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Comments on news posted 2008-09-05 14:24:08: We've always known that Comcast has long had an invisible usage limit, because our users have been complaining about it for the better part of a decade. ..

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Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium Member
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

Matt3

Premium Member

Yep... business as usual

This is not surprising at all and exactly what most people thought was going on.

inferno4
join:2008-07-06

inferno4

Member

Re: Yep... business as usual

Comcast is a complete joke... Just upgrade your old CRAPPY equipment and let the customers use as much bandwidth as we want! UPGRADE YOUR OLD CRAPPY EQUIPMENT COMCAST AND WE WOULDN'T HAVE THE STUPID BANDWIDTH PROBLEMS!!

Also... comcast get rid of your entertainment sections, I see you are selling movies directly from your site. Start thinking about upgrading your old crappy system before you start making sites that sell movies... there are other better sources for that type of content... UPGRADE YOUR OLD CRAPPY EQUIPMENT COMCAST!!

splat1622
@direcpc.com

splat1622

Anon

Re: Yep... business as usual

no they need to expand to new customers first before they add more speed and bandwidth to currant customer's.using more than 250 GB is completely ridiculous.they ought to just cut you off

all i get is 200mb a day if that's all you had you would appreciate the 250 cap

NoOneCares
join:2000-09-16
Portland, OR

1 recommendation

NoOneCares

Member

Re: Yep... business as usual

It always amazes me how some people want to dictate how I use my connection! I'm the one paying for it, NOT YOU!

SpaethCo
Digital Plumber
MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

SpaethCo

MVM

Re: Yep... business as usual

said by NoOneCares:

It always amazes me how some people want to dictate how I use my connection! I'm the one paying for it, NOT YOU!
Until you start using more than the break-even amount of bandwidth on shared infrastructure. Than my bill starts to go to subsidize your usage.

It's like welfare, only we subsidize the greedy instead of the needy.

NoOneCares
join:2000-09-16
Portland, OR

NoOneCares

Member

Re: Yep... business as usual

Then it sounds like the company need to improve it's shared infrastructure.

Fortunately I'm with an ISP that doesn't cap.

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

Robert

Premium Member

Re: Yep... business as usual

said by NoOneCares:

Then it sounds like the company need to improve it's shared infrastructure.

Fortunately I'm with an ISP that doesn't cap.
This post made me chuckle. Is your ISP Earthlink?
elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA

elray to SpaethCo

Member

to SpaethCo
said by SpaethCo:

said by NoOneCares:

It always amazes me how some people want to dictate how I use my connection! I'm the one paying for it, NOT YOU!
Until you start using more than the break-even amount of bandwidth on shared infrastructure. Than my bill starts to go to subsidize your usage.

It's like welfare, only we subsidize the greedy instead of the needy.
Um, isn't that already standard practice at all cable companies?

I have to pay for your ESPN, even though I would never watch it, if I want to get any cable-tv channels at all.

Not that anyone "needs" cable TV or internet.

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium Member
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

Matt3

Premium Member

Re: Yep... business as usual

said by elray:

Not that anyone "needs" cable TV or internet.
Try telling that to me when I don't get my weekly Mythbusters fix.

splat1622
@direcpc.com

splat1622 to NoOneCares

Anon

to NoOneCares
well keep going over 250gb and you wont have too worry about it anymore,because you might lose it

yolarry
join:2007-12-29
Creston, WV

yolarry to splat1622

Member

to splat1622
Damn Give me some of that 250GB cap.

My cap only goes 375MB a day

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 edit

3 recommendations

FFH5 to Matt3

Premium Member

to Matt3
said by Matt3:

This is not surprising at all and exactly what most people thought was going on.
And the "WE THE PEOPLE" crowd are now getting what they demanded - an announced & marketed hard cap. And instead of 1,000/mo of the very worst abusers getting booted, Comcast gets to boot many many more within a couple months of Oct 1(new rules give an extra 30 days beyond 1st month before termination). So say around Dec 1 or thereabouts, we can start reading all the woeful stories about how "I was not an abuser, but just an advanced user backing up my terabytes of disk storage".

Moral of story: "Beware of what you wish for - you may get it."

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium Member
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA

1 edit

hopeflicker

Premium Member

Re: Yep... business as usual

said by FFH5:
said by Matt3:

This is not surprising at all and exactly what most people thought was going on.
And the "WE THE PEOPLE" crowd are now getting what they demanded - an announced & marketed hard cap. And instead of 1,000/mo of the very worst abusers getting booted, Comcast gets to boot many many more within a couple months of Oct 1(new rules give an extra 30 days beyond 1st month before termination). So say around Dec 1 or thereabouts, we can start reading all the woeful stories about how "I was not an abuser, but just an advanced user backing up my terabytes of disk storage".

