TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
|  Past BBR stories established Nebuad only monitoring
This article implies that Nebuad is altering code to insert ads. But past stories here have said that Nebuad gave up that method and are just monitoring traffic and selling that data to web sites so they can use directed ads.
Not that I am in favor of Nebuad monitoring as well, but Free Press should get more up to date. They are battling a system that has already been defeated.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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pbarrow
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Montgomery, AL
1 edit | Consumer Groups Dig Inside NebuAD Technology
I emailed my State District represetatives and US senators with links to the Charter NebuAd article and some other articles and objections to Deep Packet Inspection.
Everyone should look up their State and US Reps on the Gov web sites and email them your objections.
ISP's have no right to determine what Ad's I see - that's why I surf the web when I'm looking to buy something - so I can find it for myself at the best price.
NebuAd is like have the advertisers with the most money sending me ads (probably with products at higher prices).
Then there's the bigger problem of them invading my privacy.
Maybe it's time the whole internet went to DES encryption. And any company attempting to break or decipher that encryption for any reason (without a court order) would be breaking the Law. |
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gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
 ·Embarq
 ·linode
| Copyright violation
I create my click data, so it is mine. If the ISP tries to do anything with it, then they violate my copyright.
Sounds fair to me. I could use some extra money. Go ahead and steal it.
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Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240 |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Past BBR stories established Nebuad only monitoring
I'm sure Robb will correct me if I'm wrong, but you're talking about two different things.
The "injection" you're thinking of consisted of a Texas ISP named RedMoon using a NebuAD banner technology reserved for free Wi-Fi advertising in general broadband use. That resulted in banners being superimposed over existing websites and ad relationships...That was part of a "Fair Eagle" project that NebuAD stopped.
This is different and speaks to the system fundamentals. Topolski is saying the system as a whole forges IP packets so their JavaScript code is written into source code trusted by the Web browser. |
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pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
Premium
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
clubs:
·Comcast
2 edits | NotMyAds
Umm.. more importantly, this can take away steal my ad revenue if it grabs my pages' code, deep packet inspects it - saving my visitors click-data, cookie info, etc., then injects its own ads over mine.
What makes them think this is even remotely legal? |
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EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | reply to gatorkram
Re: Copyright violation
I'm sorry, did you see clause 7(b)(iii)(q)(N)(25) in your TOS agreement? You consent to having your click data sold, as every TOS includes the clause that they can change it whenever. |
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GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| reply to gatorkram
said by gatorkram  :I create my click data, so it is mine. If the ISP tries to do anything with it, then they violate my copyright. Sounds fair to me. I could use some extra money. Go ahead and steal it. Yep if it were only to be challenged and stand up. I totally agree.
What is worse still, is that if this really is modifying the page code before it reaches the user agent that sent the request they're changing something which they have absolutely NO right to change, i.e. the web site code from the remote server.
No ISP or ad vendor has any right to modify the code being sent from my servers to someone requesting a page. I don't care if it is the ISP's network or not, the code from that page is not free for them to change.
I agree legality is an issue with this but it won't be stopped unless they're sued and lose.
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TheGlobalMind.com | Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? | Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. Ralph Waldo Emerson
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Skype
1 edit | reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Past BBR stories established Nebuad only monitoring
said by TKJunkMail :This article implies that Nebuad is altering code to insert ads. But past stories here have said that Nebuad gave up that method and are just monitoring traffic and selling that data to web sites so they can use directed ads. Then they're wrong -- or they started doing that after June 1st.
Any links? I'm not sure what specifically you are referring to...
Edit: nevermind, I see Karl's response above. He's right.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
HTTP is the new Bandwidth Hog...
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SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| reply to gatorkram
Re: Copyright violation
said by gatorkram :I create my click data, so it is mine. If the ISP tries to do anything with it, then they violate my copyright. I understand that you think your clickdata belongs to you, but it's not a copyright and neither you nor anyone else will be able to use that argument. Clickdata is a privacy issue, not one for the copyright office. |
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SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| reply to pokesph
Re: NotMyAds
said by pokesph :What makes them think this is even remotely legal? Same thing that makes throttling/capping legal. There are no current Federal or State laws against it. |
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jimness000
join:2005-03-28
West Chicago, IL
| reply to Karl Bode
Re: Past BBR stories established Nebuad only monitoring
What concerns me on the surface is the common practice of using web-based email. My company and my wife's both have web portals into their email systems. My wife, an HR person in her company, has access through web portals to payroll and other private employee information.
It sounds as though this technology could be used to gain access to proprietary info which is assumed to be secure (via HTTPS connections).
