 | | Baffle them with BS Standard corporate procedure.
Why do something when you can fake it? | |
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 | | | Re: Baffle them with BS the name of the game is confuse, confound and obfuscate.
that's why they all really like "bundles" - makes it nearly impossible to compare prices between competitors (assuming there is a competitor) | |
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| |  en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Baffle them with BS Whether its sales or politics... confusion and using similar names to sell an inferior product DOES work... for a while
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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| | | | | Re: Baffle them with BS Pretty much. When most people still are afraid to use a computer beyond the basics, they rely on companies or techie friends for their information. Pick 90 percent of people over the age of 40 and ask them questions regarding computers. Most would have a hard time answering anything beyond the routine (checking email, browsing, etc). I'm sure this even applies to the younger crowd too who could care less about internet, beyond myspace. | |
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| | | |  FlukePremium
join:2008-06-24
Plainfield, CT
kudos:2
 ·Vonage
| Re: Baffle them with BS said by jc100: Pick 90 percent of people over the age of 40 and ask them questions regarding computers. Most would have a hard time answering anything beyond the routine (checking email, browsing, etc). I'm sure this even applies to the younger crowd too who could care less about internet, beyond myspace. HEY! Im 46! So i guess im in the 10% :P I think Americans are smarter then the media gives us credit. What I dont like is we are flooded with so much advertising that stretches the truth so far that as a whole we are used to it. | |
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| | | | | | said by jc100:Pretty much. When most people still are afraid to use a computer beyond the basics, they rely on companies or techie friends for their information. Pick 90 percent of people over the age of 40 and ask them questions regarding computers. Most would have a hard time answering anything beyond the routine (checking email, browsing, etc). I'm sure this even applies to the younger crowd too who could care less about internet, beyond myspace. ORLY?
I know some 60 year olds that know more about the internet than some so-called experts.
You love generalizations, don't you? | |
|
| | | Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| said by en102:Whether its sales or politics... confusion and using similar names to sell an inferior product DOES work... for a while sometimes for years. | |
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| | | | en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Baffle them with BS California's propositions end up this way ALL the time.
Those for and against propositions claim similar issues for or against. In the end, most end up confused, thanks to spinning the facts, and you may end up with something that's actually 'good' or 'bad' being voted in or out for all the wrong reasons.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
|
 DaneJasperSonic.NetPremium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:7
1 edit | Consumer confusion All of our networks today have fiber behind them at some level. It's clear that they're trying to mislead the customer.
Coax does have a lot of potential - it's yesterday's technology, but the bandwidth capacity is huge. In a Hybrid Fiber Coax (HFC) deployment, where they've brought the fiber into the neighborhood and just delivered the final leg on coax, that can be shared with a smaller number of end-users.
Next generation DSL products such as ADSL2 and VDSL bring a lot more bandwidth into the home with faster technology and/or by moving the aggregation point closer to the home. But, it's clearly not fiber to the home.
That said, the bottom line should be speed, not what it's carried on. The choice of network topology and investment level sets the stage for the carrier's future, but today, what matters to the consumer is what they can buy, at what price. What color the connector is (orange, black or grey) isn't as important.
-Dane | |
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| EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | Re: Consumer confusion Indeed- you might as well call DSL fiber-optic internet too, since the COs are fed by fiber. By this definition "fiber-optic internet" rapidly becomes meaningless, since all internet traffic uses fiber-optics SOMEWHERE (Fiber-optic Satellite Internet!) | |
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| | | | Re: Consumer confusion Might as well call dial-up fiber too since once on the backbone it too uses fiber  | |
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| | |  Smith6612Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:21 | Re: Consumer confusion Naw dial-up is too slow to even be called fiber It's called "anywhere'net" | |
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| | | | EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | Re: Consumer confusion I don't get this argument that technology type=speed, really, you could offer a 56kbps network on a FTTH connection if you really wanted too...  | |
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| | Reviews:
 ·Armstrong Zoom ..
| Yes, but a fiber-coax hybrid is fiber to probably your block or at least close. Fiber at the COs is a lot farther away than the fiber from the cable company.
In addition, that coax carries a lot more bandwidth than a pair of wires.
I agree with the poster, fiber is right out there, the cable companies can do what they want in the future. For example, if they wanted to launch full fiber deployment they could probably do a small city in 6 months because the major work is done, the fiber run to the neighborhood.