Moral of story: "Be honest with your customers in the first place."
fixed for YOU

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

1 recommendation

Karl Bode to FFH5

News Guy

to FFH5
Yes Tom, it's consumers who demand clarity and accountability that are the problem. Clearly.

RadioDoc

join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL

1 recommendation

RadioDoc

Re: Yep... business as usual

Now come on Karl. You know that customers are just a necessary evil, to be handled like cattle.

This makes me proud to be a Florida taxpayer. Go get 'em Bill.

Caddyroger
Premium Member
join:2001-06-11
To the west

Caddyroger

Premium Member

Re: Yep... business as usual

Guess who will be paying the fine.

dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI

dnoyeB

Member

Re: Yep... business as usual

Where there is sufficient competition, Comcast. If there is not sufficient competition, those citizens are hosed anyway.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

3 edits

FFH5 to Karl Bode

Premium Member

to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode:

Yes Tom, it's consumers who demand clarity and accountability that are the problem. Clearly.
It wasn't the average consumer demanding it. They weren't affected and were not aware of any problem. It was the well above average abusers demanding the clarification and a hard cap. Well now they get to pay for what they wanted and got.

S_engineer
Premium Member
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

S_engineer

Premium Member

Re: Yep... business as usual

said by FFH5:

said by Karl Bode:

Yes Tom, it's consumers who demand clarity and accountability that are the problem. Clearly.
It wasn't the average consumer demanding it. They weren't affected and were not aware of any problem. It was the well above average abusers demanding the clarification and a hard cap. Well now they get to pay for what they wanted and got.
i disagree. I think the above average users were complaining because some were getting access stopped on their "unlimited" contract. While this is clearly a case of "be careful what you wish for", Comcrap was wrong for selling unlimited contracts to people when they had no plans for a truly "unlimited" access.
I also think that this is just an excuse to introduce metered billing. With applications changing and becoming bigger in size, this is the new business model for the telcos/cablecos.
Now maybe if we had a politician paying attention to this, maybe regulations can produce what "competition" clearly is not....a decent broadband policy!

NOZIREV
join:2008-07-10
New Bedford, MA

1 edit

NOZIREV

Member

Re: Yep... business as usual

???

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to S_engineer

Premium Member

to S_engineer
said by S_engineer:

Now maybe if we had a politician paying attention to this, maybe regulations can produce what "competition" clearly is not....a decent broadband policy!
The end result of what you are suggesting is not just regulation of TOS & transparency, but price controls. Because if that isn't part of the regulations, then the service providers will just raise prices to cover the costs of all the other regulations. And then the real whining to the politicians will commence.

S_engineer
Premium Member
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

S_engineer

Premium Member

Re: Yep... business as usual

said by FFH5:

said by S_engineer:

then the service providers will just raise prices to cover the costs of all the other regulations. And then the real whining to the politicians will commence.
This company will raise the rates anyway. Do you actually think it won't be the customers paying this fine ?
If unchecked, these abuses will continue and when caught, The AG might as well just fine the customer.

NOZIREV
join:2008-07-10
New Bedford, MA

NOZIREV to S_engineer

Member

to S_engineer
what is a "a decent broadband policy!" in your eyes just curious since you seem to be a fairly intelligent human being? 25 TB's for 42.95$??

S_engineer
Premium Member
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

S_engineer

Premium Member

Re: Yep... business as usual

said by NOZIREV:

what is a "a decent broadband policy!" in your eyes just curious since you seem to be a fairly intelligent human being? 25 TB's for 42.95$??
there are ways to push the stagnation we're in. In addition, there are also ways to enforce the contracts the businesses have with their customers. My suggestion is not fines (because the consumer pays that), but go after licenses. It's not the consumers fault that Comcrap doesn't like the contract that they themselves wrote!
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2 to S_engineer

Premium Member

to S_engineer
.. got a contract for us to read where you or anyone was guaranteed "unlimited broadband" for life?

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

3 edits

Karl Bode to FFH5

News Guy

to FFH5
It wasn't the average consumer demanding it. They weren't affected and were not aware of any problem. It was the well above average abusers demanding the clarification and a hard cap.
A strawman point and completely irrelevant. A significant number of customers, the Florida Attorney General and the FCC have proven Comcast was lying to customers, yet here you are, claiming whatever happens is those customers fault for .... what .... demanding honesty?

