  MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 |  Good
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 |  hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | Re: Good said by Matt:Good, alt.binary is full of nothing but porn, warez, movies, and music anyway. Let the leechers who want access to that pay an external usenet provider. So are you saying that porn is bad or illegal in some why??
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Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. | |
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| | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Good said by hopeflicker:said by Matt:Good, alt.binary is full of nothing but porn, warez, movies, and music anyway. Let the leechers who want access to that pay an external usenet provider. So are you saying that porn is bad or illegal in some why?? Porn is illegal for minors to access. ISP provided newsgroups have absolutely ZERO access restrictions on them. I feel it's the parent's responsibility to monitor their children, but kids will be kids and if you leave a loaded gun sitting on the table ...
That's not my main point of contention with newsgroups, but since you asked. | |
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| | | hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | Re: Good said by Matt:said by hopeflicker:said by Matt:Good, alt.binary is full of nothing but porn, warez, movies, and music anyway. Let the leechers who want access to that pay an external usenet provider. So are you saying that porn is bad or illegal in some why?? Porn is illegal for minors to access. ISP provided newsgroups have absolutely ZERO access restrictions on them. I feel it's the parent's responsibility to monitor their children, but kids will be kids and if you leave a loaded gun sitting on the table ... That's not my main point of contention with newsgroups, but since you asked. then maybe we should ban porn, booze, and cigs because you know, kids will be kids.
It's not the responsibility of the ISP to be cops.
Im sure someone is getting paid for these moves.
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Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. | |
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| | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Good said by hopeflicker:then maybe we should ban porn, booze, and cigs because you know, kids will be kids. It's not the responsibility of the ISP to be cops. Im sure someone is getting paid for these moves. Can you access porn (legally), buy cigarettes or booze if you are underage? No. Can you download "Asian XXX Episode 3" from alt.binaries.idonthaveagirlfriend without proving you're over 18? Yes. That is illegal. Additionally, when you download porn from newsgroups, you're still committing copyright infringement. Porn isn't magically excluded from copyright laws and protections.
Once again, there are no positives to carrying the alt.binaries newsgroups ... sorry but you're going to have to pony up to get your fix. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Good said by Matt:said by hopeflicker:then maybe we should ban porn, booze, and cigs because you know, kids will be kids. It's not the responsibility of the ISP to be cops. Im sure someone is getting paid for these moves. Can you access porn (legally), buy cigarettes or booze if you are underage? No. Can you download "Asian XXX Episode 3" from alt.binaries.idonthaveagirlfriend without proving you're over 18? Yes. That is illegal. Additionally, when you download porn from newsgroups, you're still committing copyright infringement. Porn isn't magically excluded from copyright laws and protections. Once again, there are no positives to carrying the alt.binaries newsgroups ... sorry but you're going to have to pony up to get your fix. Fine, let's block the internet too because I can name a few sites that age verification is nothing more than a click away.
Try again. | |
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| | | | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Good said by moonpuppy:Fine, let's block the internet too because I can name a few sites that age verification is nothing more than a click away. Try again. Is everything black and white in your world or are you just being apathetic? The solution is not the be-all-end-all of child porn, but there are numerous benefits for not carrying newsgroups, especially the alt.binaries tree. It's a win-win for the provider. I have a hard time feeling sorry for someone if their feelings are hurt because they can't get their alt.binaries.warez fix. Almost all text newsgroups can be accessed via other means, or by paying for a very inexpensive external usenet account.
Usenet is old, outdated, and the signal to noise ratio is so low in all the unmoderated groups it's all by worthless. | |
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| | | | | | |  RombusPremium
join:2007-04-11
Columbus, OH | Re: Good said by Matt:Is everything black and white in your world or are you just being apathetic? Just going to point out how hypocritical this statement is with your first comment:
Good, alt.binary is full of nothing but porn, warez, movies, and music anyway.
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| | | | | | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Good said by Rombus:said by Matt:Is everything black and white in your world or are you just being apathetic? Just going to point out how hypocritical this statement is with your first comment: Good, alt.binary is full of nothing but porn, warez, movies, and music anyway.
What else is in alt.binaries tree that has even 1% of the traffic or number of dedicated newsgroups? All the traffic in that tree comes from criminals stealing music, movies, software, and porn.
My statement is not hypocritical in the least. It's a rather pragmatic view I would say. | |
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| | | | | | | | | hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | Re: Good said by Matt:said by Rombus:said by Matt:Is everything black and white in your world or are you just being apathetic? Just going to point out how hypocritical this statement is with your first comment: Good, alt.binary is full of nothing but porn, warez, movies, and music anyway.
What else is in alt.binaries tree that has even 1% of the traffic or number of dedicated newsgroups? All the traffic in that tree comes from criminals stealing music, movies, software, and porn. My statement is not hypocritical in the least. It's a rather pragmatic view I would say. why does it matter to you anyways? does porn, movies, and software on alt.binary really get in the way of your daily life?
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Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. | |
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| | | | | | |  technickPremium
join:2000-12-16
Wheat Ridge, CO
kudos:1 | Its amazing how ignorant your statements are. You have managed to justify the blocking of a service because of the "children". What about the folks that don't have children / kids and are not worried about these problems (I didn't breed so I shouldn't be responsible for the online safety of your little bastard child)? We get screwed over and end up paying out additional money for something that used to be included with our monthly internet bill because of bad parents.
