anony
@cox.net
| market seppuku?
Only if there is competition. Where I live the cable companies have divided the city. You are either in a Cox area or a Comcast. The only option you have if you want another provider is to move.
As long as monopolistic cable contracts are allowed by cities, you will never see competition. |
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odog
Cable Centric Vendor Biased
Premium
join:2001-08-05
Norcross, GA
clubs: | they aren't going after the legal stuff
by a large for every appleTV user or Hulu user.... you've probably got 100+ hardcore BT users eating 100+GB per month. |
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Phil
Rojo Sol
Premium
join:2001-06-11
Camarillo, CA
 ·Verizon FIOS
|  Right On!
I'm glad Karl Bode  has brought this to the front-page. These caps only serve to stifle competition as I've said HERE and HERE. If Time Warner had proposed something reasonable, similar to Comcast's cap of 250GB people wouldn't be making such a stink about it. |
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Julio
Bachatero y Que?
Premium
join:2003-03-19
Brooklyn, NY
clubs: | I'll drop TWC
the instant they do this in NYC. |
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iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
 ·Comcast
 ·Qwest.net
 ·magicjack.com
 ·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to odog
Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff
Maybe at this very minute you have two or three, not 100+, BT users for every Hulu viewer, but soon the ratio will be reversed. And actually video streaming isn't nearly as hard on the network as BitTorrent. So yes it's still anticompetitive, despite your antiquated notions of what people do online.
I've used BitTorrent for some stuff, like when Hulu doesn't have all the Episodes of 24 on their site. Of course, if everything was on Hulu I'd just use my internet connection to stream that way. Oh wait, that would mean racking up a ginormous bandwidth bill :/ |
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Phil
Rojo Sol
Premium
join:2001-06-11
Camarillo, CA
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | reply to odog
Only because these technologies are just emerging and with limited scope. As I've said elsewhere, if Netflix made their entire movie library available online I would stream ALL my movies versus getting the physical DVD via snail-mail. Time Warner's caps would not allow me this freedom. |
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fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
·Skype
| reply to Phil
Re: Right On!
said by Phil : If Time Warner had proposed something reasonable, similar to Comcast's cap of 250GB people wouldn't be making such a stink about it. Agreed, on the condition that they also include a clause that doesn't preclude the possibility of upping the cap as the internet matures. 250GB seems good now. In 10 years, it may not be. I would hope providers will recognize that.
--
Wishes: When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor. --despair.com |
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danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to odog
Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff..NO they aren't
said by odog :by a large for every appleTV user or Hulu user.... you've probably got 100+ hardcore BT users eating 100+GB per month. no they arent going after the illegal stuff thats a straw man arguement, a ruse, a ploy, an EXCUSE
ITS ALL ABOUT THE CONTENT and what they can charge for it. Since any number you hear about torrenting traffic is pulled at random from the air these caps are all about keeping video revenue local. Its about having you use their PPV or VOIP and not Apple or netflix or any other VOIP/Video provider.
Thats it. Period. Anything else is just hot air. |
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33591094
join:2002-11-19
Canada | Wow
What a bunch of Time Warner news lately....
What's up with that?  |
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K Patterson
Premium,MVM
join:2006-03-12
Columbus, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | There's more than transit
I agree that seven cents is a reasonable price to purchase transit, but there are other costs to maintain the bandwidth to the peering point.
The pricing model which electric companies use for commercial and industrial customers is a way this has traditionally been handled. The meter measures two things - demand and consumption. The demand is averaged over a 30 minute interval, and in Columbus is $6.80 per kilowatt The electricity used is billed at $.0936. As you become a larger customer, the demand charge goes up and the KWH charge goes down.
Maybe this is the model that cable companies should use. Actually, it kinda is. One could view the monthly fee as the demand charge, and the new fees as the KWH charge. That doesn't make the present number reasonable, however. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to odog
Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff
said by odog :by a large for every appleTV user or Hulu user.... you've probably got 100+ hardcore BT users eating 100+GB per month. They are using those users as an excuse to head off the exodus of users to services like the DirecTV Roku, Amazon Unbox, Hulu, Vongo, etc.
