 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC kudos:12 | Big brass ones
I've got to admit, this guy has a big, brass set of 'em. He's lucky he wasn't found with a bullet in the back of his head in an alley. I wouldn't put that past the NSA or AT&T.
However - and maybe I'm drinking the governmental Kool-Aid here - but perhaps the information he has isn't that damaging at all and the investigative organization has found out all they need to know?
It sounds more like he's whining because he's no longer in the spotlight. | |
|
 |  P NessYou'Ve Forgotten 9-11 AlreadyPremium join:2001-08-29 way way out | Re: Big brass ones said by Matt:I've got to admit, this guy has a big, brass set of 'em. He's lucky he wasn't found with a bullet in the back of his head in an alley. I wouldn't put that past the NSA or AT&T. However - and maybe I'm drinking the governmental Kool-Aid here - but perhaps the information he has isn't that damaging at all and the investigative organization has found out all they need to know? It sounds more like he's whining because he's no longer in the spotlight. dont need to kill anyone anymore...just pay off congress and the president to give you immunity | |
|
 |  |  en102Canadian, eh? join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA | Re: Big brass ones Exactly...Congress/Senators are all bought and paid for. Very little goes on in DC that isn't paid for by lobbiests/special interests -- Canada = Hollywood North | |
|
 |  |  KevNYCPremium join:2002-03-31 Seattle, WA | said by P Ness:said by Matt:I've got to admit, this guy has a big, brass set of 'em. He's lucky he wasn't found with a bullet in the back of his head in an alley. I wouldn't put that past the NSA or AT&T. However - and maybe I'm drinking the governmental Kool-Aid here - but perhaps the information he has isn't that damaging at all and the investigative organization has found out all they need to know? It sounds more like he's whining because he's no longer in the spotlight. dont need to kill anyone anymore...just pay off congress and the president to give you immunity Sounds like a scene out of 24.  | |
|
 |  wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace join:2004-08-07 New York, NY | said by Matt:However - and maybe I'm drinking the governmental Kool-Aid here - but perhaps the information he has isn't that damaging at all and the investigative organization has found out all they need to know? It sounds more like he's whining because he's no longer in the spotlight. I actually agree with you on this one. This guy is just pissed because the media has stopped asking him for interviews, and his phone has stopped ringing. He probably lost a contract to do some cheesy "made for TV" movie, and he clearly regrets leaving his cushy job at ATT. I dont think any company in the industry will be jumping at the chance to hire a person like him either. Furthermore, all his wild claims seem to have fallen by the wayside, and almost everyone (from all parties) has withdrawn their support of his allegations. Once it became clear that his claims of "illegal" and "evil" activity werent true, most intelligent people lost interest in him. -- If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly. -Ronald Reagan-
| |
|
 |  |  ykronicPremium join:2006-01-31 Canada | Re: Big brass ones I wouldn't say all his claims have been proven false. But the fact of the matter is that once this bill passes, and presumably it will, everything he has to say will be moot anyways, so why would anyone want to continue to muddy themselves with ugly things like facts when the support to brush it all under the carpet is unanimous? -- Passive Aggressive Predator Posing As A Potted Plant | |
|
 |  |  Wills join:2001-01-03 Port Charlotte, FL | And you two twits are why this stuff keeps happening. You don't back the guy, you don't press for what is right, you simply sit back and chastize.