I'm honestly tired of people like you and the idiots in charge that managed to pull this off. Think about the children! I don't care about your child or the next guys children, they are not my responsibility. The parents of the kid that manages to find porn online should be awarded the "Idiot Parents Of The Year" prize and should no longer re-produce and possible loss custody of their children (Well, probably shouldn't of reproduced in the first place).
Its not all warez, porn and music either. If you don't believe me, check out the following groups.
alt.binaries.3d
alt.binaries.anime
alt.binaries.e-book.technical
alt.binaries.freeware
alt.binaries.cd.image.linux
alt.binaries.linux.iso
alt.binaries.tv
Thats just a few...
In closing, don't make me responsible for your child's welfare on the internet. Bad things can and will happen. If you want to protect your child, don't let them even use a computer. Give them a typewriter and a SuperNES.
ISP's should charge additional money to people with Kids for "filtered" access and leave the rest of us alone.k
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"Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising everytime we fall." - Confucius
Bellsouth Free Since 10/05 - To Hell With Bellsouth
Advocatus Diaboli
Streamfire.net | |
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| | | | | | | |  QumahlinNever Enough TimePremium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state
1 edit | Re: Good said by technick:Its not all warez, porn and music either. If you don't believe me, check out the following groups. alt.binaries.3d alt.binaries.anime alt.binaries.e-book.technical alt.binaries.freeware alt.binaries.cd.image.linux alt.binaries.linux.iso alt.binaries.tv Thats just a few... Congrats, I did a header pull from the groups you listed above. The only one with no obviously noticeable copyright content is the linux groups
alt.binaries.tv - Contains TONS of copyrighted TV shows
alt.binaries.e-book.technical - Multiple books I saw are copyright and not for free distribution
alt.binaries.anime - Copyrighted material all over the place.
So what was that you were saying about the binary tree again? What reasoning can anyone provide for a ISP to waste money on keeping up a service that 99.5% of the "binary" content that people want from it they aren't supposed to be downloading anyway.
Don't get me wrong, I download tons of stuff from newsgroups. I just don't come onto forums and act like newsgroups serve a real purpose anymore or that I don't know that what i'm doing is technically illegal.
Get over it people, newsgroups are going away, they are a costly service to maintain, their primary use has turned to piracy, and for those who want legitimate access to text groups you can get it free via google or any other number of free providers.
Argue all you want, its not going to change things, its the overall plan of pretty much every ISP, the whole "child porn" thing provided the perfect excuse to finally execute it.
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| | | | | | | | | | said by technick:Its amazing how ignorant your statements are. You have managed to justify the blocking of a service because of the "children". What about the folks that don't have children / kids and are not worried about these problems (I didn't breed so I shouldn't be responsible for the online safety of your little bastard child)? We get screwed over and end up paying out additional money for something that used to be included with our monthly internet bill because of bad parents. I'm honestly tired of people like you and the idiots in charge that managed to pull this off. Think about the children! I don't care about your child or the next guys children, they are not my responsibility. The parents of the kid that manages to find porn online should be awarded the "Idiot Parents Of The Year" prize and should no longer re-produce and possible loss custody of their children (Well, probably shouldn't of reproduced in the first place). Its not all warez, porn and music either. If you don't believe me, check out the following groups. alt.binaries.3d alt.binaries.anime alt.binaries.e-book.technical alt.binaries.freeware alt.binaries.cd.image.linux alt.binaries.linux.iso alt.binaries.tv Thats just a few... In closing, don't make me responsible for your child's welfare on the internet. Bad things can and will happen. If you want to protect your child, don't let them even use a computer. Give them a typewriter and a SuperNES. ISP's should charge additional money to people with Kids for "filtered" access and leave the rest of us alone.k Please do not explain how you were raised as a child. And I am not asking.............................. | |
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| | | | | | | | | said by Matt:Is everything black and white in your world or are you just being apathetic? The solution is not the be-all-end-all of child porn, but there are numerous benefits for not carrying newsgroups, especially the alt.binaries tree. It's a win-win for the provider. I have a hard time feeling sorry for someone if their feelings are hurt because they can't get their alt.binaries.warez fix. Almost all text newsgroups can be accessed via other means, or by paying for a very inexpensive external usenet account. Apparently, in your world, everything is black and white.
This is what you said:
said by Matt:Porn is illegal for minors to access. ISP provided newsgroups have absolutely ZERO access restrictions on them. I feel it's the parent's responsibility to monitor their children, but kids will be kids and if you leave a loaded gun sitting on the table ... Now, how does it matter if kids access porn through newsgroups or the web? THERE IS NONE!!
Try again. | |
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| | | | | hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | said by Matt:said by hopeflicker:then maybe we should ban porn, booze, and cigs because you know, kids will be kids. It's not the responsibility of the ISP to be cops. Im sure someone is getting paid for these moves. Can you access porn (legally), buy cigarettes or booze if you are underage? Sure you can. How do you think kids get booze and cigs ? They do have access to this stuff already. When there's a will, there's a way.