Run fiber to the home and cable from the same place a mile away. What will make the difference is what is beyond that mile. All the talk about fiber to the home is just great, but really it is not needed yet by cable companies. | |
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| | | NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:4 Reviews:
 ·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: Consumer confusion said by keyboard5684:Yes, but a fiber-coax hybrid is fiber to probably your block or at least close. Sounds like Uverse!
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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|  JRW2R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.Premium
join:2004-12-20
La La Land
kudos:5
·Optimum Online
| said by DaneJasper:All of our networks today have fiber behind them at some level. It's clear that they're trying to mislead the customer. I agree..
Coax does have a lot of potential - it's yesterday's technology, but the bandwidth capacity is huge. In a Hybrid Fiber Coax (HFC) deployment, where they've brought the fiber into the neighborhood and just delivered the final leg on coax, that can be shared with a smaller number of end-users.
This is where you lose it. While they COULD do it this way, the don't, shared bandwidth is oversold so during "peak" it drops like a depth-charge!
Next generation DSL products such as ADSL2 and VDSL bring a lot more bandwidth into the home with faster technology and/or by moving the aggregation point closer to the home. But, it's clearly not fiber to the home.
And does not offer anywhere near the speed potential that FTTH can and does.
That said, the bottom line should be consistent speed, not what it's carried on. The choice of network topology and investment level sets the stage for the carrier's future, but today, what matters to the consumer is what they can buy, at what price. What color the connector is (orange, black or grey) isn't as important.
-Dane
Fixed it for you, but that is a BIG part as to why cable is such a poor competitor, as configured now, to FTTH, and does not have the upward ability that FTTH offers.
--
RIAA/MPAA... Bite me!!!!
In constant search for intelligent life on Earth! | |
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| | NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:4 Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: Consumer confusion said by JRW2:Next generation DSL products such as ADSL2 and VDSL bring a lot more bandwidth into the home with faster technology and/or by moving the aggregation point closer to the home. But, it's clearly not fiber to the home.
And does not offer anywhere near the speed potential that FTTH can and does. I'd have to agree with that assessment. FTTN, which is what ADSL2+ and VDSL are riding on in most deployments, can extend the competitive live of copper pair, in comparison with coax. It is not a substitute for FTTH.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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| | Fiber for your Cable "We got Fiber in our diet." "We got Fiber between our two switches." "...and yes ARE regular, too." | |
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| | ...And most Americans would gladly believe it If Americans can believe that their freedoms are being taken away for their own *freedom*....If they can believe that all the woes that the country is facing is in their heads......if they can be made to believe and live that socialization of pain and privatization of gain is a good thing. If they can re-elect a dismal failure of a sorry excuse of a human being.....I am pretty sure that this is far more honest fraud. | |
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 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 |  Absolutely
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| | | Re: Absolutely said by Matt:It is absolutely false advertising. All advertising is "false" to the extent that they play up the positives of the product and not the limitations. As long as they don't flat out lie, then the FTC isn't going to do anything about it.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
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| | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Absolutely said by fAcEtIOUs:said by Matt:It is absolutely false advertising. All advertising is "false" to the extent that they play up the positives of the product and not the limitations. As long as they don't flat out lie, then the FTC isn't going to do anything about it. I agree, but it's pretty obvious they are blatantly lying. Just because a portion of their network is fiber optic, doesn't mean it's fiber optic internet.
To be honest, regular users don't give a damn how they get their internet, so this probably only pisses us geeks off.
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Linux Haters Unite! | |
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| | | | | Re: Absolutely said by Matt:Just because a portion of their network is fiber optic, doesn't mean it's fiber optic internet. If you want to use that as the argument though, then FIOS isn't technically "fiber optic internet" either. Since the light is electrically turned into coax/ethernet/telephone and sent into the house. No fiber ever connects to customer equipment.
