nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
 ·Comcast
| this too shall not pass
the incumbent carriers will do their utmost to either kill this outright or monetize it by doing what T-mobile did.
a vibrant, competitive market in voice is the last thing the incumbents want.
and they certainly don't want all bits to just become data - how can they justify charging 1000x the actual cost for texting if that happens? |
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baineschile
2600
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI | When all is Wifi....
We will have a phone/pda/videorec/camera/laptop/mobiletv/radio/gps thats the size of a wallet to carry around with us. The only 2 questions are; will the display be holographic, and will it be a device we carry, or one thats sewn into our skin.... |
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CUBS_FAN
Next Year Again..
join:2005-04-28
Chicago, IL | Extra life for Vonage
Vonage could take advantage of this technology(pending any patent infringement's  )to stay alive. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| easy to kill voip
Its very easy to kill VOIP. AFAIK, VOIP looks like alot of small packets very frequently. Drop a good % of these sub-MTU packets and you will kill any real time protocols. Non-real time protocols such as youtube, HTTP, non-live streaming video, Remote Desktop don't run into any problems since they usually buffer until they can send MTU sized packets as needed, but VOIP sends small packets to decrease latency. I've heard national Telco ISPs doing this to block "illegal" VOIP. Another idea is buffering packets by IP address together at a router also damages VOIP, and send them as a pulse to the customer. More advanced techniques would involve introducing artificial jitter to the packets.
All a cellprovider needs to do is some QOS on the T1 backhaul for some nice targeted QOS. There is a reason why EVDO has shitty upload speeds over the old network which had double or triple ping times and jitter:D |
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chronoss2008
Premium
join:2008-03-29
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
1 edit | The numbers
The number of mobile VoIP users is expected to grow to 100 million in 2010, from 7 million last year, generating $33.7 billion for these companies. Wireless carriers are expected to generate $700.7 billion in sales of voice services this year,
thats a quote form the above
7 million gets them now 33.7billion
thats a lot a revenue:4814 PER USER
yet whats worse is what they project:
100 million users and 700BILL
OR 7000$ per user
if they get this much revenue shouldn't it be free
if all we /you are paying is 30-50$ /month
360-600/year
NOW I SEE WHY SUPPORT IS SHITTY ACROSS THE BOARD
WHO IS THE REST OF THE REVENUE?
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Also when all these beams are flying around look at the more and more studies that show placing your head next to the cell phone is bad and hten tell me that , an egg in a microwave on high is OK , when we are effectively doign the same thing with WiFi with you and I. |
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Halo5
join:2000-07-20
Dayton, OH
clubs: 
| Greed?
That can be the only reason why more cell companies don't embrace WiFi/UMA/VoIP.
You pay your $45/mo. for however many minutes, and then use one of the above. The cell company's network doesn't have to deal with your yacking and you get great reception. They get their money and don't have to deal with your load on the network and you get great call reception. Seems like a sweet deal.
Oh wait, but then there is a much lower chance you'll go over your minutes and be stuck with an overage bill, which is something that cell carriers rely on heavily I'm sure. I'm guessing on average the amount of an overage bill is much more that $10/mo. per person. |
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jaminus
join:2004-10-14
Arlington, VA
| reply to patcat88
Re: easy to kill voip
I have very little knowledge about VoIP network behavior, but couldn't you simply write an app that "padded" packets with a bunch of garbage to the point that the the packet size was similar to that of HTTP streaming video? Or would that exceed the capacity of most 3G networks?
To me, jitter is the only sure-fire way of killing VoIP. |
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EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA
| reply to Halo5
Re: Greed?
The big problem is that voice services are expensive in part because traditional switched networks are expensive to build and maintained. Packet-switched IP networks are much, much cheaper, but carriers can't depend on them for most customers. Note that 4G networks (LTE, WiMax) are intended to change all that and, once sufficiently deployed, replace ALL voice with VOIP-type services, which will save the cellcos a ton of money in infrastructure costs. |
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djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
 ·PHONE POWER
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to jaminus
Re: easy to kill voip
Jitter can be compensated for by adding a small delay (buffering). You probably can't artificially induce enough jitter to make conversing impossible without seriously impacting other types of services as well.
--
AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.
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jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
 ·surpasshosting
·ViaTalk
| reply to patcat88
Hi, welcome to the thread! We're talking about using your cell phone that has Wifi built in to connect with a public hotspot and bypass your carrier's network completely. Thank you for following along!  |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
3 edits | Using local DATA plans to make VOIP international voice calls
said by jester121  :Hi, welcome to the thread! We're talking about using your cell phone that has Wifi built in to connect with a public hotspot and bypass your carrier's network completely. Thank you for following along! And not JUST WiFi. They are looking at products that will use local wireless DATA bytes to make INTERNATIONAL voice calls using VOIP products:
Skype, the eBay (EBAY)-owned service used by more than 338 million people to make free PC-to-PC calls, later this year plans to release a new product called "Skype for your mobile" that will let customers use local wireless minutes to make international calls. And that would take big bites out of wireless providers most lucrative traffic.
