DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou | Hopefully they won't block VPN access now
Bell Canada has already wielded a big sword against P2P on wholesale providers' access. Who's to say they won't do the same for VPN access?
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:: my trivial ramblings :: |
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Anomaly95
join:2005-12-11
Phoenix, AZ | Wouldn't that screw the legit users of VPN (businesses, etc.)? |
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accusync
join:2004-07-16
Rigaud, QC
| said by Anomaly95  :Wouldn't that screw the legit users of VPN (businesses, etc.)? Since when did that little detail bother Sympatico/ Bell? |
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Gerk
join:2008-07-02
Oakville, ON
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
| This is old news and doesn't work here
Not sure if it's working for your network segments, but in the Toronto area this hasn't worked for a long while now. Also they are using DPI on ALL ports, all types of traffic, all encrypted traffic here, including VPN is throttled even through other ISPs (this is the whole point of the CAIP CRTC complaint).
VPN, scp, sftp have all but stopped here as well. I really really hope that the CRTC can do something about this. |
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Phil
Rojo Sol
Premium
join:2001-06-11
Camarillo, CA | reply to DaSneaky1D
Re: Hopefully they won't block VPN access now
They should charge extra for certain ports, VPN included. This in addition to overage charges on low monthly caps sounds like a winning strategy to not spend money on infrastructure and please the customer base. |
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mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to Gerk
Re: This is old news and doesn't work here
said by Gerk :Also they are using DPI on ALL ports, all types of traffic, all encrypted traffic here, including VPN is throttled even through other ISPs (this is the whole point of the CAIP CRTC complaint). If you use standard VPN protocols (L2TP and PPTP) on standard ports it works fine.
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"If bullshit was money this guy would be richer that Bill Gates." - quote by olebiker on Mirko Bibic |
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Devanchya
Smile
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Ajax, ON
·Bell Sympatico
| People who P2P Encrpyt kill the Internet for others
I'm fighting with Bell and Rogers right now because my business lines are getting capped / crippled.
They are treating encrypted traffic as if it is P2P traffic.
I don't believe in throttling.
I am frustrated that people getting "around" throttling has caused my legit use to get throttled.
In this way, all parties are guilty.
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»www.codecipher.com - Marking the way to tomorrow's solutions |
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yaaaaaawn
@videotron.ca
| said by Devanchya :I'm fighting with Bell and Rogers right now because my business lines are getting capped / crippled. They are treating encrypted traffic as if it is P2P traffic. I don't believe in throttling. I am frustrated that people getting "around" throttling has caused my legit use to get throttled. In this way, all parties are guilty. You're choice to use them for business. No one elses. Maybe your review should reflect the true service you are getting and the true value for your money. |
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Uncomm0n
join:2005-04-21
Centreville, VA
1 edit | reply to Phil
Re: Hopefully they won't block VPN access now
said by Phil :They should charge extra for certain ports, VPN included. This in addition to overage charges on low monthly caps sounds like a winning strategy to not spend money on infrastructure and please the customer base. I hope you're being sarcastic. That in no way would "please the customer base." When I pay for Internet access, I expect all outgoing/incoming ports (except incoming on port 80 and outgoing on port 25) to be wide open with no throttling. |
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Phil
Rojo Sol
Premium
join:2001-06-11
Camarillo, CA | Yes, I was being quite sarcastic. |
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adisor19
join:2004-10-11
·Velcom
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Radioactif
·Videotron
·Look Communications
| reply to Devanchya
Re: People who P2P Encrpyt kill the Internet for others
HAHAHAHAH
WE are killing the Internet for you ?!! LOL that's a new one. How about BELL/ROBERS/OTHER INCUMBENT ISP that are throttling your encrypted connection in the first place ? Internet should not be throttled based on protocol. You pay a certain amount per month to have a pipe coming in your home that treats all traffic equal. However you decide to treat that traffic and prioritize it is your problem not the ISPs. If you think otherwise, then you deserve what you're getting.
And yes, WTH are you thinkin giving bell such a high review yet you come here to complain about their service ?
Adi |
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mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
1 edit | reply to Devanchya
said by Devanchya :I'm fighting with Bell and Rogers right now because my business lines are getting capped / crippled. They are treating encrypted traffic as if it is P2P traffic. I don't believe in throttling. I am frustrated that people getting "around" throttling has caused my legit use to get throttled. In this way, all parties are guilty. I don't believe in throttling either.
We aren't causing it, it's the ISPs. It's also very easy to bypass with the right hardware and ISP.
I'm only guilty because my telco is making me guilty.
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"If bullshit was money this guy would be richer that Bill Gates." - quote by olebiker on Mirko Bibic |
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Devanchya
Smile
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Ajax, ON
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to adisor19
Actually I didn't think my bell review was high. In fact it's dropped a lot since I first did one.