Bastards. -- I have a shaved head, a goatee, and tatoos. Don't you realize the rules don't apply to me. | |
|
 |  |  |  ykronicPremium join:2006-01-31 Canada | Re: Big brass ones I'm not required to back the guy, I personally don't give a flying rats behind. My government isn't the one listening in on my phone calls. And assuming it was I wouldn't have supported bush 8 years ago any more than I support him today. But I tell you what, start a campaign with a viable strategy for getting all the money, corruption, lobbying, and other BS out of government and get it to start working for the people and I'll back you 100%. Until then, I'll continue to choose my battles and find a way to work in and around the system that we're stuck with. -- Passive Aggressive Predator Posing As A Potted Plant | |
|
 |  |  |  james join:2001-02-26 CWCville USA | They're entitled to their opinions. No need to resort to name calling. | |
|
 |  |  |
 |  |  |  james join:2001-02-26 CWCville USA | Re: Big brass ones It's now spelled "Sauce". Didn't you get the latest internets tubes copypasta? | |
|
 |  |  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | said by fatness:said by wifi4milez:This guy is just pissed because the media has stopped asking him for interviews, and his phone has stopped ringing. Source? He probably lost a contract to do some cheesy "made for TV" movie, and he clearly regrets leaving his cushy job at ATT. Source? Once it became clear that his claims of "illegal" and "evil" activity werent true Source? said by wifi4milez:This guy is just pissed because the media has stopped asking him for interviews, and his phone has stopped ringing. Troll?
He probably lost a contract to do some cheesy "made for TV" movie, and he clearly regrets leaving his cushy job at ATT. Troll?
Once it became clear that his claims of "illegal" and "evil" activity werent true Troll? | |
|
 |  |  |  |  1 edit | Re: Big brass ones You expect anything else? | |
|
 |  |  JakCrow join:2001-12-06 Palo Alto, CA | said by wifi4milez:I actually agree with you on this one. This guy is just pissed because the media has stopped asking him for interviews, and his phone has stopped ringing. He probably lost a contract to do some cheesy "made for TV" movie, and he clearly regrets leaving his cushy job at ATT. I dont think any company in the industry will be jumping at the chance to hire a person like him either. Furthermore, all his wild claims seem to have fallen by the wayside, and almost everyone (from all parties) has withdrawn their support of his allegations. Once it became clear that his claims of "illegal" and "evil" activity werent true, most intelligent people lost interest in him. Can you point to these "all parties" that have withdrawn their support? All that has been established is he is a whistleblower on a significant issue and a congress that just rolled over on telco immunity didn't call him has a witness. *Shock*! Your assumption has little basis in reality. | |
|
 |  |  |  wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace join:2004-08-07 New York, NY | Re: Big brass ones said by JakCrow:Can you point to these "all parties" that have withdrawn their support? Certainly. Republicans and Democrats. Given that over 90% of our elected politicians fall into those two groups, I would say this guy has lost all his support. -- If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly. -Ronald Reagan-
| |
|
 |  |  |  |  JakCrow join:2001-12-06 Palo Alto, CA | Re: Big brass ones said by wifi4milez:said by JakCrow:Can you point to these "all parties" that have withdrawn their support? Certainly. Republicans and Democrats. Given that over 90% of our elected politicians fall into those two groups, I would say this guy has lost all his support. What a ridiculous statement. | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace join:2004-08-07 New York, NY | Re: Big brass ones said by JakCrow:said by wifi4milez:said by JakCrow:Can you point to these "all parties" that have withdrawn their support? Certainly. Republicans and Democrats. Given that over 90% of our elected politicians fall into those two groups, I would say this guy has lost all his support. What a ridiculous statement. Why, is there some mysterious 3rd party (that nobody knows about yet has hundreds of millions of members) that is throwing their full support behind this guy? Ohhhh, I know. It must be the Free Masons since they have secretly infiltrated our political system. I hate to break it to you, but the Republicans and Democrats ARE the majority politcal parties in the US today. This guy no longer has any support from anyone, and thankfully so. -- If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly. -Ronald Reagan-
| |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  |  JakCrow join:2001-12-06 Palo Alto, CA | Re: Big brass ones said by wifi4milez:Why, is there some mysterious 3rd party (that nobody knows about yet has hundreds of millions of members) that is throwing their full support behind this guy? Ohhhh, I know. It must be the Free Masons since they have secretly infiltrated our political system. I hate to break it to you, but the Republicans and Democrats ARE the majority politcal parties in the US today. This guy no longer has any support from anyone, and thankfully so. When did he ever had congress' support? | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Give it up man. You are fighting with left-wing conspiracy theory morons. If you are searching for the end of the voluntary ignorance in that group, you will never find it. | |