...offered through Apple's iPhone App Store. Truphone is one such tool. When used on Nokia (NOK) e61 and Nokia n95 smart phones, the British-developed service lets users make calls for a few cents a minute using a data plan rather than wireless voice minutes. Calls to other Truphone customers using Nokia N-series or E-series devices are free. So in theory, a user could save money by purchasing an unlimited data plan in tandem with the lowest-priced voice plan necessary. --
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? |
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voipdabbler
join:2006-04-27
Kalispell, MT
| I think the prediction on VOIP volume is exaggerated.
Like most studies, I think this one is exaggerating its findings for sensationalism so it will get publicity (like on this site). I don't see mobile VOIP being adopted in that number. I'm a tinkerer and have been using VOIP in place of a landline for the past 5 years. However, most people I know, including younger, technically-inclined people don't want to deal with the periodic hiccups of VOIP (either hardware or software-based dialing programs). Furthermore, most cellular plans these days don't distinguish between long-distance and local calls, unlike landlines. Yes, international is different, but the vast majority of consumers aren't calling internationally.
Moreover, most US carriers only heavily subsidize phones that they have dumbed down not to connect to WIFI. The average consumer doesn't buy a smartphone; they don't want to spend that kind of money (even if they're a younger person whose only phone is going to be cellular). (Yes, I'll hear the Apple fanboys shouting iPhone at the top of their lungs, but the percentage of people carrying that phone is still rather limited in the US since GSM networks in the US aren't very widespread--think large urban areas only.) |
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EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | Also, the iPhone platform is highly controlled, considering they took that tethering app off to save at&t's TOS, any VoIP app is certainly in trouble if it threatens the Death Star's bottom line. |
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Zoder
join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL | reply to chronoss2008
Re: The numbers
Good point. Obviously those numbers aren't right unless they include all wireless carriers worldwide. |
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | reply to patcat88
Re: easy to kill voip
why mess with the packets? the cell companies make much more money off overcharging for data then the 5,000 minutes they let people have.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
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speaker
@comcast.net
| ridiculous
how is the carrier of the cell phone service going to charge the user for using someone else's network and bandwidth? thats worse than the $2 fee you pay when you dont use your bank's atm. it honestly costs the cell phone provider nothing, unlike the situation with the bank.
the key here is the phone itself. my phone, the HTC Touch, can only use sprint's network so they dont worry about me. but if I had a pda-type device that could connect to any carrier or wifi spot, and the device is independently manufactured, what can they do?
thats the future: independent devices connecting to whatever available network through third party software and hardware (as necessary).
sure the phone co will try and bill you left and right and fight tooth and nail until the bitter end, but eventually we will be able to make phone calls from our own homes using our own paid-for wifi, OR that of another person/group which has either freely shared their network or is legally allowed to resell it.
what next, ISPs that forbid people from allowing friends to use their wifi network? user-agreement forms that require you to agree only certain specific persons can use the network? etc etc?
let them try to stop this ... in the end, just find another provider or device and move on. resistance is futile. |
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Freedom4All
@ntl.com
|  VOIP will WIN
Dispite the best efforts of the GSM Operators to halt use of VoIP, Mazingo Ltd. has produced a GSM+VoIP Smartphone in which both radios are independently operable, meaning VoIP calls can be made via 2.4Ghz WiFi Access Points and GSM over the standard quad-band networks. Naturally access to all of The Internet is also available.
VCC [Voice Call Continuity] is also enabled so that a VoIP call will automatically and seamlessly switch to the GSM frequencies if the caller moves out of the WiFi area. For spec. see mazingo.tv. |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| LTE will be voip
LTE will see phones using VOIP as the transport method. These phones will be fully ip enabled so using the older encoding methods would be a step back. Even today many phones operate "Transcoder free" where most phones are able to communicate with the other end without any translation being done in the switch.
Voip is a natural evolution of that.
--
Mac Chatter
»www.macchatter.net |
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JeffinSeattle
@cobaltgroup.com
| Cell Phone Providers are hot spot providers
Sooner or later the Cell phone providers are going to realize that they are only another hot spot. If cell phone providers want to compete they MUST realize that they are becoming broad band providers same as the rest. Their advantage is that they are wireless and if I can have true broad band via that versus a land line then I’ll buy their service. Cell phone carriers will continue to be useful in rural areas where wifi spots are rare and installing cable is costly.
Their "special" place in the sun is being eaten up by every corner shop that offers 'free' wifi access. At home you'll run your own SIP server and connect to whatever you want via your broadband connection. Linksys already makes such a product (Linksys PAP2-NA Analog Adapter).
Packet shaping won't affect that either via laws that rule in favor of a 'flat' network or hacks that avoid the packet filters and shaping attempts. |
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