supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL | Are DSL customers switching to FIOS?
That is the question. If not, those numbers really suck. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
|  Fios not all conquering
The latest numbers show that Fios doesn't deserve all the hype that it gets as a service that is causing cable competitors to quake in their boots. Most of the Fios broadband customers are upgrades from Verizon DSL service and not conquests from competitors.
And only 20% of Fios customers are taking Fios TV. Not bad; but not great either.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? |
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Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state
1 edit | You can see...
what a little bit of fiber optic will do to a company. Makes it grow! At least it shows Verizon is making an expensive investment but it's paying off. |
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rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA | actually it only looked good on the wireless segment. if you consider the big picture which is how many land lines they lost compared to overall growth of broadband and tv subs. it doesnt look good at all. |
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
 ·Hollis Hosting
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
| NE sale excluded
Total broadband connections were 8.3 million, a net increase of 54,000 over the first quarter 2008. This includes a decrease of 133,000 DSL-based Verizon High Speed Internet connections, which was more than offset by the increase in FiOS Internet customers. The 8.3 million is an 11.5 percent year-over year increase, excluding broadband connections in 2007 in the three New England states that have since been spun off. Highlight added Wonder how including the sale of VT/NH/ME would have changed the numbers?
I think it is way too early to measure the effect of FIOS. We are early in the rollout stage and Verizon is really just getting its act together bringing FIOS TV to market. Something often lost in the fiber vs copper debate is that operating expenses (Opex) for fiber is much lower then copper. As Verizon moves away from copper there will be substantial savings in maintenance expense.
/tom |
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tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Hollis Hosting
·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Fios not all conquering
said by TKJunkMail  : And only 20% of Fios customers are taking Fios TV. Not bad; but not great either. Verizon is still in early stage rolling out FIOS TV. I just skimmed the highlights but I don't think FIOS TV is available in all markets yet. Since FIOS TV is new that 20% either came at the expense of Cable or switching from over the air.
Be interesting to know Verizon's internal plans and whether or not they are on target with FIOS rollout both deployment cost and take rate.
/tom |
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got the day off
@windstream.net | reply to tschmidt
Re: NE sale excluded
1.6 million landlines sold if 8% had dsl, well there you go |
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Corydon
Cultivant son jardin
Premium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to rody_44
Re: You can see...
said by rody_44 : actually it only looked good on the wireless segment. if you consider the big picture which is how many land lines they lost compared to overall growth of broadband and tv subs. it doesnt look good at all. Well, to be fair, getting people to upgrade their services to more TV channels and faster internet speeds in the current economy is going to be a tough sell, so Verizon really is having to deal with the bad luck of really getting their service off the ground at a time when many people are a lot more focused on the bottom line rather than the speed of their connection.
Unfortunately for Verizon, this helps cable more than them, since cable can sell VoIP on the basis of price, while Verizon is selling FiOS on the basis of quality.
--
"Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too." |
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Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY | reply to rody_44
The big picture doesn't include land lines. That is a losing proposition and Verizon knows it. Their growth is in FIOS and wireless. |
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DoRight
join:2007-07-20
Mechanicsburg, PA | The pressure is on
And that is why I was let go.. I had one of the top areas in the region and was still let go because they were not satisfied with the numbers in my market... Oh well.. To note I worked for a contracter and not VZC.. |
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EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | reply to Pathfinder
Re: You can see...
I think Verizon has the right idea- use the dwindling landline profits to invest in businesses more likely to survive in the long term. |
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decifal
join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN | Will the expand?
My question is this. Will Verizon ever expand into other states or do they have an agreement with the deathstar on where they do business? I'd love to see Verizon come to TN and buildout their services!!.. |
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ebubman
join:2002-01-17
Enola, PA
·Comcast
 ·Vonage
| would not mind getting verizon dsl
we have ccast isp which is pretty snappy but pricey. would not mind shifting over to dsl to retain broadband but to save circa $12/mo over comcast. bad part is, per the verizon website, the dsl availability stops about 50' from our townhome. my neighbor 2 doors over can get vzon dsl. so it goes..... |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs: 
| The problem facing verizon is this..