As long as no one is saying they have FTTH/P when they do not, they are not false advertising. | |
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| | | |  Anonymous_AnonymousPremium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
·RoadRunner Cable
·Comcast
·Time Warner VOIP
1 edit | Re: Absolutely said by nukscull :said by Matt:Just because a portion of their network is fiber optic, doesn't mean it's fiber optic internet. If you want to use that as the argument though, then FIOS isn't technically "fiber optic internet" either. Since the light is electrically turned into coax/ethernet/telephone and sent into the house. No fiber ever connects to customer equipment. As long as no one is saying they have FTTH/P when they do not, they are not false advertising. dial up is fiber optic internet cause it goes over fiber someware along the line | |
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| | en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Exactly... a gasoline burning car a 'zero emissions' car.
So they come up with a new name 'partial zero emissions' (how do you have partial zero?). Just another form of bending the truth/reality for sales purposes. Is it illegal? No
Is it misleading? Hell Yeah! Does it work ? You better believe it. They wouldn't do it if it didn't work.
Just because a portion of the network to the neighborhood uses fiber optics, they can claim that its 'fiber optic technology'. Is it FTTH? NO! They'd be sued selling FTTN as FTTH.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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| | | | | Re: Absolutely said by en102:Exactly... a gasoline burning car a 'zero emissions' car. So they come up with a new name 'partial zero emissions' (how do you have partial zero?). Ever see a 0% financing deal where it was actually 0.9%? It's not 1, so it must be 0! | |
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| | | | en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Absolutely That would be 'pzev' financing... Partially zero
Something pretending to be zero that isn't. Clean emissions != zero emissions.
quote:
Definition: PZEV is an acronym for Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle. PZEVs are modern vehicles with advanced engines equipped with cutting-edge emissions controls. PZEVs run on gasoline, yet offer extremely clean emissions with zero evaporative emissions. However some PZEVs don't concurrently offer outstanding fuel mileage, with the majority of them falling in line with current model year averages.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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| KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | most customers cant tell a Motorola cable modem from a DSL Modem from a Linksys router. Fiber is the current catchphrase in marketing for data services. in another 10 years it might be lasers or subspace radio. trust me the marketing departments will find technobabble to throw at customers in TV ads.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | keep in mind that marketing doesnt lie, they just "Enhance" the truth. yea it had to be said.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | 100Mb is 100Mb This is stupid. Both DOCSIS and and FIOS are capable of doing 100Mbps+. I would love to hear a reasonable explanation of how 100Mb fiber is any faster than 100Mb copper or how 100Mb copper is faster than 100mb fiber.
Fanboys this is your chance.  | |
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See 15 replies to this post |
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 PhilRojo SolPremium
join:2001-06-11
Camarillo, CA
kudos:2 | There's nothing false about it... But it is misleading. | |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Pathetic quote:
Fiber optics without the hassle ...
What hassle?
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"At the moment of conception." | |
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| | | Re: Pathetic Oh, I don't know, maybe the hassle of having to install an entirely new outside plant and being home sometime between noon Thursday and 5 PM next year to have a VZ tech come by your house and install a new network interface?
Naw, not a hassle at all. | |
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| | | | Re: Pathetic You can get a weekend FiOS installation appointment. I was quoted 8-noon on a Sunday and the tech showed up at... 8!
Know your subject matter before you discuss it. Your stupidity and/or agenda won't be as clear as a result. | |
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| | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by probboy:Oh, I don't know, maybe the hassle of having to install an entirely new outside plant and being home sometime between noon Thursday and 5 PM next year to have a VZ tech come by your house and install a new network interface? As if the cable company doesn't have similar issues.
If Verizon told me they'd rip up my yard to get me FIOS, then by all means, I am all for it.
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"At the moment of conception." | |
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| | thefoxboxgo fox box goPremium
join:2004-10-14
Irving, TX | said by probboy:Oh, I don't know, maybe the hassle of having to install an entirely new outside plant and being home sometime between noon Thursday and 5 PM next year to have a VZ tech come by your house and install a new network interface? Naw, not a hassle at all. The reason is takes longer is because they want to get it right and add battery back-up. Heaven forbid they need to install an amazingly fast and new technology and actually need to add equipment to your home to do so!  ! | |
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 ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4 | Not technically "false"... But sure can be misleading...
If you remember, someone tried to debate the point before...