They don't want to hemorrhage subscribers like the Telco's did when VoIP blew up. If they learned anything from the decimation of the POTS industry and their subsequent domination of the VoIP industry, it was to nip potential problems to their core business in the bud. |
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gimme5
join:2002-12-23
Kissimmee, FL
| Way too low
Yes, those caps are way too low. Someone using 5 gigs a month is hardly hurting the network.
40 gigs is also too low. I don't download a lot of stuff, but the way the web is today, it does add up and I think I might be getting kinda close to that every month. I think, ultimately, if those caps went in effect at my provider, I'd have to switch to *gasp* Embarq DSL.
My guess is that it won't happen. They'll run their trial and will not implement the caps nationwide. At least not these caps. Perhaps fair caps, like what Comcast is doing. |
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banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
join:2001-08-18
Naples, FL
·Comcast
| I think this is why people in the U.S. fear usage caps...
While the concept of paying for what you use does make sense, I think people (in the U.S., at least) resist this model because they fear the ISPs will impose caps that are too low and overage charges that are inflated. And the limited competition in most markets means that if your ISP's charges are unreasonable, you may have no choice but to pay them, if you want or need broadband service -- that's why they're unreasonable in the first place, because you're stuck with them.
According to this, Time Warner isn't doing much to soothe those fears. In fact, they are just fueling them, setting caps that protect their own business interests first and foremost.
By contrast, Comcast's proposed 250GB usage cap is much more reasonable, and one I would not have any complaints about in the present environment.
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"I'll follow the law until it's just stupid." -Ted Nugent |
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fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
·Skype
| reply to Julio
Re: I'll drop TWC
Same in my area. My alternatives aren't as good as Fios but at least one alternative doesn't have such a ridiculously low cap.
Combine that with their recently implemented DNS re-direction, the fact that my speeds keep declining, their upload remains at a paltry 384 kb/s and it's really starting to p!ss me off. Don't even get me started on their draconian POP3 retrieval if you're off their network or the fact they still haven't gotten many their Adelphia "acquirees" integrated into their system so we'd at least have dial-up backup for broadband outages.
A money-grab low cap rollout and I'm walking too.
In retrospect, I'd rather have Adelphia back. . .
--
Wishes: When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor. --despair.com |
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JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL | T R I A L
5. a tentative or experimental action in order to ascertain results; experiment.
Wait until the trial is over before you go cuttting your wrists.
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»www.seabee.navy.mil |
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Dampier
Phillip M Dampier
join:2003-03-23
Rochester, NY
3 edits | Don't Fall for the Cable Industry's Invented Narrative
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1fCgca9ZNk
Once again, people writing on this issue should stop accepting the false premise that there is sufficient justification to impose usage caps, "reasonable" or not. The cable industry has hired lobbying firms, working with well-connected, biased public policy institutes and equipment manufacturers to create, advance and suggest panic about an impending bandwidth crisis in the United States.
It's a "crisis" not apparent to their competitors, which continue to deploy (at a faster rate than ever) profitable broadband platforms with an all-you-can-eat business model. Make no mistake, no publicly traded company would permit such an investment if there was a crisis as the cable industry would suggest.
When you argue on their playing field, it creates a de facto acceptance of the legitimacy of their argument, which is advanced with absolutely no independent verification (the data they use to build their narrative is conveniently unavailable to neutral analysts 'for competitive reasons.')
Time Warner's mobile broadband-like usage caps only illustrate a fumble in the public relations campaign underway to get consumers to accept capped usage without ANY corresponding decrease in the price they pay for access. Suggestions that cable may move to consumption-based pricing is just that, a pie in the sky suggestion. Behind the scenes, the entire pricing model of broadband by the cable industry depends on uniform pricing and they actually resist pay-per-byte pricing much the same way the cable industry resists a-la-carte video programming packages.