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Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. | |
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| | | | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Good said by hopeflicker:said by Matt:said by hopeflicker:then maybe we should ban porn, booze, and cigs because you know, kids will be kids. It's not the responsibility of the ISP to be cops. Im sure someone is getting paid for these moves. Can you access porn (legally), buy cigarettes or booze if you are underage? Sure you can. How do you think kids get booze and cigs ? They do have access to this stuff already. When there's a will, there's a way. You + Point = Missed | |
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| | | | | | |  james
join:2001-02-26
CWCville USA | Re: Good said by Matt:You + Point = Missed I think you're the one missing the point. There will be child porn, kids accessing porn and so on regardless of whether or not usenet is blocked.
Blocking usenet is a stupid solution to a very serious problem (child porn). | |
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| | | | |  nklbPremium
join:2000-11-17
Ann Arbor, MI
kudos:2 | said by Matt:Can you access porn (legally), buy cigarettes or booze if you are underage? No. I think if you do it in international waters there is no age limit for that sort of thing...
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for all your Linux questions | |
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| | | | | james
join:2001-02-26
CWCville USA | said by Matt:Can you access porn (legally), buy cigarettes or booze if you are underage? No. Can you download "Asian XXX Episode 3" from alt.binaries.idonthaveagirlfriend without proving you're over 18? Yes. That is illegal. Fine, then make it illegal for people under 18 to use the internet unsupervised. Or *Gasp* make porn legal for people under 18 to watch. It's amazing that we allow kids to see people being torn apart by aliens, but we dont allow them to see a nipple.
Your idea that it's ok to block everyone's access to something just because some kids dont know what "18 and over only" means is retarded. | |
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| | | | |  KompressorPremium
join:2002-02-12
Huntington Beach, CA | Then how do kids get all of the cigarettes, booze, and drugs? How are you going to keep them from having sex and committing crimes? Marihuana and cocaine is illegal in the entire country, but you can get it in every neighborhood.
What's going to happen now is everyone is going to post the binaries in non-binary groups, which is just going to cause more chaos.
Its naive people like you who think you can fix things by banning them, but all you do is make things worse. | |
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| | | | | | | You have no clue? Who said someone show you an id is who he says he is? Do you think getting a fake ID is that difficult? Or getting someone older to get it for you?
Banning this and that is just an excuse to cut more services or in government term, more regulations. Instead of education, they play the blame game. Sadly, this is how this government works.
Back in 2004, I was in China (I know how US say China is bad and human right is terrible), the younger generation is going off the wrong track. However, instead of playing the blame game, they did something. They put much education video, broadcast national wide. Something like this will never happen with our politicians.
said by Matt:said by hopeflicker:then maybe we should ban porn, booze, and cigs because you know, kids will be kids. It's not the responsibility of the ISP to be cops. Im sure someone is getting paid for these moves. Can you access porn (legally), buy cigarettes or booze if you are underage? No. Can you download "Asian XXX Episode 3" from alt.binaries.idonthaveagirlfriend without proving you're over 18? Yes. That is illegal. Additionally, when you download porn from newsgroups, you're still committing copyright infringement. Porn isn't magically excluded from copyright laws and protections. Once again, there are no positives to carrying the alt.binaries newsgroups ... sorry but you're going to have to pony up to get your fix. | |
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| | | |  Jodokast96Stupid people really piss me off.Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2 | Maybe it could be clarified in ALL of these articles that all they are doing is dumping the stuff that is held on THEIR servers. That in effect means they are providing the content, regardless of who actually put it there. The ISP's DO have the responsibility to police that. They are not blocking access to third-party servers. It's really not very different than if it were posted on YouTube. If YouTube left it up there, they'd be just as resonsible. The difference is that YouTube would have it removed as soon as it was found or complained about. The ISP's in this case weren't doing that, and got caught by the AG. | |
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| | | | |  danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA | Re: Good said by Jodokast96:Maybe it could be clarified in ALL of these articles that all they are doing is dumping the stuff that is held on THEIR servers. That in effect means they are providing the content, regardless of who actually put it there. The ISP's DO have the responsibility to police that. They are not blocking access to third-party servers. It's really not very different than if it were posted on YouTube. If YouTube left it up there, they'd be just as resonsible. The difference is that YouTube would have it removed as soon as it was found or complained about. The ISP's in this case weren't doing that, and got caught by the AG. you have no idea what you are talking about with respect to usenet or the internet and its implementation.
You are so wrong on so many points here my head hurts and i cant bring myself to write the novel it will take to correct the mistakes. | |
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| | | | | | hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | Re: Good said by danclan:said by Jodokast96:Maybe it could be clarified in ALL of these articles that all they are doing is dumping the stuff that is held on THEIR servers. That in effect means they are providing the content, regardless of who actually put it there. The ISP's DO have the responsibility to police that. They are not blocking access to third-party servers. It's really not very different than if it were posted on YouTube. If YouTube left it up there, they'd be just as resonsible. The difference is that YouTube would have it removed as soon as it was found or complained about. The ISP's in this case weren't doing that, and got caught by the AG. you have no idea what you are talking about with respect to usenet or the internet and its implementation. You are so wrong on so many points here my head hurts and i cant bring myself to write the novel it will take to correct the mistakes.