»Why on Earth... | |
|
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| the time warner way from time warner; we've had fiber optics for years.. just never though we needed to offer outstanding service or a low price, or truly unlimited data, or non-throttled service, or lots of hd channels, etc, etc, etc. telephone companies call this milking the technology for all its worth (until it withers on the vine).
now that the footprint actually overlaps with a provider that can deliver such services, the cable company doesn't really look so good anymore. so, they'll just have to compete on price. after all, $30-40 for each service when bundled in a dual or triple play is a good deal in 2008-- especially when prices for everything else are going through the roof! just don't expect the moon & stars on the delivery of the services... it is what it is... shared/throttled node infrastructure internet, voip phone, & digital cable with a mediocre mix of sd & hd channel lineup...
However, now that Verizon is able to build FTTP/FIOS in the heart of TWC's footprint (nyc), they might actually have to get off their ass and deploy docsis 3.0 | |
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|  HarddriveProud American and Infidel since 1968.Premium
join:2000-09-20
Phone Room
kudos:2 | Re: Cox advertising in the RI market area yeah, that sign south on 95 just past the big blue bug used to be a Cox Triple Play billboard. my how they are losing customers in RI due to FiOS.
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I have come to realize that God doesn't want to hear from me anymore. | |
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 RickPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT | 100 Billion Dollars... over the last 10 years.
That's what the cable co's have reportedly spent on their fiber/coax networks.
I'd certainly say that more than entitles them to talk about their fiber as well in their ads.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! | |
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See 15 replies to this post |
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 Doctor FourMy other vehicle is a TARDISPremium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX | If they did this in the UK... Advertising Standards (the UK equivalent of the FTC) would
be all over them with fines and other sanctions for misleading
ads. But compared to their UK equivalent, the FTC is spineless.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
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See 7 replies to this post |
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| | Why Run FTTH When You Can Pretend You Do? As soon as Verizon gets to 150+- national HD channels by the end of the year, it can start marketing the content instead of the delivery system. FiOS was a stupid name anyway.
Wouldn't be surprised to also see a big push for 1080p VOD.
People don't care that much about the plumbing. They do care that they are getting the best possible picture for their HD TV. | |
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| | Just want fastest internet at the lowest price I honestly don't care FIOS. It's too expensive IMO. However, I still want them to deploy in NYC. This will drive up competition and hoping cable will increase their speed as well. FIOS is great, but expensive. I don't want to local for a contract. Contract is anti-competitive. Once your grace period is over, they don't even treat you as human. | |
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 jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA | Honest!
We have fiber without the hassle! |
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 SYNACKJust Firewall ItPremium,Mod
join:2001-03-05
Venice, CA
Networking
Virtual Private Ne..
Netgear
ZyXEL
| What hassle?
"fiber optics without the hassle".
Well, A few years ago, my cable (then comcast, later changed to TW), had that annoying problem where it disconnected at random times, but the signal was OK most of the time. It took 5 service calls and about 3 months of 'hassle" until the last guy finally decided to climb on the pole, only to find a corroded connection. All others before just swapped out equipment and tinkered around without ever getting a ladder.
When verizon placed fiber in my neighborhood, I was the first on my block to get it. No more hassle. | |
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RJ44
join:2001-10-19
Nashville, TN | Old news? Maybe I'm nuts, but didn't this exact same article run on DSLR a couple of months ago? | |
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| | | | Re: Old news? Yeah, but it gives Rick something to do. | |
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| | haha in new york city time warner runs ads that fios have yard trauma..haha! how many of us in manhattan have yards? we live in apartments the size of closets. | |
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 ctceoPremium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN | New Name We should just call it FTTAJOMHAAUDFTAJIMH or Fiber to the area just outside my home at an unspecified distance from the actual jacks inside my home. | |
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| | | How is that different from FiOS? FiOS's fiber turns to copper, coax and/or Cat-5 at the interface on the side of your house. So could that be FTTOOMHBISCTAMJIMTVAC or "Fiber To The Outside Of My House But Is Still Copper To All My Jacks Including My TV and Computer".
There are arguments to be made for FiOS but fiber to the jack is NOT one of them. | |
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| | | | Re: New Name let's try to diff the Fios and Cable... Well when you leave in an Old A$$ apartment building with the Coax of the late 80s, your ultra High HD TV and your Ultra Symmetric DOCSIS with Ultra high DB Noise will get $HIT... where as FIOS to the so called Front LAWN, and a high quality Coax from Monster will give an ultra Sleek low DB Noise where you can run as close to a Gig if they let ya!!! | |
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