2004-06-29
 ·ViaTalk
2 edits | Why wouldn't they want heavy downloaders
If the put the 250g cap in place and people pay extra for the bandwidth why wouldn't they like p2p. Not like they are responsible for what people downloads so it would be more money for them.
It would actually be against there interest to try and limit p2p to legal downloads only. They are just doing this to look good. |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| It's a scam, not a solution
This would reduce traffic across the border routers only if all the p2p people switched to the p4p.
Here are some good reasons that won't happen:
1. The person on the other end of the connection, on some other ISP, has the file you want and is distributing it on something other than p4p.
2. Only files the p4p vendor approves of will be distributable on p4p; anything that doesn't meet their standards will be excluded, but may be available on p2p.
3. Are they going to charge for use of p4p? P2p is free.
4. For me to trust their client, they'll have to publish the source code on a licence that lets me change it and recompile if it doesn't conform to my security policy. But this won't happen - see #2 and #3.
5. Monitoring (spyware), advertising, DRM, other hassles or hazards?
If Comcast tries to pressure subscribers to use only p4p and abandon p2p, whether by rules or by technical interference, they'll be right back to traffic discrimination (violation of network neutrality). The claim that all p2p use is copyright infringement is demonstrably false and cannot provide any excuse for discrimination or for trying to change the applications customers use. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
1 edit |  Good questions
It's not hard to detect illegal traffic, even encrypted. The weakness is in the initial HTTP request for the torrent file ... and the fact that the provider can see WHAT SITE you requested the torrent from.
Downloading »www.leettorrentsite.com/air-supp···.torrent is pretty damn obvious.
This becomes even easier if they "whitelist" certain bittorrent providers ... I think this asks the bigger question, what will the tax to be whitelisted be?
I think the best way to do this is to not degrade any traffic, but start an independent coalition who tracks central illegal file sharing that all providers subscribe to. If they can do it now with web content filters, they can do it with bittorrent sites. Hell, the system can even feed the list of torrent sites to a human to analyse easily. If the site is password protected and refuses to provide the organization with a login to view the content, you automatically make the blacklist.
I find it interesting that Comcast has all but admitted they are not concerned with limiting traffic at the node, but instead are basically admitting they are trying to decrease their peering costs. |
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digitalfreak
join:2005-12-09
49533
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Legal P2P will be fostered; illegal P2P will be punished
said by TKJunkMail  :And by charging more for those who fit the profile of the top .1% of bandwidth users, they can fund further expansion of network capacity. LOL. They don't want to expand network capacity. They want folks to pay more for less. |
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ib50MbSoon
Formerly TwoKDialup
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI
1 edit | No worries...
...thieves will still have choices. If they don't want to pay for an albumn/movie/software, they can go down to their local ChinaMart and rip it off.
Make no mistake, I'm not an advocate of shoplifting but at least the artist/author will still get paid for their hard work.
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Comcast has spoiled me rotten! |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Legal P2P will be fostered; illegal P2P will be punished
Why would they ever invest in network capacity?
The only time that happens is when there's competition in the local broadband market. And if there is one other provider, they'll invest just enough to equal or slightly exceed its offering, and not a cent more.
If there's no competition or only an oligopoly in the local market (the "last mile"), it will be more profitable for the ISP to charge more and more, make more restrictive policies, and never improve anything for the customers. In fact, they can and do spend money on preventing competition instead of improving the network. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| said by swhx7 :Why would they ever invest in network capacity? The only time that happens is when there's competition in the local broadband market. And if there is one other provider, they'll invest just enough to equal or slightly exceed its offering, and not a cent more. If you look at their qtrly and annual reports you would see they invest on average $1 billion a year in infrastructure. So all these claims that Comcast never invests are pure nonsense.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| reply to Matt
Re: Good questions
said by Matt :It's not hard to detect illegal traffic, even encrypted. Hahahahahahaha Hahahahahaha That's a good one. You must get a paycheck from an ISP. That's why there are so many false positives and Comcrap just throttles/blocks arbitrarily. |
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ztmike
Mark for moderation
Premium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN
·Comcast
| Hm
Last I heard there was a study..and out of that people who download music and ect. usually end up BUYING the product in stores.
BUT with the crap economy and high gas prices and food prices, peoples wallets are seriously running thin, and torrents is really the only way they can still get what they want.