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Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. | |
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| | | | | | Jodokast96Stupid people really piss me off.Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2 | Then please correct me if you can, as all of your posts on this seem to be nothing more than raving rants. There's nothing I hate more than misunderstanding a subject like this. | |
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| | | | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: Good Simple. They farm out their newsgroup service to third parties. Just like every other ISP. So it is not on their servers. Last I heard Highwinds was handling the majority of ISP (not a fan of Higwinds). | |
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| | | | | | | | Jodokast96Stupid people really piss me off.Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2 | Re: Good Ok, fine, but they are still selling it as their service, which does make them culpable. What brought attention to them is that they accepted responsibility for such things in their TOS, yet did nothing about it when called on it. Which put them in breach of the TOS (that so many companies will crucify customers for doing), and opened them up to the deceptive business practices. Absolutely Cuomo took the easy, high-profile way to "eliminate" kiddie porn, but he really did have Verizon by the balls. There was nothing for them to gain by fighting it. | |
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| | | | | | | | | danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA
1 edit | Re: Good NO FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST IT DOESN'T MAKE THEM LIABLE OF CULPABLE. USENET is INTERNATIONAL.
Its call safe harbor/common carrier. They are merely the conduit of the information not the creator or poster.
The US Law backs them up and has been validated in many court cases already.
Usenet providers are NOT liable for the content that traverses or resides their servers.
All this noise about this is just that NOISE. There was NO TOS violated.
IF that were the case all porn links or ANY objectionable material would be have be blocked because in some way shape or form it resides on a carriers servers/routers/proxies.
This is all grand standing. There is NO merit in his charges of these carriers providing KP to folks. Its categorically untrue but makes for good press.
These cries of "its all about the children" ring hollow these days when all these press releases after being analyzed show that insignificant amounts of alleged child porn were found. | |
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| | | | | | | | | hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | Re: Good Next we'll see ISP's that block torrent sites.
what's next? your youtube? | |
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| | | | | | | | | PittsPghPremium
join:2003-08-21
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1 | Re: Good said by hopeflicker:Next we'll see ISP's that block torrent sites. what's next? your youtube? Let's not forget the Yahoo Groups. Full of porn also.
Gmail groups are there also. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
1 edit | Jodokast96
Again, NO. They contract the third parties to provide a legal service. IF that third party does something illegal, then you have to go after them, not the ISP. This is not a good idea for the ISPs becuase it sets precedent that they are responsible for what is being transmitted over their bandwidth. That opens a huge can of worms. | |
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See 11 replies to this post |
| | | | | | said by hopeflicker:then maybe we should ban porn, booze, and cigs because you know, kids will be kids. It's not the responsibility of the ISP to be cops. Im sure someone is getting paid for these moves. No don't ban anything banning one thing leads to another thing. That's like saying let's all ride bicyble because there are reckless driver :-\
Just more restriction to take away even more of our freedom
I have to defend it cause everyone has a rights to their own opinions or interest
Saying porn is bad for kids and good for adults makes obsolutely no sense. fyi child porn is for child 
This is just ridiculous...
You guys are in control... Not the ones who try to make all decision for us.. we can resist.
Don't be fooled by there lies. See through the illusion of propaganda and hidden agenda to take control of our lives
littlebylittleuntilyouareownedlikeacow
criticalthinkingisnothardtodo...don't be easily manipulated. | |
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| | | | | so by the same logic...most terrorist happen to be moslems that use internet for terrorism/Islam...are you going to ban internet access access for all moslems? Stupid arguement at the best. | |
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| | | | | said by Matt:kids will be kids and if you leave a loaded gun sitting on the table ... And uh, in a household, who would be in a position to "leave a loaded gun sitting on the table"? Likely, the one who owns it and is responsible for it...the parent(s).
It's their fault for leaving it out there in the first place. If they would exercise better caution about their dangerous things and make sure their children are not making use of said dangers we wouldn't be having this discussion.
The internet is not dangerous; people are. When it's a child, it's the PARENT'S RESPONSIBILITY to manage that child. Instead what they do is allow laptops and televisions to do the parenting, then whine when the child does something they shouldn't. | |
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Well, if kids will be kids, then maybe the problem isn't porn, but kids. I say ban kids. Really, it's for their own protection since there are so many ways they can get into trouble. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Good I agree with the banning kids deal, lol... but isn't this banning child porn **not kids looking at porn**... banning kiddie porn is what needs to be done regardless of how... | |
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| | | | | said by Matt:Porn is illegal for minors to access. ISP provided newsgroups have absolutely ZERO access restrictions on them. I feel it's the parent's responsibility to monitor their children, but kids will be kids and if you leave a loaded gun sitting on the table ... Minors watching porn is equivalent to leaving a loaded gun on the table? I'll never understand this fear of porn. Heaven forbid a minor see a naked body other than his/her own!
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The Atheist Community of Austin
God is just pretend. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Good The prudish Victorians are still around, even in 2008. Honestly, I think violent movies are much more harmful to a young person's psyche then seeing someone naked on TV ever could be. | |
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| | | | | james
join:2001-02-26
CWCville USA | Re: Good said by roymustang:The prudish Victorians are still around, even in 2008. Honestly, I think violent movies are much more harmful to a young person's psyche then seeing someone naked on TV ever could be. We must concede that there are forms of pornography that will harm even adults though. Japanese barfing porn anyone? | |
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| danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA | DID ANYONE NOTICE THEY DID THIS 3 FECKING YEARS AGO...ANYONE
ANYONE.....!!!!!!!