While I've certainly given them kudos for stepping up to the ftth plate..financially..they've got to make this work.
It is SO expensive to rollout and, coupled with the loss of landline customers, if they didn't have wireless to prop up their numbers, they'd be in a world of hurt.
It's going to be very tough to continue to count on wireless because that market is getting all but saturated these days and, if they're going to cannibalize their dsl customer base to grow fios, that's not going to be very much help to them.
The real risk here is that ultimately, if they don't grow their profits enough..they're not going to be able to price fios competitively. Right now, they're giving the deals to try to lure cable customers away, but if those deals vanish, it's really going to turn into another story like Rambus versus DDR was..meaning perhaps technologically fios was superior to a fiber cable network..but it winds up not mattering in the market place because cable..particularly with a docsis 3.0 upgrade..was good enough.
It's also interesting to note that AT&T had a very strong quarter with Uverse subscriber growth...on par in fact with fios's. Some could certainly interpret that as being AT&T had the right idea all along with their lower cost approach.
Time will tell whether that was a fluke or not..and may simply have been they now have such a large area where uverse is built out..that a jump in numbers was inevitable.
Given the fiber to the vrad approach..it's also much easier for AT&T to "pass homes" with uverse than it is for fios to say the same.
Anyways..should be interesting to see how it all plays out.
We haven't seen the cable co's hand yet..and how docsis 3.0 will impact all of this. If they don't do something about the price..I don't think it will do much. Not much interest IMHO for 150.00 residential hsi connections.
If however..they took it down to something close to where things are now pricewise..and simply made the new standard 50Mb speeds across cable networks..I honestly think both verizon and AT&T's entire businesses could be at risk.
A triple play at those speeds..at todays prices would be devastating for the telco industry.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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Big Pete
@qwest.net
| Even if they are cannibalizing their own DSL subs, the maintenance cost savings on the network is huge. Verizon can't get rid of the copper fast enough (ie Fairpoint deal). If FiOS wasn't paying itself off, then they would have stopped building FiOS a long time ago. Right now, its still full speed ahead. Also, from what I understand, the 2nd quarter usually has the lowest take rate of the year. With NYC FiOS numbers being added this next quarter I think they will be back to 250K adds a quarter or more for the next 2 or 3 quarters. |
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Dolgan
Premium
join:2005-10-01
Sun Prairie, WI
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to tschmidt
Re: NE sale excluded
quote:
I think it is way too early to measure the effect of FIOS. We are early in the rollout stage and Verizon is really just getting its act together bringing FIOS TV to market. Something often lost in the fiber vs copper debate is that operating expenses (Opex) for fiber is much lower then copper. As Verizon moves away from copper there will be substantial savings in maintenance expense.
Spoken like a true Verizon Manager/Executive who is toeing the company line. The leadership of our company has failed to live up to its Corporate Resposibilty to its customers. They are more concerned about the shareholders and maintaining their obscene bonuses/stock options. They continue to cut Employees, fail to maintian existing OSP, refuse to fix constantly bugged software we use everyday, and still will not get the IVRU fixed after 3 years of constant employee/customer complaints. What? You don't believe me? Here are some examples.
1] In order to meet 2nd qtr "budget requirements" they had 2 tech buyouts in less than 8 weeks. This is heading into the summer which is the busiest time of year{due to storms/service moves}. This lack of workforce has caused severe delays in repair times and service order completions. We still have repair tickets/service orders sitting in queues that were due in June and we now at the end of July. Wonder how many of these customers are "Net Promoters" of Verizon?