Reality is, my home connection is rock solid. The web is always there. My e-mail hasn't died in a year. I can do what I want.
I very specifically stated that there are better ISP for the cost.
What my point is, is instead of going after the ISP and complaining or doing the leg work that is going on with the CRTC... people go for the 'easy route' and this in fact causes issues for others who are using the protocols for the right means.
If there were a decently priced ISP that would offer internet connection for the office I would take it. Rogers only came in and wired it because they were fighting against LOOK for business back then. Bell because we were in the same building as a bank.
I'd move the office but the Lease would cost money to break. Moving costs money. Good employee's might quit if they decide it's to far to move.
So.... here I am, fighting with 2 giant corporations regarding throttled encrypted connections... because someone decided they wanted to get faster P2P speeds.
Understand,... this Rant is not directed towards those who use P2P in legitimate reasons. It's towards those who do P2P pirating, have tons of seeds going, and just leave the computer running 24x7 because they don't give a crap for their fellow man. |
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smcallah
join:2004-08-05
Home
| reply to Gerk
Re: This is old news and doesn't work here
Yeah, DPI doesn't care about ports. DPI looks at every packet, regardless of port and determines what is in the packet and then categorizes it. That is why it's called, DPI, Deep Packet Inspection.
If Bell Canada's DPI is fooled by a port, then it's not that much of a DPI product. If you set a webserver to VPN ports, DPI would easily still be able to tell that it's a webserver. Just like it should be able to see that BitTorrent or any other P2P application has moved to another port. |
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mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| said by smcallah :Yeah, DPI doesn't care about ports. DPI looks at every packet, regardless of port and determines what is in the packet and then categorizes it. That is why it's called, DPI, Deep Packet Inspection. If Bell Canada's DPI is fooled by a port, then it's not that much of a DPI product. If you set a webserver to VPN ports, DPI would easily still be able to tell that it's a webserver. Just like it should be able to see that BitTorrent or any other P2P application has moved to another port. It looks at protocol AND port.
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"If bullshit was money this guy would be richer that Bill Gates." - quote by olebiker on Mirko Bibic |
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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
·ELECTRONICBOX
| This may be a strategic tactic
Per Vices's filing may affect how Bell makes it next filing. Bell has already admitted that their DPI is able to find BitTorrent that hides under a well known port (Bell uses "masquerading" but that would imply BitTorrent emilate the protocol of another application which it doesn't)
Bell may be forced to admit that instead of looking for BitTorrent signatures, it may throttle everything by default, and then unthrottle certain well known protocols when the application signature and the port match the protocol. |
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steve1515
Premium
join:2000-08-07
Peabody, MA
·Speakeasy
1 edit | reply to Uncomm0n
Re: Hopefully they won't block VPN access now
said by Uncomm0n :... When I pay for Internet access, I expect all outgoing/incoming ports (except incoming on port 80 and outgoing on port 25) to be wide open with no throttling. I really hate to see comments like this. I don't really find it acceptable that any ports are blocked. People shouldn't be OK with this. When I pay for Internet access, I expect all outgoing/incoming ports to be wide open with no throttling. |
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smcallah
join:2004-08-05
Home
| reply to mlerner
Re: This is old news and doesn't work here
Then it's not much of a DPI product they're using. Since DPI should not care about ports, as it is looking at every packet regardless of the port and determines what the protocol is by the packet headers and deeper. It should never care about the port, since you can run anything on any port. |
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mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| said by smcallah :Then it's not much of a DPI product they're using. Since DPI should not care about ports, as it is looking at every packet regardless of the port and determines what the protocol is by the packet headers and deeper. It should never care about the port, since you can run anything on any port. Yes but these Ellacoya boxes they're using are capable of much more than DPI even though it is their main function. The main reason Bell configured it this way I think is because Bell uses port 995 for SSL over pop3. Not only does it do port filtering, they can use it to identify subscribers, measure usage etc.
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"If bullshit was money this guy would be richer that Bill Gates." - quote by olebiker on Mirko Bibic |
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PerVices
join:2008-07-08
| Additional Information
Hi,
We've put together a quick technical brief detailing more clearly how to bypass the throttling, and giving specific examples using two sample bit-torrent clients (uTorrent, KTorrent).
You can find it here:
»www.pervices.com/docs/throttling···rief.pdf
Right now, we have tested this on a third party ISP (Tek Savvy). We are not sure if this can be extended to Sympatico retail customers. It may also be that the DPI device is configured to grey list bit torrent users temporarily.
We appreciate any feedback - specifically your ISP, and if you have success using this method.
Warm Regards,
Victor Wollesen
Applied Research
Per Vices Corporation |
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