THIS IS OLD NEWS AND BOGUS CLAIMS | |
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| | Jodokast96Stupid people really piss me off.Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2 | Re: Good Like I just said, what's new is that at least several of the ISP's got snagged for not taking it down, either quickly enough or at all, after getting complaints from undercover officers. All they agreed to was to keep the stuff off there, as per their own TOS, or face charges of fraud and deceptive business practices for violating that very same TOS. Their way of keeping it off? Just dump the groups completely and let the third parties worry about it. | |
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| | | danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA
1 edit | Re: Good NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO and finally NO
They are common carriers and dont have liability. The "officers" could have very easily submitted letters to the posters ISP to investigate as well as submitted a take down request which would have propagated across the net and removed the "offending" image...
this happens all the time.
Nothing to see here there is NO merit in their allegations toward these carriers or usenet or web.
Existing laws on the books already give them the right to ask for materials in violation to be removed. | |
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| | | | Jodokast96Stupid people really piss me off.Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2 | Re: Good said by danclan:The "officers" could have very easily submitted letters to the posters ISP to investigate as well as submitted a take down request which would have propagated across the net and removed the "offending" image... You are right there, they could have. But that's not what they were looking into. They were looking into complaints of Verizon not removing the content (or blocking it), when they said they would. They made themselves liable. That's why all they were looking at fighting were deceptive business practice charges, and not distribution, possesion, or anything else dealing with the kiddie porn. | |
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| | | | | danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA | Re: Good said by Jodokast96:said by danclan:The "officers" could have very easily submitted letters to the posters ISP to investigate as well as submitted a take down request which would have propagated across the net and removed the "offending" image... You are right there, they could have. But that's not what they were looking into. They were looking into complaints of Verizon not removing the content (or blocking it), when they said they would. They made themselves liable. That's why all they were looking at fighting were deceptive business practice charges, and not distribution, possesion, or anything else dealing with the kiddie porn. no you are incorrect on all levels.
they were NEVER liable. ALL traffic on usenet servers unless GENERATED by VERIZON users is common. The AG can bitch all they want about what may be sitting on verizons servers but until they actually file a legal letter asking for it to be removed and why its all pandering.
I have NEVER seen or heard from ANYONE that any AG ever submitted a take down notice to verizon.
You are wrong about and TOS violation as well as TOS applies to Verizon's customers not to Verzion itself. | |
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|  mrchrisOut and aroundPremium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | I may get free access to newsgroups but I would NEVER wade through that filth called child porn. Fucking gross if you ask me. I also have to occasionally deal with two younger brothers (ages 12 and 16, the latter much more) who also have internet access. | |
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| | | | Re: Good quote:
I would NEVER wade through that filth called child porn. Fucking gross if you ask me.
Um..so is porn. 
Guess you haven't heard about Max Hardcore pissing off the Feds by getting his girls to act like 6 yr olds and dress up in pigtails?
If Max could get away with it..he'd star underage kids in a heartbeat if the price was right.
»www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jun/06···cenity-/ | |
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| | | AT&T has also shut off my amateur radio group and probably others I haven't looked at yet. They're down to 29,000 groups from close to 100,000. But sex sites still abound. They seem to have shut off 2/3 of their groups randomly.
Monkeys could copulate with footballs better than AT&T is handling this. | |
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 evilghostPremium
join:2003-11-22
Springville, AL
1 edit | Boo hoo Cue the pirates complaining that they can't steal software/music/video from alt.binaries.
This is a good move. | |
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 kapilThe Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL | If it's to protect the kids... ...it must be good. 
It's not the ISPs responsibility to monitor content...however illegal it may be.
Frankly, I don't understand why AOL and ATT want this monkey on their back! They have no legal obligation to monitor traffic...but they want to. What lawyer let them sign up for additional liability? Idiots!
And before the whackjobs get bent out of shape....just because I'm against filtering does not automatically mean I'm for child porn.
cum hoc ergo propter hoc syndrome much?
Then again, people who make this a crusade aren't really known for correcting logical fallacies, are they?
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|  fuziwuziNot born yesterdayPremium
join:2005-07-01
Atlanta, GA | Re: If it's to protect the kids... said by kapil:Then again, people who make this a crusade aren't really known for correcting logical fallacies, are they? So very true. You may even be accused of being "unAmerican", now, as well. 
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I think computer viruses should count as life. I think it says something about human nature that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. We've created life in our own image.
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1 edit | said by kapil:Frankly, I don't understand why AOL and ATT want this monkey on their back! They have no legal obligation to monitor traffic...but they want to. I wouldn't go so far as to say the ISPs "want to" as you say. They were threatened by the state of NY and rather than fight a costly fight and one where the public would back Cuomo, they gave in. Even if they won, it would be a Pyrrhic victory because they would be portrayed by the state as backing child porn.
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| | | i believe it's to add to marketing... we just saw a commercial a couple days ago that said something about privacy filters and helping parents monitor their kids internet access with fastaccess or whatever | |
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brawneyPremium
join:2002-03-02
Frederick, MD | Good People will complain about censorship... but the guy who owns the news stand on the corner can decide that he doesn't want to provide child porn so why can't the ISP? | |
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| | | Re: Good In a perfect capitalist scenario, he could. However, if the county passed a law saying he was the only person allowed to operate a newsstand and he made massive profits on that, do you not see where certain potentially objectionable or subversive content, should be made available?