2] The 2 main systems we use in the EVRCs are CAD and Storc. Both systems have severe slowdowns/lockups almost every shift. Storc has had a known memory leak for over 2 years that IT can not/refuses to fix. CAD databases are not large enough, so anytime they get large amounts of tickets it will slowdown. Furthermore, CAD is also used by the FSCs and will not always properly identify the difference between FIOS and Copper accounts--causing customers to be continuosly misrouted to the wrong support center.
3] The IVRU has been, and still remains a worthless piece of sh!t that misdirects customers, locks them in 20+ minute loops, and is a constant source of customer/employee complaints. The latest flavor of finger pointing is that "it is the customer's fault they were misdirected/locked in a loop". Nothing like blaming your customers for the poor system that was implemented by Verizon.
4] Verizon does not develop their employees, or engage in ongoing training. The previous carrier I worked for had 8 weeks classrom training and 4 weeks of taking calls in a sheltered environment before hitting the floor. There was also monthly training, and in slow times there would be further training/refresher courses on system usage and troubleshooting. Verizon has 1 week of classroom training, 1 week sheltered and then you hit the floor. There is no way that is sufficeint training for someone off the street with no Telco experience. There is no continuing training at Verizon as they would rather give out "surplus time"{non-paid time off} during slow periods.
5] Instead of fixing chronic issues Verizon choses to simply credit customer accounts in hope that they will be appeased and stay with us. Whoop-De-Do a whopping $25 LEC credit sure would keep me loyal when I am calling in 15+ times a year and my service goes out when a squirrel pisses on a broken Pedestal. They have supposedly implemented a "Code Rescue Program" that is supposed to resolve chronic issues at any cost and any time of day. However, they failed to notify the DRCs/NDCs who refuse to dispatch the techs necessary to implement this successfully.
You need to stop believing the Corporate spin that Verizon spews forth and look at what is actually occurring. |
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Dolgan
Premium
join:2005-10-01
Sun Prairie, WI
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | reply to Big Pete
Re: The problem facing verizon is this..
quote:
If FiOS wasn't paying itself off, then they would have stopped building FiOS a long time ago.
FIOS is still not showing any profits, and is being paid for by the other divisions within Verizon. FIOS is not projected to start bringing in profit{ROI} untill sometime in 2010. |
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Big Pete
@qwest.net
| quote:
FIOS is still not showing any profits, and is being paid for by the other divisions within Verizon. FIOS is not projected to start bringing in profit{ROI} untill sometime in 2010.
Yeah, its called a capital investment, and more than likely its being paid for with increased debt, not from other divisions. The fact that they started building FiOS in like 2003 and its already going to start showing profits in 2010... on a $23B investment? That's pretty damn good... Verizon continues to proclaim that they are ahead of all their projections with FiOS, including ARPU and penetration rate. Once they start making a profit on the fiber, the margins are a hell of a lot higher too, considering lower maintenance costs. |
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Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Corydon
Re: You can see...
When I do a cost compare between FIOS and Comcast, FIOS wins even if I get more DVR's and the 20/5 package, by nearly $30's. Comcast refused to re-up me on the $99 triple play deal (for the, ahem, 5th time) so they've left me little choice in any case. If you can get the $99 triple play deal still, then Comcast still has some cost advantage.
The only reason I'm hesitant to switch is I've read a lot about the trouble with the MS FIOS DVRs. Since this is what my wife will complain about loudest, it gives me pause. |
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Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY
| reply to Rick
Re: The problem facing verizon is this..
The Rambus analogy is an interesting perspective. Outside of VoD, today's internet content seems to move ok over a $20 1Mbps line. Existing and proposed caps would seem to wipe any concern for living up to the need for VoD over HSI.
What I understand of FIOS leads me to believe it is the most capable of handling large amounts of VoD users, but it would seem even FIOS wont be able to look away if alternative VoD suppliers cut into their own FIOSTV; meaning I don't think they could avoid caps. Shoot, even Time Warner could potentially offer up VoD over competitor's HSI lines. |
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