|
 |  |  |  lesopp join:2001-06-27 Land O Lakes, FL | said by JakCrow:Can you point to these "all parties" that have withdrawn their support? All that has been established is he is a whistle genital blower on a significant issue and a congress after the democrats were pleasured by him that they just rolled over and went back to sleeping at the wheel. *Shock*! Your assumption has little basis in reality. Made some corrections for you. | |
|
 |  |  |  |  JakCrow join:2001-12-06 Palo Alto, CA | Re: Big brass ones said by lesopp:said by JakCrow:Can you point to these "all parties" that have withdrawn their support? All that has been established is he is a whistle genital blower on a significant issue and a congress after the democrats were pleasured by him that they just rolled over and went back to sleeping at the wheel. *Shock*! Your assumption has little basis in reality. Made some corrections for you. Ah yes, the "I have nothing, so I'll just misrepresent what someone else said" tactic. | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  lesopp join:2001-06-27 Land O Lakes, FL | Re: Big brass ones But I learned that from you master. | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  |  JakCrow join:2001-12-06 Palo Alto, CA 1 edit | Re: Big brass ones said by lesopp:But I learned that from you master. That means you can point to where I've edited someone's post because I didn't have a leg to stand on. Wait a second. You can't. | |
|
 |  |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| said by wifi4milez:Once it became clear that his claims of "illegal" and "evil" activity werent true, most intelligent people lost interest in him. BS. They're true all right. As for the intelligent people, well, they're on the side of exposing the truth. -- "Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
|
 |  |  |  wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace join:2004-08-07 New York, NY | Re: Big brass ones said by KrK:said by wifi4milez:Once it became clear that his claims of "illegal" and "evil" activity werent true, most intelligent people lost interest in him. BS. They're true all right. As for the intelligent people, well, they're on the side of exposing the truth. Can you reference a single person being arrested, convicted, or sentenced for this alleged crime? As for the people "exposing the truth", what happened to them all? -- If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly. -Ronald Reagan-
| |
|
 |  |  |  |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Big brass ones said by wifi4milez:Can you reference a single person being arrested, convicted, or sentenced for this alleged crime? Nope. The government isn't filing any charges. In fact they're doing the opposite, trying to help cover it up. So Explain how no arrest, conviction, or sentence means that nothing illegal occurred?
Is this that "It's only wrong if you're caught" type of idea? -- "Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
|
 |  |  |  |  | | You are so right.... they are so innocent in what they have done that they need congress to pass a bill to "protect" them from doing nothing wrong.
If they did nothing wrong then they should have no problem allowing their actions to play out in court. They can claim national security, but this certainly wouldnt be the first time and our judicial system has handled several cases that were truly national security (which this isnt) and not a single time has information leaked out that compromised that security.
Bottom line is, they want immunity because they know they are guilty and it will cost them. It was cheaper to pay off the corrupt congress then it was to pay off the lawsuits and lawyers. | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Big brass ones said by Skippy25:You are so right.... they are so innocent in what they have done that they need congress to pass a bill to "protect" them from doing nothing wrong. If they did nothing wrong then they should have no problem allowing their actions to play out in court. Please return to reality. Once the trial lawyers get their teeth into an industry, they can literally kill companies with class action lawsuits, even if they don't win them. They can file essentially the same lawsuit over and over and over again in different venues, and force a company to settle rather than eat the cost and the PR nightmare from the trials, and become multimillionares in the process.
It's not about right and wrong. It's about not swimming when there are sharks in the water.
Why do you think the coffee you buy has big signs and labels saying "Warning! Coffee is hot!" and in fact it's served tepid? Because someone decided to file a lawsuit, and it actually makes business sense to punish everyone rather than stand up to one moron.