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 yockTFTCPremium
join:2000-11-21
Miamisburg, OH
kudos:3 | What I don't understand... ...is why they're so intent upon removing access to the material from the internet and not relentlessly attacking the people who post and produce it. They seem so eager to keep people from seeing it, why not make such heroic efforts to save these victims from further exploitation?
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Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
Lynch All Liars | |
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| MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: What I don't understand... said by yock:...is why they're so intent upon removing access to the material from the internet and not relentlessly attacking the people who post and produce it. They seem so eager to keep people from seeing it, why not make such heroic efforts to save these victims from further exploitation? In this day and age of anonymous proxies, it's very hard to figure out who posted what. Hell, every third party Usenet provide proudly advertises on their index page that they don't even store the IP of the poster in logs on their drives. Some go so far as to detail that they only keep it in memory and it's wiped every X amount of seconds. If that's not a bright neon welcome sign for pirates and child pornographers, I don't know what is. | |
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| |  hitachi369Embrace Your RightsPremium
join:2001-10-03
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:4
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: What I don't understand... said by Matt:Hell, every third party Usenet provide proudly advertises on their index page that they don't even store the IP of the poster in logs on their drives. Some go so far as to detail that they only keep it in memory and it's wiped every X amount of seconds. Which Usenet provider would that be? | |
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| | | said by yock:...is why they're so intent upon removing access to the material from the internet and not relentlessly attacking the people who post and produce it. They seem so eager to keep people from seeing it, why not make such heroic efforts to save these victims from further exploitation? They do relentlessly pursue the producers and purveyors of child porn. But they also know that if they don't catch them all, the fact of the internet's ability to widely disseminate content even from a few makes prevention of distribution near impossible.
So, they recruit the distribution channels to do their part in limiting distribution of the child porn.
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 DoctorDoomTroll hunterPremium
join:2006-09-19
Becket, MA
3 edits | The baby with the bathwater quote:
... (T)he company would disabled all those with addresses starting with "alt.binary," which is where child-porn images are often exchanged. But not all such groups have child pornography.
I use AthenaNews for my Usenet access. Looking over the group directory, there are 12 "alt.binary." groups listed. There is no child porn group.
If they block the thousands of "alt.binaries." groups, they will kill the vast majority of porn groups, and the vast majority of file-sharing groups of all kinds. E.g., my old-time radio programs come from "alt.binaries.sounds.radio.oldtime" and "alt.binaries.sounds.radio.oldtime.highspeed".
IAC, all the ban would achieve is groups being renamed to evade the filters, e.g., "alt.binaires.", "alt.alt.binaries", etc.
Why ISPs should bother with the Usenet is another matter. It's arguable that 99.999% of Web users never heard of the Usenet. Those that know what it is have many options for accessing it apart from their ISPs. | |
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 extreme50Formerly TwoKDialupPremium
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI | The real problem is... The real problem is not porn on usenet, it really doesn't harm anyone. If you don't like it, don't seek it out.
The real problem is the sickos that force helpless little kids to have sex. The only real solution is to catch and euthanize them.
You can block all the content you want but the pedophiles will still be out there doing what they do.
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| danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA | Re: The real problem is... that and they will just go further underground with the images making more difficult to track...encryption and other forms of transmission are already taking over from areas like usenet and web since ssh/ssl are now more prevalent and easy to implement. | |
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| brawneyPremium
join:2002-03-02
Frederick, MD | said by extreme50:The only real solution is to catch and euthanize them. Right on! | |
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| | It's hilarious Really this is just funny. Cuomo is getting political credit for doing basically nothing.
The ISPs have wanted to remove the newsgroups from their machines just to save money but never did because it would piss off their users. Along comes Cuomo and says remove it and tell them it was because of me so he gets the heat from the users, but in the process gets political credit for "protecting" the children by doing nothing.
I can't speak for all ISPs, but at least with Verizon FIOS users, the blame for the "children" getting access to these groups rests solely on the parents. To gain access to the Verizon newsgroup server, the owner of the Verizon account has to make a user account for the person and click a box that says "enable newsgroup access". If a parent gave unrestricted access to the newsgroups to their kids it's their own dam fault. Verizon didn't have to remove the newsgroups, they already had the facilities built in to let the parents block their kids from them if they wanted. Verizon removed the newsgroups because they wanted to remove them, and with Cuomo out there wanting to take the credit for it, it gave Verizon the perfect chance of removing them and saying it wasn't our fault it was NYAG Cuomo that "made" us do it.
AFAIK that leaves Cablevision as the last NY company that has newsgroups as part of their service. Which is also funny as their service has no way to restrict access to the news server. You have full access to all the groups as long as you are on their IP block. So unlike the Verizon case where it's the parents fault for giving the kids access, this one could be Cablevision's fault since they don't give the parents a way to restrict access to them. | |
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 TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | Hello Vote For Me
Smiling Andrew |
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|  ShamayimI already have a Messiah.Premium
join:2002-09-23 | Re: Hello Vote For Me Two things to remember about NY AG Cuomo:
1. He is a moderate Democrat, not a conservative Republican.
2. He is NOT a 'Bible thumper.'
Thought these two facts worth noting, just to stave off the haters
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Who is Jesus? and Why it matters (to YOU).
