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Comments on news posted 2008-08-09 12:03:17: Portland had high hopes of being one of those cities where citywide wireless networks might actually work but those hopes did not pan out. ..

page: 1 · 2

hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
reply to patcat88

Re: leave it up

most of the time the supermarket has a multi-year lease on it that they still pay for. But i wouldn't tear it down. Re-lease it. But the problem is that the ones that have the multi-year leases will sublease and then what more than what the building is worth.

There are many like that in Northwest Ohio. Especially an old Foodtown store that wants $5.00psq the building is over 10years old! No way is anyone going to pay that. Walmart wants almost the same for their old store. But they also renew the lease every time it comes up to expire due to they can keep out any competition like Target that wanted it.



RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

said by hottboiinnc:

most of the time the supermarket has a multi-year lease on it that they still pay for. But i wouldn't tear it down. Re-lease it. But the problem is that the ones that have the multi-year leases will sublease and then what more than what the building is worth.

There are many like that in Northwest Ohio. Especially an old Foodtown store that wants $5.00psq the building is over 10years old! No way is anyone going to pay that. Walmart wants almost the same for their old store. But they also renew the lease every time it comes up to expire due to they can keep out any competition like Target that wanted it.
The solution to the later problem is a "Use it or Lose it" clause in the Lease renewal terms. If they have left the property vacant at renewal time, they can be optionally be denied the right to renew the lease (or they can be allowed to renew for the normal period with the a "cut short" provision such as the one in my next sentence). There can also be a possible clause that can allow the owner to foreclose on a vacant/abandoned property at the anniversary date (ie: The lease can be terminated at the next anniversary of the signing after the end of the property being vacated for a set period of time).

As to the sub-lease situation, this can be handled by a a ban or restrictions in the Lease.

EPS4

join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA
reply to laserjobs

Re: Salvage

If they could get $600,000 for salvage, then the city would make money by paying just $60,000 to remove them, wouldn't they?



bobjohnson
Premium
join:2007-02-03
Orlando, FL
reply to laserjobs

Yeah, no shit i will fly over there and take them down for free... Give me a call portland!!



sapo
Cruising Down Memory Lane
Premium
join:2002-09-16
Sacramento, CA
kudos:1
reply to EPS4

Typical Government job, probably will sell it to someone for really cheap and they make lots of money off it as usual. I see it all the time.



insomx
Premium
join:2003-01-26
Canada
reply to a333

Re: If these cities want to offer something for free...

said by a333:

And you're telling me it's free? Ad-supported? Taxpayer-supported? Deployed in areas that already get DSL/cable?
No ads. It is taxpayer supported though. All of the city is wired for DSL and Cable, but the wireless is a nice add-on for portable devices and such. It's also good enough in some areas that people don't bother signing up for DSL or Cable.


a333
A hot cup of integrals please

join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US

@ john- Well, then it's definitely a waste of taxpayer money in my book. If its purpose is to provide 'mobile broadband', or a REPLACEMENT for cable/DSL, it's an epic waste of tax money. The least the (the city) could've done is use ads to at least make up for part of the cost of operating the network.

@ patcat- No amount of amplification/antennae imporvements can reasonably make citywide WiFi feasible. The reason? Doing either requires basically drowning out nearby WiFi signals, which I'm sure wouldn't lead to a pleasant reaction from WiFi network owners in the vicinity.........
I mean, sure, THEORETICALLY, you can do that. Heck, pump the power up to something like 1 Watt, and boom! You've got ~ 600-1000 ft coverage. Question? Does it sit particularly well with local residents/businesses? I highly doubt it would.
Peace,
a333



bear73
Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies
Premium
join:2001-06-09
Derry, NH
reply to EPS4

Re: Salvage

said by EPS4:

If they could get $600,000 for salvage, then the city would make money by paying just $60,000 to remove them, wouldn't they?
no, they won't. because they can't sell them for a profit in most cases.
perfect example of this: military computer upgrades. Every time US military upgrades their tech, they have to send it to DRMO. and DRMO will "sell" the old computers, printers, monitors to : first, other DOD services, second, other government agencies, third, public education, fourth, auctioned off by the pallett-full.
--
If ya gotta go, Go with a SMILE!
»www.thereligionofpeace.com/


Mercurybird
Premium
join:2004-06-24
Hooks, TX
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Windstream

How to do a business plan...

Let me see... I think I can do it.

Oh! Looks like I can't- Oh well!- I only lost tens of thousands of dollars. No sweat!

Business plan? Backup capital? An exit strategy?

If you build a better mousetrap they'll beat a path to you door right? Ha Ha... define better mousetrap!
--
You're an American. You get a free pass, but nobody rides for free.


hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
reply to RARPSL

Re: leave it up

Generally companies do not wait for the lease to come up for renew. They renew them well before the time due to always ensuring they have an office/store or what ever. Major companies do this even with vacant buildings. It keeps them from losing them.