This is the country we live in, because of the justice system we tolerate. | |
|
 |  | | Sounds like you watch to much TV. | |
|
 superdogI Need A DrinkPremium,MVM join:2001-07-13 Lebanon, PA | I hate our Gov't sometimes! I live in the best Country in the world, yet that same Country uses ideas and methods they claim will keep us safe that are against what we stand for in the first place?. I guess I just don't get it? -- »www.wavecrazy.net
| |
|
 |  bentand IngaPremium join:2004-10-04 Loveland, CO | Re: I hate our Gov't sometimes! No, I think you're starting to get it... | |
|
 | | So much for a Democratic Congress..... Just proves my point that Congress is bought and paid for no matter what the party affiliation. | |
|
 |  See 59 replies to this post |
|
 XBL2009------ join:2001-01-03 Chicago, IL | Democrats sellout They just pretend they care more then the Republicans who sellout without any shame.
In the end the rhetoric doesn't mean a thing. It's the vote that matters. | |
|
 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD | Meanwhile...
Back in the real world:
- Unleaded gasoline is well over $4 a gallon.
- The price of Natural gas is about to break another record.
- Food inflation is through the roof.
- There are 20 million or more illegal aliens infesting this country.
- The economy is slowing.
Thankfully the Democrat party is right on top of all the real problems facing this country. -- This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! | |
|
 |  See 17 replies to this post |
|
 |
 |  See 10 replies to this post |
|
 TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus join:2001-06-20 Cheyenne, WY | Don't Blame Me....... Don't Blame Me I Voted for Bill and Opus. |
 | |
|
 |  | | Re: Don't Blame Me....... I voted for Kang! | |
|
 Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium join:2004-12-10 Lorton, VA kudos:1 Reviews:
·Bright House
·Sprint Mobile Br..
| Republicans on wrong side of this issue. This is the first issue in memory in which I would have supported the Democrats.
Presented accurately (MSM and conservatives colluding here), this has a strong potential of tipping a close election, heavily in favor of Obama.
Yet Obama trades such an opportunity in favor of a massive expansion of NSA power.
I wonder why that is?
NV -- Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd. | |
|
 |  CorydonCultivant son jardinPremium join:2008-02-18 Denver, CO | Re: Republicans on wrong side of this issue. Forget about Obama and the Democrats. Obama's proven that he's got absolutely no interest whatsoever in reining this in. He's probably salivating at the thought of having unfettered access to everyone's communications himself.
Likewise Pelosi and Hoyer and Reid have also shown that they are all in favor of an authoritarian Big-Brother style government. -- "Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too." | |
|
 Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| What would the point of testifying be, again? Karl seems to live in some bizarro conspiracy-theory world where major intelligence operations are conducted by a dark, secret, rogue administration, and we need a hero "whistleblower" to blow the cover off the operation.
In reality, the appropriate Congressional committees are briefed routinely, in secret, on classified Intelligence operations. Thus this "whistleblower" testimony would add no new information. All this guy did, in reality, was leak information that he should not have had and that should not have been leaked.
This is the reason why he gets no love from Congress. They know that they are "in the loop", and they know nothing good could result for them from a big, grandstanding Congressional hearing.
The only reason for hearings would be to grandstand and have congresspeople pretend they are outraged by something they already knew and approved. | |
|
 |  See 15 replies to this post |
|
 fatnesssubtleJanitor join:2000-11-17 fishing kudos:13 Host: Bright House Netwo.. Earthlink DSL TekSavvy Forum Feature Requ.. Need Site Help
| finally A reasonable idea, in the way of an amendment that will be offered. Bingaman offers a different solution. Hitching his amendment to the anti-amnesty argument (.pdf) that Congress should not approve what it did not understand, Bingaman proposes that the court cases and amnesty powers all are put on hold, until three months after the joint report by the Inspectors General of the various intelligence services complete their report to Congress on just what transpired between the nation's telecoms and the intelligence services.
If Congress is disturbed by the report -- due a year from the day the bill becomes law, it has time to undo or tweak the rules; otherwise, it can just leave amnesty provisions to come into effect three months after the report to Congress (both public and classified). »blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/0···sty.html
Surely nobody can be against leaving things as they are at present and reviewing the intelligence agencies' reports before the final decision is made?  -- Female monkeys often utter loud, distinctive calls before, during or after sex.. | |
|
 |  bentand IngaPremium join:2004-10-04 Loveland, CO Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: finally I actually sent an email to both my Senators supporting the bill as amended by Bingaman. Makes good sense. -- »www.lp.org/issues/family-budget
"That government is best which governs least" - Thoreau | |
|
 | | No one likes a snitch
Don't cry because no one will play with you anymore  | |
|
 |  See 6 replies to this post |
|
 CorydonCultivant son jardinPremium join:2008-02-18 Denver, CO | FYI, the Senate vote was delayed until Wednesday so that Senators could attend Jesse Helms' funeral today.