Your logic consistently both astounds and terrifies.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Yep... business as usual

said by Karl Bode:

Your logic consistently both astounds and terrifies.
»www.metacafe.com/watch/8 ··· _fright/

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium Member
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA

hopeflicker

Premium Member

Re: Yep... business as usual

said by FFH5:
said by Karl Bode:

Your logic consistently both astounds and terrifies.
»www.metacafe.com/watch/8 ··· _fright/
OMG!!! stop the press.
TK posts a link to copyrighted material!!

Ohhh the humanity
viperlmw
Premium Member
join:2005-01-25

viperlmw to Karl Bode

Premium Member

to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode:

It wasn't the average consumer demanding it. They weren't affected and were not aware of any problem. It was the well above average abusers demanding the clarification and a hard cap.
A strawman point and completely irrelevant. A significant number of customers, the Florida Attorney General and the FCC have proven Comcast was lying to customers, yet here you are, claiming whatever happens is those customers fault for .... what .... demanding honesty?

Your logic consistently both astounds and terrifies.
Karl, you don't understand. You are being painted as 'elitist', by being a "well above average" user. It's the only way they can sell their goods, by fear. Fear of the elite. Fear of taxes. Fear of regulations. Fear of equality. Make the other guy scary. That's how decisions are made by some. 'I can't win by being right, I'll win with FEAR'

funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

2 recommendations

funchords to FFH5

MVM

to FFH5
said by FFH5:
said by Karl Bode:

Yes Tom, it's consumers who demand clarity and accountability that are the problem. Clearly.
It wasn't the average consumer demanding it. They weren't affected and were not aware of any problem. It was the well above average abusers demanding the clarification and a hard cap. Well now they get to pay for what they wanted and got.
Dave Winer was an abuser? How so?

There's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that anyone who has been kicked off of the service abused it.

It was the top 1,000 users of bandwidth. This list was from across the system, not just from nodes with trouble reports, or highly-congested segments, or from observed complaints from other systems to the abuse@comcast desk! The only thing that kind of system protects is Comcast's loss from such a consumer -- and that's perfectly fine, but it has to be disclosed.

There was nothing in the TOS that covered kicking off users for being one of the top 1,000 users of bandwidth. Comcast didn't even check if they interfered with or impacted anybody == so they can't use that excuse.

SpaethCo
Digital Plumber
MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

SpaethCo

MVM

Re: Yep... business as usual

said by funchords:

Dave Winer was an abuser? How so?
He was warned weeks before they cut him off, and he's clearly tapped into online news to have drawn a reasonable conclusion about what the caps were.

True, Comcast official comments to him about usage were vague, but he would have needed to have been living in a cave (which is contradictory to his tech-savvy persona) to have not seen enough data to reasonably estimate the caps.

IMO, this one is a stalemate.

funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

funchords

MVM

Re: Yep... business as usual

said by SpaethCo:
said by funchords:

Dave Winer was an abuser? How so?
He was warned weeks before they cut him off, [...]

IMO, this one is a stalemate.
I agree that a warning does help, but it doesn't color Dave Winer as an abuser.

splat1622
@direcpc.com

1 recommendation

splat1622

Anon

Re: Yep... business as usual

if he was using over 250gb he was abusing it

JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium Member
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD

2 recommendations

JTRockville to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
No one I've seen ever demanded a cap. The plea was, that IF there is a cap, it shouldn't be super-secret.
Expand your moderator at work

funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

2 edits

funchords to FFH5

MVM

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

And instead of 1,000/mo of the very worst abusers getting booted, Comcast gets to boot many many more
No. You've got it wrong.

Read both the Comcast website and the Florida agreement and then you'll see that it's BOTH, not either/or.

The language in the Florida AG settlement document is
2. Comcast may continue to notify any residential high speed Internet service subscriber whose bandwidth usage use exceeds the Threshold (as determined by Comcast in its sole discretion) that the subscriber's service may be, or will be, terminated as the result of excessive use. However, no residential high speed Internet service subscriber shall be notified of a breach of Comcast's excessive use restrictions unless the subscriber's bandwidth usage exceeds the previously disclosed Threshold.
The "top users" language from the Comcast page:
This is the same system we have in place today. The only difference is that we will now provide a limit by which a customer may be contacted. As part of our pre-existing policy, we will continue to contact the top users of our high-speed Internet service and ask them to curb their usage. If a customer uses more than 250 GB and is one of the top users of our service, he or she may be contacted by Comcast to notify them of excessive use. At that time, we'll tell them exactly how much data per month they had used. We know from experience the vast majority of customers we ask to curb usage do so voluntarily.

badtrip
Premium Member
join:2004-03-20

badtrip to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

So say around Dec 1 or thereabouts, we can start reading all the woeful stories about how "I was not an abuser, but just an advanced user backing up my terabytes of disk storage".
Although you are being somewhat sarcastic, that is truly what we will start seeing. I have no idea how much bandwidth my household uses but I can tell you its probably alot with 3 ppl , two who telecommute and a teenager.