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| | | | Re: Hello Vote For Me Also dont forget he is the son of the guy that ruined NY and Long Island for years | |
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 Frankis chillingPremium
join:2000-11-03
somewhere | aol blocking newsgroups? wait what?
didnt aol drop usenet access like years ago? I remember reading an article on it somewhere.
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| danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA | Re: aol blocking newsgroups? yes 3+ years ago and it was due to cost cutting and not porn... they didnt want to maintain the server infrastructure.
This is just grand standing.
Again all this about less than 100 images found on less than 100 groups....go figure... | |
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 JSYPremium
join:2000-04-05
Elmhurst, NY | Mixed Feelings I'll tell you why I am really mixed on this. It's not so much of what's legal or illegal, but rather the fact that once again, the internet is being shaped into what government or higher authorities what us to see. This easily opens the door for ISPs to go ahead and start blocking any material they deem to contain questionable material - well beyond alt.binaries.xxx What's next? You already saw it expand in this article - it went from child pornography to everything in alt.binaries.
And you all must be out of your mind if you think this "solves" anything. If alt.binaries are blocked around the word - you don't think that people won't just create new newsgroups to hold this material? Now, that is going to be pretty because you'll start to have IPS now have to determine what needs to be blocked rather than a blanketwide alt.binaries block. What if binaries pop up in different named groups? I mean, right now - binaries exist in a lot of groups that are not part of the alt.binaries realm. Will ISPs start to govern those? What about the same material that are on websites? Someone above said you might as well block the internet because the age verification crap doesn't work and that is only for those sites that even have that, and using the logic of these ISPs and the AG, you'd have to start considering that. Age verification doesn't work. Congress enacted that law that restricted internet gambling (more or less) because age verification was a crock - and that was with credit card verification.
The fact is that if you open the door, you give the opportunity for more blockage and if you don't think that is a problem that we'll ever see, then you need to get your head out of your ass and think outside the box and how this affects the whole internet rather than just thinking that this affects child pornography and the RIAA/MPAA.
The only reason Cuomo is all up on this is so that he can make his mark. Spitzer had his mark with the financial industry. Cuomo needs his. | |
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| | | Re: Mixed Feelings Jeez, they have child porn NEWSGROUPS!?!?!?
Meh... I'm glad I havn't found everything on the internet yet =/ | |
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| | danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA | Re: Mixed Feelings said by Poetique:Jeez, they have child porn NEWSGROUPS!?!?!? Meh... I'm glad I havn't found everything on the internet yet =/ they dont.....they (the ny AG office) found images of child porn on some 66 news groups....there are NONE dedicated to child porn and in fact there is VERY aggressive policing by usenet posters of child porn.. they go out of their way to drag out all personal information behind posters and make it public... | |
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bgraham
join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY Reviews:
 ·Verizon VoiceWing
·Verizon FiOS
·VOIPo
| This Whole thing is just Vote Getting. First of all, dumping newsgroups entirely stops people like myself accessing a large number of technical groups such as Microsoft and Adobe groups. I know Verizon took the easy route and killed all newsgroups except a few weird ones instead of taking the time to remove only the porn and warez.
There was a whole piece of rubbish in our local newspaper today about how Cuomo is single handedly getting rid of porn on the internet.
All it means is that now I have to pay $10 to access Microsoft and Adobe newsgroups through a third party. Believe me there are a lot more unsavory newsgroups available through third party pay services than through ISP's.
I am sure that any pedophile, pirate and porn addict is already using a third party anonymous service. If mommy does not want little Johny (or daddy) looking at porn or downloading MP3's on the internet there are a lot better ways to do it other than killing newsgroups. Mommy had better think again before believing Cuomo has actually done something. | |
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| | at&t, aol child porn why isn't child porn totally blocked on the net by all hosts and service providers? | |
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| danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA
1 edit | Re: at&t, aol child porn do you have a program that can identify with 100% accuracy what is child porn and what is not?
Do you have a way to scan encrypted files and flag them as child porn?
Do you have a way to do this around the world on all connections?
Does the rest of the world care what the US does? | |
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| | EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | Re: at&t, aol child porn Wrong. The only possible answer for why this was already done is because ISPs hate children. Why won't anyone think of the children????? | |
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| | | danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA | Re: at&t, aol child porn said by EPS:Wrong. The only possible answer for why this was already done is because ISPs hate children. Why won't anyone think of the children????? lol | |
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| | | | | |  Re: at&t, aol child porn
aren't you guys disgusted by this tactics to restrict your sharing rights?
they always try to get ya on the sensitive things and all it takes is a misinformed person and they got ya. | |
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ShamayimI already have a Messiah.Premium
join:2002-09-23
3 edits | Reduced service. Reduced fee? After removing subscriber-paid Usenet service, AOL and AT&T will be correspondingly reducing their ISP customers' monthly fee by... how much again?
I must have missed the dollar amount in the article.
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Who is Jesus? and Why it matters (to YOU).