Which means that there's still time to contact your Senators.
»www.stopthespying.org/ -- "Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too." | |
|
 |
 | | Immunity more important than security I think Bush said it all by saying he'd veto the bill if immunity wasn't provided.
Some folks on this forum seem to feel that the spying was only done when one party was on foreign soil (like the law says), but this wasn't true. It's everyone and still going on. Remember the way Martin Luther King and J.F.K. were spied on? (from EFF.org)
Here's USA Today in May of 2005: "National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth... For the customers of these companies, it means that the government has detailed records of calls they made across town or across the country to family members, co-workers, business contacts and others."
Here's The New York Times' Pulitzer-winning coverage in 2005: "As part of the program approved by President Bush for domestic surveillance without warrants, the N.S.A. has gained the cooperation of American telcom companies to obtain backdoor access to streams of domestic and international communications, the officials said."
And here's The Wall Street Journal in March of this year: "According to current and former intelligence officials, the spy agency now monitors huge volumes of records of domestic emails and Internet searches ... The haul can include records of phone calls, email headers and destinations, data on financial transactions and records of Internet browsing."
Bush doesn't seem overly concerned about passing on the immense powers of his presidency to anyone else soon.
Add to it that if they heard about something illegal (medical marijuanna for example) you could be charged and found guilty but never know why - your lawyer and possibly the judge could gain access to the evidence. That right was given up with the Patriot Act. The FISA just gives approval for any method to collect information. | |
|
 fatnesssubtleJanitor join:2000-11-17 fishing kudos:13 Host: Bright House Netwo.. Earthlink DSL TekSavvy Forum Feature Requ.. Need Site Help
| consequences for voting I follow politics about as little as I follow UFC (they seem the same), so I don't know if this will pan out or not. But apparently some former fundraisers for Ron Paul are working for a group that's raising money to run ads against the Democrats voting for this immunity bill.
Online Movement Aims to Punish Democrats Who Support Bush Wiretap Bill
Progressive author and lawyer Glenn Greenwald, who writes for Salon.com, and blogger Jane Hamsher of Firedoglake, are spearheading the effort. They've hired the political media consultants behind a historic Ron Paul online fundraising drive to organize a similar "moneybomb," set to go off Aug. 8.
"That is the day Richard Nixon resigned, and the idea is that 35 years ago when you did this kind of stuff, you were forced out of office, and now congress drops everything to make your crimes legal," says Hamsher in an interview.
The campaign marks a milestone in the evolution of online grassroots organizing. The PAC is cherry-picking the tactics and tools that proved most successful in the presidential primary campaigns, and is using them to corral online support for the single issue of domestic spying. The PAC's money pay for advertisements in the districts of the House Democrats who voted for the spy bill -- potentially causing problems for those capitulating on the Bush wiretapping program. -- Female monkeys often utter loud, distinctive calls before, during or after sex.. | |
|
 |  chuckkk join:2001-11-10 Warner Robins, GA Reviews:
·Cox HSI
| Re: consequences for voting Domestic spying is a hot button, simply because a government generally feels that it needs to know what the citizens are doing. Even if things are on the up & up. (Big Brother and all that)
I'm not opposed to the providers sending the government raw data, just having the providers pre-filter it for the government.
At one time, Cold War, (pre-satellite) the government monitored virtually all overseas phone calls. Today, the sheer volume would swamp anything but a very major effort.
If the government seduces a private company into doing something illegal, I feel that the government assumes the liability, and should not be able to hide behind the sovereign immunity clauses. | |
|
 |  1 edit | That didn't work out for them very well. Ron Paul is over. He had his shot and lost. These people need a new standard bearer. | |
|
 |
|