If the company I work for treated it's customers with the same contempt that Comcast treats their customers, we'd be out of business fast. Lucky for Comcast they have a near monopoly and don't have to worry about "satisfied customers".
I pos rep
join:2008-08-22

I pos rep to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

said by Matt3:

This is not surprising at all and exactly what most people thought was going on.
And the "WE THE PEOPLE" crowd are now getting what they demanded - an announced & marketed hard cap. And instead of 1,000/mo of the very worst abusers getting booted, Comcast gets to boot many many more within a couple months of Oct 1(new rules give an extra 30 days beyond 1st month before termination). So say around Dec 1 or thereabouts, we can start reading all the woeful stories about how "I was not an abuser, but just an advanced user backing up my terabytes of disk storage".

Moral of story: "Beware of what you wish for - you may get it."
The cap is by far better than kicking people without giving an explanation of acceptable usage. Nobody told me when I signed up with Comcast I could not use 6 petabytes a day if I wanted. Therefore they should not even have the right to kick them off in the first place. I hate all these TOS that are vague and give the corporation unlimited rights. "We can boot you because we shoved a dick up our ass and feel like it" should not be allowed period. At least now the consumers actually know about the limits and can choose whether or not to support that company.

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium Member
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA

1 edit

hopeflicker

Premium Member

Greed!

Capitalism breeds greed. People just dont like to admit it.

That's what happening within Comcast.

••••••••••••••

c64
join:2008-07-31
Lansdale, PA

c64

Member

comcrap

just florida!they been shoveling the bull for over 30yrs.
ctggzg
Premium Member
join:2005-02-11
USA

ctggzg

Premium Member

Only 1,000?

They should boot at least the top 1%.
HeavyC
join:2004-03-31

HeavyC

Member

Re: Only 1,000?

Then after you booth that top 1%, boot the top 1% again. Just rinse and repeat. They'll have a really easy to manage network before too long....there will be no traffic on it.

banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
Premium Member
join:2001-08-18
Frisco, TX

banditws6

Premium Member

Re: Only 1,000?

said by HeavyC:

Then after you booth that top 1%, boot the top 1% again. Just rinse and repeat. They'll have a really easy to manage network before too long....there will be no traffic on it.
That's what I was thinking...at what point does the cull stop? If you keep skimming 1,000 off the top, eventually you'd think the top value would be lower than it was before. Unless each month a new 1,000 people appear and use just as much as the previous 1,000.

Sith HMP
I Did What?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-25
Bloomington, IL

2 recommendations

Sith HMP

Premium Member

Clarity

I get it now. If they can afford to just throw away 1000 customers every month with out blinking an eye, I now understand why they could care less about fixing any of my service issues. Thanks a lot Insight for handing me over to these tools.
azjerry
join:2002-12-04
Phoenix, AZ

azjerry

Member

Interesting policy

Given enough time they would boot every last user.

equalrights2008

Anon

Re: Interesting policy

actually, they'll leave the ones that pay and use nothing, or check 2-3 emails a month and charge them 45 a month to use it. It is really that simple, the users that pay for a lot but use very little is their target demographics. Its like selling a all you can eat dinner, and hoping that people only fill their plates 1/3 full and never go back for seconds. THOSE are the ones they'll keep. Anyone to sits and eats "all he/she can eat" is the "top abusers" - funny how they label the top "unlimited users" for using "unlimited' as "abusers" isn't it?
DarkEnigma
join:2005-09-13
Beecher, IL

DarkEnigma

Member

curius

would constant gaming lead up to 250gb worth of data transfer in a month,or also video streaming(youtube), online radios video steams, stuff like that

••••••••••

Dogfather
Premium Member
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Dogfather

Premium Member

And we're supposed to believe anything these ISPs say

Comcast lying, Bell Canada lying...and we're supposed to believe any claims coming from them.

This is evidence that nothing they say is to be believed and the burden of proof (eg that they're having capacity problems) is on them.

Everything they say must be assumed a lie.