Glaice
Brutal Video Vault
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY

Too much?

The price is too high for remove...what is costing such a high price to REMOVE IT? Jeez.



freeze
I'm not even Greek
Premium
join:2001-05-13
Ohio

Is it possible MetroFi will take the salvaged routers/repeaters as stated in the original contract? (That way they don't have to pay for taking them down AND making a profit!)

Otherwise, it seems like a pretty good deal if you get to keep what you take down...



insomx
Premium
join:2003-01-26
Canada
reply to a333

Re: If these cities want to offer something for free...

a333- It'll only drown out one of the 12 frequencies....



viperm
Carpe Diem
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Winchester, CA

1 edit
reply to a333

Its obivious you dont have any clue as to WHAT you are talking about. Amplifying the AP signal with an amp does nothing but create MORE noise and also pulls in MORE noise and creates headaches! The problem is NOT with the Node its with customer laptops they only have a small if your lucky 15-30 MW card which cant talk back to an AP sitting on a pole 100Ft away!

The easiest way to circomvent this is to use Ants that have some higher gain to amplify the signals coming from the client, buy a higher power WifI card for the laptop or use things like small reapeaters that customers can buy to boost thier signal back to the node and also then that repeater acts just like I said a repeater in that local area bossting signal for everyone.

We have a hotspot system at an airport that WE designed that goes 1/4 mile with NO amplification and it picks up users in the terminals just fine! we charge for the service and were making roughly 10k per month off it till other WiFi companies came in then it became a pricing war.

The other option is to make the WIFI fixed for some users where you sell and or install a canopy or tranog CPE on theier rooftop and pull cat 5 down to thier location just like we Wisps do with out any issues. Design is key and if you dont do it right and cost effectivly you WONT make it work.

WiFi works if designed proerly that is the KEY Wimax is no different if you think your going to get miles and miles of range from WIMAX your on crack. The same thing applies its the laptops that are the weak link!

said by a333:

@ john- Well, then it's definitely a waste of taxpayer money in my book. If its purpose is to provide 'mobile broadband', or a REPLACEMENT for cable/DSL, it's an epic waste of tax money. The least the (the city) could've done is use ads to at least make up for part of the cost of operating the network.

@ patcat- No amount of amplification/antennae imporvements can reasonably make citywide WiFi feasible. The reason? Doing either requires basically drowning out nearby WiFi signals, which I'm sure wouldn't lead to a pleasant reaction from WiFi network owners in the vicinity.........
I mean, sure, THEORETICALLY, you can do that. Heck, pump the power up to something like 1 Watt, and boom! You've got ~ 600-1000 ft coverage. Question? Does it sit particularly well with local residents/businesses? I highly doubt it would.
Peace,
a333


alanhdsl
Premium
join:1999-10-09
Phoenix, AZ
reply to Glaice

Re: Too much?

That works out to about $150 each. I can easily see two guys and a bucket truck being budgeted at that. Some locations along busy streets will require traffic control (barricades, lane restrictions) which will also increase the cost.


hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
reply to bear73

Re: Salvage

Thats the military. Doesnt mean cities work the same way. Many cities actually sell their surplus through an auction they set up themselves.



a333
A hot cup of integrals please

join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US

1 edit
reply to viperm

Re: If these cities want to offer something for free...

Those points are moot... how many people will actually go buy these 'higher power' WiFi cards for laptops, along with the associated high-gain antennas? I never said it's ain't possible. Just putting some common sense out there, that compared to WiMax, WiFi just doesn't cut it when creating a citywide network. It's like providing broadband to homes using cat5. Just doesn't work, or we'd have 100 Meg ethernet HSI by now.
BTW, never said WiMax goes 'miles and miles'. Just saying that, in urban environments, WiMax is just the better choice, as each tower can cover a lot more distance than even the best-designed WiFi, thus reducing costs for network operators. Sure, customers can get better WiFi cards and antennas, but if you're going to give subscribers new equipment, might as well give them WiMax equipment and reduce your own costs.
Finally, I don't even support cities doing this, especially when they're wiring areas that already get DSL and cable. I mean, BB isn't a utility, so the city shouldn't be responsible for it. They can get muni WiFi/WiMax as part of their franchise agreements with cable MSO's/telcos. But to spend/waste taxpayer money on stuff like this is just idiocy at its finest....
Peace,
a333


scgops

join:2008-01-10
San Mateo, CA
reply to alanhdsl

Re: Too much?

It could easily cost more than that if the city requires a licensed electrician to perform or supervise the disconnections from the light pole electrical power.



lordie
been there, done that..

join:2001-11-13
Sunnyvale, CA

Metrofi in Sunnyvale ca

Last week the MetroFi equipment had disappeared from all Sunnyvale Ca light polls. I guess they had the money to do that..
--
www.litman.com