Am I wrong? |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode :This is different and speaks to the system fundamentals. Topolski is saying the system as a whole forges IP packets so their JavaScript code is written into source code trusted by the Web browser. Some observations on the Topolski study:
1. He turned off the anti-phishing feature in IE. This may have made the attack possible where it normally might not have if turned on by default as it usually is.
2. If a user blocks ALL cookies not originating at specific list of web site domains, the injected cookie from "faireagle.com" could not be put on the client system for tracking purposes. I assume from reading his writeup that the system he tested with allowed temporary cookies and that is how Nebuad could put cookies on the system. I never allow my system to do that.
3. If using Firefox with the "noscript" addon, then any injected javascript from faireagle.com wouldn't be executed.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to jimness000
said by jimness000 :It sounds as though this technology could be used to gain access to proprietary info which is assumed to be secure (via HTTPS connections).Am I wrong? Yes. I think you are. The Nebuad device has no decrypting capabilities and can't see inside encrypted packets. They could tell the end points of the conversation but not see the data.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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Dakota1991
@charter.com
| Not what we're paying for
It's one thing for an ISP to sell what you're doing to third parties in order to flood you with ads, if the advertisers are paying for your Internet connection. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm paying Charter nearly $55/month for Internet service. For my payment, I expect Charter to provide me with reliable Internet access and nothing more. If they want to sell my data to someone else, they should reduce or eliminate the money I have to pay them each month.
I wonder how Charter would feel if they paid someone to paint their building and without their knowledge or permission, the painter "sold" the rights to advertisers to put their ads on Charter's building (without compensation to Charter). I don't think Charter would appreciate that, but that is exactly what they're doing to us. Unfortunately, where I live it's either Charter or nothing.
The bigger problem we have in the U.S. is that there are very few laws that protect the average citizen. Companies are permitted to collect any data on us that they desire and to resell that data to anyone they want. In most cases, we not only have no control over our own data, but we don't even know who has it or how (or even if) they protect it. It's no wonder that identity theft is the fastest growing crime in this country. It would be nice if Congress worked to protect the rights of the citizens, but it seems like they only work for the big corporations and their lobby machines. It's all about making as much money you can and the hell with who gets hurt in the process. |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Past BBR stories established Nebuad only monitoring
said by TKJunkMail :This article implies that Nebuad is altering code to insert ads. But past stories here have said that Nebuad gave up that method and are just monitoring traffic and selling that data to web sites so they can use directed ads. Not that I am in favor of Nebuad monitoring as well, but Free Press should get more up to date. They are battling a system that has already been defeated. Agreed, the article leads one to believe that ads will be inserted by altering code (at least thats what I got out of it), which doesnt appear to be the case with this product at the current time. The other thing is that regardless of how you feel about what Nebuad does, its really not any (fundamentally) different then what happens when you use Gmail. Unless it can be proven that something is going on other than targeted ads being delivered (things Google has been doing for years), then this whole argument is pointless.
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If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly.
-Ronald Reagan-
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SanJoseNerd
Premium
join:2002-07-24
San Jose, CA
| reply to pokesph
Re: NotMyAds
said by pokesph :Umm.. more importantly, this can take away steal my ad revenue if it grabs my pages' code, deep packet inspects it - saving my visitors click-data, cookie info, etc., then injects its own ads over mine. What makes them think this is even remotely legal? It's not legal. A few years back, some websites started to engage in "framing". For example, they would show the New York Times website in a frame, while displaying their own ads in an adjacent frame, thus effectively attaching their own ads to the Times (without any permission from or payment to the Times). Framing was challenged in court, and found to be illegal. That's why you don't see it any more. For an ISP to inject their own ads into your web pages is certainly illegal under the same principle. |
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JohnQPublic
Premium
join:2002-03-22
Xanadu
| reply to Dakota1991
Re: Not what we're paying for
It's ironic you bring up the payment issue.
I was just thinking a few moments ago that it won't be long before some of the marketing geniuses at the ISPs (telcos and cable companies) cook up some clever marketing gimmick making it appear to be a value-added service. You'll see a line item charge any month now.
You can take that to the bank. |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | reply to gatorkram
Re: Copyright violation
How about if something you click on (say.. mp3s) and download.
Since NebuAd is reading that data as well, they are also in copyright violation.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| reply to wifi4milez
Re: Past BBR stories established Nebuad only monitoring
It is completely different from what GMail does. With GMail you intentionally sign up for their service and they place ads next to your e-mail based on its content. This is a system a user voluntarily agrees to be part of, and the ads are placed by the server.
NebuAd intercepts your traffic whether you like it or not, and changes the code that was sent from the server to your computer.
Also, changes mail providers is easy, changing ISPs is not. |
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Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY | reply to Dakota1991
Re: Not what we're paying for
What is even better is if you add NebuAd ads to a subscriber charged by the byte. What an ISP hoot!! |
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