If one reads the trade magazines for this industry, they are signalling to the cable corporate heads that:
a) Bloggers are crazy people outraged and insane about the very concept of capped pricing. Multichannel News is using publicity stills of Jack Nicholson in The Shining on their site to depict angry bloggers.
b) Time Warner bungled the PR game in the effort to build a narrative to push capped usage on consumers and needs to better manage PR if they wish to be successful at convincing customers this is a good thing.
The evidence of the lobbying effort and getting consumers to support things against their own interests is in plain view when you read the trade press. Pitting customer against customer on some invented stereotype of a bandwidth hog picking other people's pockets (despite no promise to LOWER prices for anyone, cap or not) is part of the plan.
It's a real shame that those who have made their livelihood out of covering such things have apparently not come to understand the fundamentals of the cable industry and their history of involvement in public policy. The path to their high profits, partly enabled by their lobbying efforts, is a well-worn one, and they are following it yet again.
Construct a narrative.
Gain support for it by hiring lobbying firms to find "independent" analysts with ties to the industry to support the premise they raise.
Refuse to release raw data for independent verification for "competitive reasons."
Co-opt consumers into fighting against their own best interests by constructing fictional us vs. them arguments based on plausible stereotypes and making promises about reduced costs or better services without ever implementing them.
Seek media attention where reporters are willing to accept the premise of a cable-forwarded narrative and then rely on reporter laziness to simply grab response quotes from both sides without ever bothering to challenge the premise.
Appeal to lawmakers to address the narrative they have constructed with no corresponding regulation, or as a potential golden bonus, using public money to help build the necessary infrastructure to "relieve the crisis."
Advance the potential positive outcome of their public policy lobbying to shareholders to increase shareholder value.
Obtain the results desired and never implement promises made to consumers (or never market them) of cost savings that would supposedly result from victory.
It's the same story again and again. It has been since the 1980s when cable began building enormous clout on Capitol Hill. The only question is, when will people who claim knowledge of this industry demonstrate it by being willing to never accept a premise or narrative that is clearly being engineered by well-paid lobbying efforts with absolutely no independent verification.
That's what is REALLY behind the numbers. Stop playing on their field.
You can read more about the background of this entire effort here: »Some Facts to Consider (Was Er, no.) |
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fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
·Skype
| reply to JSRoman
Re: T R I A L
I think most people are taking a wait-and-see approach. I and others have commented if they implement it in our areas we're outta there.
But that also doesn't preclude people making it known that they don't agree with the parameters being imposed in the trial. Wait and see is one thing. But I wouldn't expect people to sit silently by while a trial runs with numbers that they feel would be unreasonable if implemented outside of the trial area.
In fact, I think it NEEDS to be discussed before, during, and after the trial. There are a lot of parties interested besides those involved in the trial.
--
Wishes: When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor. --despair.com |
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gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
| reply to anony
Re: market seppuku?
Yep, around here comcast and charter have the county divided, only choice is dish or to move.
Looks like TW is jealous of the oil industry's gouging and want to do some of their own.
It's my party and I can gouge if I want to, gouge if I want to ...
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There is no greater sign of a general decay of virtue in a nation, than a want of zeal in its inhabitants for the good of their country. ~ Joseph Addison |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to odog
Re: they aren't going after the legal stuff
said by odog :by a large for every appleTV user or Hulu user.... you've probably got 100+ hardcore BT users eating 100+GB per month. You aren't drinking the koolaid. Don't you know that 99% of bittorrent users are only downloading legal content like Linux distros and game patches.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to Phil
said by Phil :Only because these technologies are just emerging and with limited scope. As I've said elsewhere, if Netflix made their entire movie library available online I would stream ALL my movies versus getting the physical DVD via snail-mail. Time Warner's caps would not allow me this freedom. Yes it would. You would just have to pay more for the content is all.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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