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| | | Re: Reduced service. Reduced fee? said by Shamayim:After removing subscriber-paid Usenet service, AOL and AT&T will be correspondingly reducing their ISP customers' monthly fee by... how much again? I must have missed the dollar amount in the article. $.50 or $.25 because that is all it probably costs.
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| | MadtownPremium
join:2008-04-26
Madera, CA | Re: Reduced service. Reduced fee? said by fAcEtIOUs:said by Shamayim:After removing subscriber-paid Usenet service, AOL and AT&T will be correspondingly reducing their ISP customers' monthly fee by... how much again? I must have missed the dollar amount in the article. $.50 or $.25 because that is all it probably costs. That is nothing, might as well charge us the same price as before. | |
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| | ShamayimI already have a Messiah.Premium
join:2002-09-23
4 edits | said by fAcEtIOUs:said by Shamayim:After removing subscriber-paid Usenet service, AOL and AT&T will be correspondingly reducing their ISP customers' monthly fee by... how much again? I must have missed the dollar amount in the article. $.50 or $.25 because that is all it probably costs. That's one way to look at it. Now let's get real and multiply that by millions of subscribers each month. Bottom line: this is a HUGE annual windfall for AOL and AT&T.
For services no longer performed yet.
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Who is Jesus? and Why it matters (to YOU).
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thumbs down from:
iam x 
| It's the end of the world ZOMG!!!! Child porn!!! Terrorists!!! Pirates!!! Atheists!!! Subversives!!! We need to shut down the internet now!!! Everyone knows none of these things existed before the internet.
BTW, I would venture to guess that most of so called "child porn" these days is teen girls on webcams and taking pictures of themselves. We need to execute these camwhores now!!! | |
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Reviews:
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| The probem here The problem I have with all who are crying censorship is the idea one has the freedom to infringe on the right of others. This is a contradiction. If really support the freedom to distribute child rape go right ahead, I hope you will get caught and please do drop the soap in jail. | |
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|  GlobalMindDomino Dude, POWER Systems GuyPremium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL | Re: The probem here said by Scatcatpdx:The problem I have with all who are crying censorship is the idea one has the freedom to infringe on the right of others. That's right. Generally it goes something like "your rights end where someone else's begin."
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TheGlobalMind.com | Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? | Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. Ralph Waldo Emerson
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| | Whack-a-mole: Round 2... So, by going after alt.binaries, in an effort to eliminate a non-existent child porn issue on Usenet, the boneheaded folks who came up with this scheme have just pushed the child porn business even deeper into the recesses of the internet where they are much harder to track.
Seriously, the people who come up with these "solutions" must not think about the consequences of their ideas.
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 RallyBah HumbugPremium
join:2000-10-27
Astoria, NY | What's next? Maybe shut the internet down, because in all reality isnt that the most 100% safest way? | |
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| Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: Servers No, becuase almost all the ISPs have farmed out their new servers years ago to third parties. It will save them the cost of this service and the cost of the bandwidth (assuming a significant portion of those using will not use a private news server). But you have the right concept, just to save money. | |
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 dnoyeBFerrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI |  Woodworking
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| | | Re: Woodworking said by dnoyeB:Does this mean I won't get to see pics from folks on those networks on alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking anymore??? Depends. If they really removed "alt.binary" it won't make a difference. If they removed "alt.binaries" you won't see pics from those ISPs subscribers there unless they use an alternate news provider. | |
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| | | said by dnoyeB:Does this mean I won't get to see pics from folks on those networks on alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking anymore??? heh heh he said wood. That's probably one of those child porn groups they don't want you to see, anyways! You should know better, AOL sure does! | |
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| | | | Re: Woodworkingsaid by jgantert:said by dnoyeB:Does this mean I won't get to see pics from folks on those networks on alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking anymore??? heh heh he said wood. That's probably one of those child porn groups they don't want you to see, anyways! You should know better, AOL sure does! child porn does not exist my friend
its a hoax
a pretext to shut off server
a pretext to scare you into submission
into losing your freedom to share files | |
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| | | QumahlinNever Enough TimePremium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state | Re: Woodworking said by attsbcisgay:said by jgantert:said by dnoyeB:Does this mean I won't get to see pics from folks on those networks on alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking anymore??? heh heh he said wood. That's probably one of those child porn groups they don't want you to see, anyways! You should know better, AOL sure does! child porn does not exist my friend its a hoax a pretext to shut off server a pretext to scare you into submission into losing your freedom to share files Wrong, its absolutely none of the above and I assure you that child porn on NG's does exist, but not nearly at the rate that it exists on services such as limewire.
It has nothing to do with your "Freedom" it has to do with the expense of operating a costly service that is used by less than 5% of your userbase and out of that 5% only 0.5% are using it for actual text/newsgroup purposes, the rest are using it to get copyrighted material. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Woodworking said by Qumahlin:It has nothing to do with your "Freedom" it has to do with the expense of operating a costly service that is used by less than 5% of your userbase Oh, I agree completely, btw. It was just a great opportunity for a Beavis & Butthead tie-in.
I'm with Verizon, and have switched to a 3rd party provider, and have been enjoying unfiltered usenet for the last few weeks. I didn't realize how much I have been missing! I wonder if the usage has actually gone up since the change? I know my usage has. | |
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