•••••••

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

jmn1207

Premium Member

Florida Consumer Laws are Tough

Florida has very strict consumer protection laws in place. Many businesses have to keep separate terms and conditions for Florida, and another set that covers all of the other states. What are we at now, at least 20 states?

GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium Member
join:2001-10-29
Indianapolis, IN

GlobalMind

Premium Member

Re: Florida Consumer Laws are Tough

said by jmn1207:

Florida has very strict consumer protection laws in place. Many businesses have to keep separate terms and conditions for Florida, and another set that covers all of the other states. What are we at now, at least 20 states?
True, although they seem to get employed more often when we've got storms like Ike heading this way to avoid price gouging afterwards.

mod_wastrel
anonome
join:2008-03-28

mod_wastrel

Member

Hmmm...

So, all Comcast has ever really had to do to be seen as "compliant" is to provide some method of feedback to let customers know where they stand with their usage... like a ranking somewhere on your account pages (updated daily), or, now, by providing some kind of meter to let you know how much (they say) you've used.

And, yet, they can't even do that. "What we have here... is a failure to communicate."

•••

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

Robert

Premium Member

And this is good how?

$150,000 dollar fine and who is going to pay? We, the customers.

When will the government realize that these fines to large companies like Comcast only hurt the customer, not them. They pass the buck to us.

I'm sure the AG is very proud.

•••••••••••••

NOZIREV
join:2008-07-10
New Bedford, MA

NOZIREV

Member

No matter what isp's do

there will always be the few that are not happy even with the clear 250 gig cap. Guess what if you are unhappy with that pay the extra money and go somewhere else and get what you pay for. 250 gig's is fair and reasonable for 42.95$ DEAL WITH IT or go somewhere else.

Scree
In the pipe 5 by 5
join:2001-04-24
Mount Laurel, NJ

1 edit

Scree

Member

funny

comcast has been misleading since the beginning. I remember shortly after they changed from @Home and implemented the pathetic loss-of-value speed decreases, the upload speed was 128 kbps. Yet they were running ads showing a father and son playing an online game together and video chatting! OK, the game was just a boxing game, but the video was too big and looked too good to be on 128 kbps. lol That ad didn't last too long.

••••••

ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

ninjatutle

Member

Nice to see what my area's price hike is going to

»Comcast Video-Only Subscribers See Rate Hike [58] comments

We're getting raped over here to pay for the crummy east coast
justgold79
join:2008-01-13

justgold79

Member

start with a low throttle and keep upping it!

I will say what I've always said: When you get a new isp, throttle your dl speed well below their radar, say for example, 10% of your maximum. Then, each week, add a few KBps to your maximum speed. This will keep you well below their radar. If everyone does this then the greedy bastards will be forced to upgrade their backbone accordingly or get rid of their customers.

pah user
@comcast.net

pah user

Anon

How about this as stupid

I wrote to the contact us section about comments and concerns on Comcast.com, regarding the 250gb caps implementation. Whomever got the message, forwarded it to the local co. in my hometown. I actually got a call from the supervisory techs in my hometown, asking why they got this memo about 250gb caps forwarded to their office. The local folks were nice, but they didn't understand why they got that kind of message. Like the local techs have ANYTHING to do with those caps? How ignorant. Comcast is there for the customer all right...not.

Mannus
Premium Member
join:2005-10-25
Fort Wayne, IN

2 edits

Mannus

Premium Member

Caps? What caps?

My self-imposed trial limit of 450 GB's.

•••

SLD
Premium Member
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

SLD

Premium Member

Funny!

"You can also thank tough Florida consumer protection laws."

LOL!!! Ha ha hahaha hehe hahaha!

iEvolution
join:2006-06-24
Ogden, UT

iEvolution

Member

Re: Funny!

So what happens if you hit these caps? Your service gets cut off or do they just drastically reduce your speeds?

BIGtimber
@comcast.net

1 recommendation

BIGtimber

Anon

anti-competitive

Isn't it obvious what Comcast is really doing? They see the usefulness of high speed connections and how they will allow people to view TV and movies on demand. They don't like this as it cuts into their cable profits. Hence they are capping the service to cripple the usage of IPTV and better promote there crappy old delivery system, ie. cable.

It's all just a big anti-competitive ploy being disguised as a CAP!

Randal
@comcast.net

Randal

Anon

voting with my feet - hello qwest dsl

Hello qwest same speed at half the price no caps and no throttling!

Voting with my feet.

So long Comcast.

legal_beagle
@sbcglobal.net

legal_beagle

Anon

Comcast Acceptable Use Policy (AUP)

»www.comcast.net/terms/use/
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