Will FiOS Eventually See Caps, Per-Byte Billing?

said by fAcEtIOUs:



But they would then get the customers no provider wants - the ones who expect to eat unlimited non-stop bandwidth where they cost the company more than they bring in. Eventually Verizon will join the crowd - no one ultimately wants the WORST bandwidth hogs.

said by nukscull :

32 subs per splitter doesn't mean anything when you don't know the equipment that the splitter runs back to.

It's not like it's 32 direct connection to Verizon's peering points. Those 32 connections are going into a router or mux that must be connected up to another router by some shared link.

No, the subs do not share bandwidth locally to each other like cable, but they certainly share it at the first router they connect to. Which probably has several of the 32-way splitters connected to it.

If you get enough "24x7" users, you're going to see issues at peak times from the router where all these customers are aggregated. Verizon will be forced to do something eventually, either spend more money than they are now, or institute caps or throttling to affect the "24x7" users and hopefully not their average user.

said by jester121:

I've seen people post this same analysis on several threads and have come to the conclusion that they just don't get it. 32 users, 32 users, 32 users over and over again. FIOS now has hundreds of thousands of subscribers (don't have time to search for the latest figures, 800k sticks in my mind). Unless those users are all talking to each other, the traffic IS aggregated onto Verizon's backbone and out to the internet. Not 32 of them, but all quarter million (est.) that live in, for example, the NY "region".

By the way, Karl's chosen to overlook the fact that, like all providers large and small, Verizon already employs the over-subscription model. Unless they have 50Mbps x 800,000 subscribers of dedicated bandwidth where their network ends and the rest of the internet begins, they're oversubscribing.

said by MrSpock29:

So you are saying that 800,000 subscribers are sharing a Fios connection?
Read Skeedattle's posts below, and take a look at what you are saying. GPON handles 2.4 GBps down and 1.2 up, and that is split among 32 users. You are effectively saying that that is not true, that a quarter of a million are sharing that, which is ridiculous.

You need to change "your conclusion" as to who gets it and who doesn't, it seems seriously flawed, like your analysis.

said by jester121:

Like I said, they just don't get it. GPON, 32 houses, 2.4 GBPS!!!

Zoom your perspective out to an entire state full of 32 house GPONs. It will start to sink in.

said by jester121:

Never said there is a capacity PROBLEM. But you seem to think there can't possibly ever be any capacity concerns for their whole network, just because they've done a great job with FTTP.

"There are no American tanks outside of Baghdad."

- Baghdad Bob

said by MrSpock29:

They have no capacity problems. Maybe you can see that even if you aren't able to admit it. Their infrastructure is much better than cable's, but it seems that is news to you.

said by sporkme:

What are you, drunk?

said by jester121:

Drunk is more fun than this.

said by MrSpock29:

Being one who doesn't drink, I can't comment. But I'll take your word for it.

said by Matt:

Boooo. I'm deducting a point for an attempt to win a discussion by flaunting supposed moral superiority.

said by sporkme:

What are you, drunk?

You are missing the point. EVERYONE is agreeing that the last mile has a ton of bandwidth on FiOS, especially compared to cable.

But like every other telco access method, those customers are shared from the CO on out. Things are likely fine now, but as the service expands there will be more real costs to get those subs to the internets.

said by Matt:

He is stating that the internet is always shared at some point. So, does Verizon have enough bandwidth to get all 800,000 FiOS subscribers onto the internet backbone if they tried to max out their connection? No, obviously not. It's called the Oversubscription Model.

BPON and GPON help to address the LAST MILE shared bandwidth crunch, but do nothing to change the fact that all 800,000 FiOS users are aggregated at some point onto common infrastructure.

said by NOCMan:

So I'd like to express my thanks to every asshole out there stealing music and movies on the internet. You ruined it for everyone.

said by NOCMan:

... We rail against the RIAA and MPAA suing these people, but it's these same people now responsible for our ISP's going to metered usage....

said by nukscull :

It's not like it's 32 direct connection to Verizon's peering points. Those 32 connections are going into a router or mux that must be connected up to another router by some shared link.

No, the subs do not share bandwidth locally to each other like cable, but they certainly share it at the first router they connect to. Which probably has several of the 32-way splitters connected to it.

said by a333:

BTW, with an all-fiber network, it's a helluva easier to increase speeds than what cablecos face. Verizon has it's own backbone, AND they're already experimenting with 40 Gbps equipment, and even capable of moving up to 100 Gbps for a comparitively low cost.

said by djrobx:

quote:

---

Aside from me objecting to the term "bandwidth hog", heavier users aren't the problem for Fios like it is everyone else. With 32 subs per splitter, and GPON with 2.4 Gbps down and 1.2 up, there is plenty of room, aside from the fact each sub has their own strand.

---

People keep making the assumption that the last mile must be where the traffic jam is. Its great that Verizon has all of that capacity to the home, but they still need the transit out of the CO and onto the internet's backbones to back all of it.

I would think fiber providers would be the most eager to switch to metered access. The bigger the pipe, the bigger the potential for a single user to pull way more than their fair share of data through it. By going metered they would be in a much better position to offer speeds that really separate them from their copper competition.

said by MrSpock29:

heavier users aren't the problem for Fios like it is everyone else.

said by fAcEtIOUs:

But they would then get the customers no provider wants - the ones who expect to eat unlimited non-stop bandwidth where they cost the company more than they bring in. Eventually Verizon will join the crowd - no one ultimately wants the WORST bandwidth hogs.

said by kfsutops:

40gigs a month is a bandwidth hog?

said by spewak:

I did hear somewhere some time ago that my ISP (Surewest FTTH) institutes that very same 40gig a month cap.

said by battleop:

... Now the torrent users are forced to either buy bandwidth like any other heavy bandwidth user or live with the caps.

said by verngrey :

It's not like its being imported like oil from the middle east and there is some kind of shortage of bandwidth, whats next hybrid internet service? It's all bull hockey.

said by yolarry:

Then whats the point of having 1TB Hard Drives or 750GB?

For our home use? This is bullshit!