I'm in this boat, and I can't go out and spend $20 at the movies, the money just ain't there for me.
Times are hard, maybe not for everyone, but the majority.
Call me a thief or whatever, but I'm afraid bills/food/gas/my home comes 1st and foremost.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdYueIC1pjM |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to swhx7
Re: Legal P2P will be fostered; illegal P2P will be punished
Nobody invests in capacity, unless they can make a profit on that investment.
Its more likely that you'll find the investment to be in managing the efficiency of the existing capacity.
This would almost go back to the days of having ISP run cached proxy servers.
I almost wonder if this p4p is an attempt at creating ISP based seed proxy servers for customers. It would cut down on bandwidth consumption, and sold p2p issues.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to SilverSurfer
Re: Good questions
said by SilverSurfer :said by Matt :It's not hard to detect illegal traffic, even encrypted. Hahahahahahaha Hahahahahaha That's a good one. You must get a paycheck from an ISP. That's why there are so many false positives and Comcrap just throttles/blocks arbitrarily. Matte is right and you are wrong. You don't have to see inside encrypted packets to know where they are going. You start up a blacklist/whitelist system and just don't allow people to get to unwanted torrent sites. And you can also block proxy servers for those who want to go that route.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to ib50MbSoon
Re: No worries...
It would be nice if music lovers could support their favorite artists. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.
said by ib50MbSoon :I'm not an advocate of shoplifting but at least the artist/author will still get paid for their hard work.
In most cases that's not true. Musicians on major labels, with a few rare exceptions, get a small royalty only after they're reimbursed the record company for all the costs of recording, promotion, and anything else the company has paid for or claims to have paid. If the artists are lucky enough to sell enough discs to pay off all of that, they start getting something like 15 cents out of a $15 CD sale (after offsets for promotional copies, etc.).
And if the artist wants an accounting he must pay for an accountant approved by the record company to do it.
The record companies never create any music or other art or culture. Their distribution and promotion services used to be valuable, but now can be handled better online. The role of the record companies now is only to suck all the value out of the music business, from customers on one side and artists on the other. They sooner they die off the better. And the collapse of CD sales is making it happen.
Music will go on without the Hollywood companies as soon as artists realize they can do better than selling out. |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Legal P2P will be fostered; illegal P2P will be punished
Those numbers include building out to new markets and maintaining existing infrastructure. How much of it is for increasing capacity? It doesn't make sense for any big ISP to improve the "last mile" (where all of the notorious congestion is) unless a competitor is drawing away customers. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :Copyright infringement should be booted from the network. And while many say ISPs should stay out of being copyright cops, it is the best place to put an end to that practice. So should infected systems the spew SPAM and DNS attacks.  |
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SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Good questions
said by TKJunkMail :Matte is right and you are wrong. Oh OK. And up is down and black is white. Because you and your golf buddies say so. |
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No to ESPN
@sbcglobal.net
| Cash Cow
Reality of the matter is that you cannot stop it so why not figure out a way of generating some cash. That is my take on this.
The current economy is making the generation of new sources of cash revenue a priority for the communication companies. The real question is which communication company will follow. |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to en102
Re: Legal P2P will be fostered; illegal P2P will be punished
said by en102 :Nobody invests in capacity, unless they can make a profit on that investment. Its more likely that you'll find the investment to be in managing the efficiency of the existing capacity.
That's just putting a nicer spin on "it will be more profitable for the ISP to charge more and more, make more restrictive policies, and never improve anything for the customers".
said by en102 :I almost wonder if this p4p is an attempt at creating ISP based seed proxy servers for customers. It would cut down on bandwidth consumption, and sold p2p issues.
They can't seed or cache anything from p2p without getting in legal trouble, because a lot of what's out there (and a lot of what's popular and would benefit from caching) is copyright-infringing. Even indiscriminate caching would get them sued, and if they did it selectively it wouldn't help much with the traffic problem.
Besides, it would amount to the same thing as collaborating with Pando/p4p companies. But that doesn't reduce their peering costs unless they discourage p2p (see my "it's a scam" post). |
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Mike_343
I Need Speed.
join:2001-07-05
Dyer, IN | reply to ztmike
Re: Hm
then don't watch movies. |
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